00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.12.26 02:36:56 --- join: iyzsong joined #forth 04:15:29 --- quit: smokeink (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 04:27:22 --- join: learning joined #forth 04:32:45 --- quit: learning () 04:35:24 --- join: smokeink joined #forth 05:07:16 --- quit: iyzsong (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:07:37 --- quit: smokeink (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:46:28 --- join: X-Scale joined #forth 06:02:46 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 08:00:12 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 09:34:49 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:03:24 --- join: ryke joined #forth 11:18:15 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 11:50:13 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 12:40:32 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 14:57:32 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 15:03:41 --- quit: ryke (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:04:04 --- join: ryke joined #forth 15:20:21 --- join: Tony_Sidaway joined #forth 15:28:53 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 15:34:49 --- join: tabemann joined #forth 16:25:43 --- quit: Tony_Sidaway (Quit: Tony_Sidaway) 16:46:55 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 16:50:08 --- nick: jedb_ -> jedb 16:53:48 --- join: smokeink joined #forth 17:01:09 --- join: ryke joined #forth 17:36:13 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 17:50:28 hey guys 17:50:48 hey tabemann 17:51:23 I'm annoyed that the robot I got my daughter doesn't work properly 17:51:43 it was supposed to work with the Acer Chromebook 15, which my daughter has 17:51:58 but it was forcing me to update the firmware, but firmware updating wasn't working 17:51:59 made in china ? 17:52:00 so 17:52:18 cheap and nasty ? 17:52:30 the parts could be originally made in china, but I suspect the company which made it is not chinese per se 17:52:47 I was able to update the firmware with my android phone 17:52:55 so now it works - with my android phone 17:53:06 but my daughter's chrome doesn't see it 17:53:16 whereas it previously did see it 17:54:32 okay, Wonder Workship is based out of San Mateo, CA 17:54:43 CA being California, not Canada 17:56:57 * tabemann at one time thought that *.ca in domain names referred to California, and wondered why California had a TLD 17:58:10 haha 17:58:53 I have some android NXP micro dev kit Ive never used 17:59:40 it's nicely made, but the whole android thing failed to excite me and this kit needs registration etc 18:00:03 android is a pain the ass to code for 18:00:15 Id run it bare metal but the NXP flash isnt Mecrisp-Stellaris friendly so no Forth for it 18:01:27 I'm playing with a STM32F4 Forth right now called "FishForth" and will be flashing it to a F4 shortly 18:01:48 it looks reasonable, I want to compare it's code size etc 18:02:26 it's circa 2014 but has xon/xoff which is intersting 18:02:31 when you say "STM32F4" do you imply that it is less than portable? 18:04:49 --- quit: remexre (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 18:06:11 ? 18:06:29 it's binary size is pretty small also = 16884 bytes 18:06:47 it's specifically for the STM32F40xx 18:07:33 Forths aren't usually 'portable' in the embedded world as I understand the meaning of 'portable' 18:09:03 back 18:09:36 tp: what I mean is that mecrisp-stellaris is portable in the sense that it can be readily ported to any Cortex-M chip 18:10:35 that depends on the chip 18:11:01 there may be a substantial amount of work involved depending on the chip hardware 18:33:47 ok, go fish in BASE 10d 18:34:29 FISH ARM STM32F407VG DISCO RM V1.6 (C)2014 A-TEAM FORTH : Nov 24 2014 at 16:40:05 18:36:16 FISH is a modernized F83-ish standard. FISH is richly featured: FLASH_SAVE 18:36:16 of code in Ram, a reserved RUN turnkey word, single and multi-line comments 18:36:17 and a slimmed down categorized dictionary are some highlights of it's intention to 18:36:17 support application development on modern ARM 32bit micro-controllers. 