00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.12.17 00:01:33 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 00:02:46 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 00:20:59 --- quit: smokeink (Remote host closed the connection) 00:22:08 --- join: smokeink joined #forth 01:02:58 --- join: crc_ joined #forth 01:03:21 --- join: reepca` joined #forth 01:03:27 --- join: CORDIC joined #forth 01:03:40 --- join: arrdem_ joined #forth 01:03:46 --- join: mjl_ joined #forth 01:03:58 --- join: guan_ joined #forth 01:11:07 --- quit: smokeink (*.net *.split) 01:11:08 --- quit: reepca (*.net *.split) 01:11:08 --- quit: DKordic (*.net *.split) 01:11:08 --- quit: deesix (*.net *.split) 01:11:08 --- quit: jackdaniel (*.net *.split) 01:11:09 --- quit: dne (*.net *.split) 01:11:10 --- quit: djinni (*.net *.split) 01:11:10 --- quit: lonjil (*.net *.split) 01:11:10 --- quit: fiddlerwoaroof (*.net *.split) 01:11:11 --- quit: arrdem (*.net *.split) 01:11:11 --- quit: gabc (*.net *.split) 01:11:11 --- quit: crc (*.net *.split) 01:11:11 --- quit: alex4nder (*.net *.split) 01:11:11 --- quit: mjl (*.net *.split) 01:11:11 --- quit: guan (*.net *.split) 01:11:11 --- nick: arrdem_ -> arrdem 01:11:18 --- join: djinni_ joined #forth 01:11:21 --- nick: guan_ -> guan 01:11:26 --- nick: mjl_ -> mjl 01:16:58 --- join: smokeink joined #forth 01:18:06 --- join: dne joined #forth 01:57:30 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 02:02:03 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 02:50:41 --- join: iyzsong joined #forth 03:23:24 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 03:29:37 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 04:04:02 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Quit: Lost terminal) 04:25:32 --- quit: iyzsong (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in) 04:33:23 --- join: crab1 joined #forth 04:37:43 Hey, I want to make a word actor that will let me say "actor name address f" which creates a word : name f ; and then executes name, I get how to do all of this except I don't know how to get name safely on the stack before I use "create" so that I can execute the new word at the end. 04:37:54 can anyone help? I am using gforth 04:48:23 IMHO gforth is a big part of the problem ;) . 04:50:03 It is even below version 1.0... for 20 or 30 years now? 04:50:35 I am not a gforth fan, I admit 04:50:38 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 04:50:46 eventually I will write my own forth 04:51:13 that one will probably be quite untraditional though, and for now I use gforth 04:51:14 http://www.pigdog.org/auto/electro_diddle/link/784.html 04:54:02 well look at that 04:59:00 I don't understand Your question... is "": example ." OK " ; latestXT execute"" related? 04:59:35 And what's the address? 05:05:55 actor is going to be a concurrent creature that waits for messages from other actors and sends new messages after processing with f. address is what another actor needs to send to in order to talk with a given actor. the new function name won't just be : name f ; it will be more like : name addr f thread ; where thread is something I need to create yet 05:34:25 --- quit: smokeink (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 06:05:54 --- join: dddddd joined #forth 06:25:39 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: Leaving) 06:41:43 crab1: try something like this: 06:41:45 : actor : bl word drop ' compile, postpone ; latestxt execute ; 06:41:50 --- nick: crc_ -> crc 06:42:11 --- mode: ChanServ set +v crc 06:44:51 --- join: f-a joined #forth 07:04:59 --- quit: tp (Remote host closed the connection) 07:05:07 --- join: tp joined #forth 07:11:24 I will 07:16:46 --- quit: crab1 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 07:28:12 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 07:35:24 given an input like: actor foo 123 . this will compile the same as : foo . ; foo 07:38:56 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 08:48:21 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 08:58:28 --- join: crab1 joined #forth 09:03:07 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 09:04:24 --- quit: crab1 (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 10:54:47 --- join: crab1 joined #forth 11:12:57 --- quit: f-a (Quit: leaving) 11:21:01 --- quit: crab1 (Quit: WeeChat 2.6) 11:31:19 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 12:02:50 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 12:06:17 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 12:17:10 --- join: ryke joined #forth 12:33:35 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 14:18:58 --- join: jedb_ joined #forth 14:18:58 --- quit: jedb (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:02:15 --- nick: netmonk -> hegemoOn 15:02:31 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 15:26:09 --- quit: ryke (Quit: ryke) 15:26:25 --- join: ryke joined #forth 15:31:40 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 16:08:44 g'day Forthlings! 16:09:25 hello Forthlings from the land of heat and bushfires :) 16:14:34 Hi tp 16:15:19 g'day crc 16:19:25 I've had 14 downloads of my bootable (forth) ninary to test the STM32F103C8 chips so far, 28% from australia and 64% using Windows OS 16:19:33 ninary = binary 16:20:12 How long has the binary been up? 16:23:20 about 3 days 16:23:54 was about 10 in the first 12 hrs 16:24:24 it's pretty specialised just to test one type of mcu 16:25:10 Ive also submitted the project to Hackaday, but who knows if they'll take it 16:25:45 Ive had a couple of projects published