18:36:40 https://www.mediafire.com/folder/6fqkfykcel80s//FISH%20Forth 18:37:22 FISH most closely resembles the F83 FORTH model. FISH is modernized with 18:37:23 ANS standard behavior and words where useful. Most differences are quite 18:37:23 minor. If you have used Forth before, then here is a short list of words that have 18:37:23 slightly different names from other dialects: 18:37:25 MINUS is now NEGATE 18:37:27 DMINUS is now DNEGATE 18:37:29 VLIST is now WORDS 18:37:31 ?TERMINAL is now ?KEY 18:43:40 i change INVERT to NOT 18:44:04 cos it's silly 18:44:45 hey 18:45:08 hi tabemann 18:45:13 g'day dave0 18:45:16 hi tp 18:45:31 Mecrisp-Stellaris uses NOT 18:45:47 I prefer invert myself 18:46:03 I have a question 18:46:09 but NOT is only 3 chars, so it's easier to type :) 18:46:20 how the heck does Mecrisp-Stellaris handle IMMEDIATE? 18:46:32 because ; completes compilation of a word 18:46:36 how would I know, I'm just a USER 18:46:46 and IMMEDIATE can occur in their any place else after it 18:47:05 well you have far more experience with Mecrisp-Stellaris than I do 18:47:35 I've never used IMMEDIATE, thats a programmer word ;-) 18:48:41 I hope to use it one day when I understand why I need it, I know it makes a Word execute immediately when used inside a definition ? 18:50:48 it makes a word execute immediately no matter where it is used 18:51:13 ahh 18:51:38 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 18:52:51 fishforth has no 'see' sadly 19:00:20 see, from looking at your example code, mecrisp-stellaris puts the IMMEDIATE after then ; 19:00:55 and I don't know how that's possible 19:03:53 it does 19:08:34 --- join: rdrop-exit joined #forth 19:10:31 Hello Fortharium dwellers c[] 19:12:37 g'day Forthling, I've been playing with a cortex-n Forth called "fishforth" 19:12:43 cortex-m 19:12:50 hi tp! 19:13:05 Never heard of "fishforth", cool 19:13:11 it's circa 2014, all CAPS 19:13:23 I haddnt until yesterday 19:13:32 it's pretty basic compared to Mecrisp-Stellaris 19:14:02 but it is only 18kB in size which isnt bad 19:14:16 and only the binary is distributed, no source 19:14:39 No source? ick 19:15:36 hehe, yeah and distributed via mediafire.com (spammers) 19:16:23 it's no use to me, Im just interested in the performance and operation 19:17:19 I'm downloading the docs now 19:17:58 FISH ARM STM32F407VG DISCO RM V1.6 (C)2014 A-TEAM FORTH : Nov 24 2014 at 16:40:05 19:18:01 "FISH is ideal for learning Agile and Object Oriented Software Development, the best disciplines in the industry." 19:18:08 hmmm 19:18:23 awesome! OO at last, Im SAVED! 19:18:31 I think I'll pass ;-) 19:19:02 but.... you can gave 'the best disciplines in the industry' ! 19:19:18 are't you interested in the *best* ? 19:19:42 I'm not a disciplinarian :) 19:19:56 lol 19:21:01 Id be really struggling with this Forth if I wanted to make anything 19:21:59 --- quit: dddddd (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 19:22:14 "FISH most closely resembles the F83 FORTH model." 19:22:29 So it's probably an ITC Forth 19:25:24 it's only the second reasonable cortex-M Forth Ive seen 19:27:28 but no new releases since 2014 ? I think it's dead 19:27:46 One of the files is copyright 2018 19:28:30 dying, has a terminal disease ? 19:29:59 As long as he uses it, it's not dead 19:30:43 is he using it with the last update in 2018 ? 19:30:47 I doubt it 19:31:19 i think it's possibly a failed commercial venture 19:32:19 No idea 19:32:22 anyway, I had a look, It's ok but not for me 19:33:15 a new Mecrisp-Stellaris user was complaining that his very long word was returning the "jump too far" error, but that fishforth didnt 19:33:27 which is why I looked 19:34:24 perhaps he's writing overlong words 19:35:39 absolutely 19:35:44 he's not self-disciplined enough ;) 19:35:51 A FORTH BEGINNER 19:35:54 oops 19:36:07 (using caps only on fishforth) 19:37:16 he added more and more lines until the "jump too far" error occured. I have the impression he believes that Mecrisp-Stellaris should be able to handle any code he throws at it 19:38:48 "I have tried the same test file on Fishforth using the same hardware and had no problem with 128 lines of code within the loop." 19:39:36 He has no clue that he doesn't have a clue 19:40:24 I always aim for 128 lines of code in every Word, I like my words to totally fill my screen 19:41:03 "big is better" she said .... while looking at my wallet 19:42:25 each of the 128 lines of code is the same ... 19:42:33 He's a He's a Wiggins 19:43:36 DO 19:43:37 I . CR 19:43:37 Q 1 CELLS + @ Q 2 CELLS + +! 19:43:37 Q 1 CELLS + @ Q 2 CELLS + +! 19:43:39 etc 19:44:29 well they seem to attract each other then 19:44:38 Wiggins tend to bury themselves in their self-imposed mess 19:45:11 now I have another one who also finds this 'problem' ("jump too far") 'very annoying' 19:46:08 "doctor when I get the "jump too far" error it hurts? " 19:49:59 These sorts come and go, the Forth way is not for them 19:51:03 I think you may be right 19:51:55 interestingly both are windows users 19:52:04 ... just sayin 19:52:22 As my father used to say "you can't get blood out of a rock" 19:59:45 The threshold test is Thinking Forth 20:00:47 If they're still a Wiggins after reading it, then you'll never get through to them 20:13:41 I'm not sure they have made it thru "learning forth" yet 20:14:26 Starting Forth? 20:14:29 new user #2 finished with this little jem 20:14:33 I am a "forther" (on and off) from way back, 1980's, and still use a Rockwell R65F12AQ (forth in ROM ) board from that era. This is my first try at a 32 bit embedded forth, so I am probably in for some surprises. 20:15:01 oops, "starting forth" 20:17:25 Rockwell R65F, cool 20:17:26 lol Forth is good for learning Agile and OO? anyone care to disagree? 20:18:00 Forth was "agile" before anyone coined the term 20:18:12 I have no idea what Agile and OO are, so I cant comment 20:18:56 That's definitely not what they mean by agile :) 20:19:28 who's they? 20:19:40 rdrop-exit, I actually built all the hardware for a large 65F11 project back in 1987,but I had no idea what Forth was, tho I knew it was used on the chip 20:20:33 cool 20:20:38 the programmers that worked on it knew hardware and software thoroughly, I was very impressed 20:25:38 I remember when people started talking about "Extreme Programming" which seemed to me a rehash of Forth ways 20:26:55 (at least at the start) 20:27:17 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 20:29:19 I hate buzzwords 20:31:17 me too, mainly because they attempt to flood an ocean of meaning into a couple of drops of water 20:33:18 vacuous 20:34:39 "In short, what we have here is a veritable orgy of vacuous generalities and meaningless slogans." 20:36:14 using deep emotive words 20:36:16 lol 20:36:27 :)) 20:36:30 rdrop-exit, where is that quote from 20:36:52 Thats hillarious :D 20:37:02 Oh that reminds me 20:37:16 OED 20:37:56 my understanding of the work 'Agile' was forever cemented in my mind by a lovely 5'3 blonde lady named 'Mary' 20:38:01 I don't know who the OED is quoting on that, good question 20:38:25 -> https://www.atrixnet.com/bs-generator.html :D 20:38:53 :)) 20:39:23 Gotta be able to efficiently aggregate sustainable methodologies 20:39:38 Coupled on the back of the ability to intrinsically maintain exceptional value 20:40:03 While simultaneously proactively restore top-line intellectual capital 20:40:19 And globally initiate business manufactured products going forward. 20:40:22 Its billiant! 20:40:41 Feed that to management and they will wet their pants 20:42:25 Show me the money!!! 21:23:32 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 21:59:42 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Quit: Lost terminal) 23:46:40 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 23:58:33 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/19.12.26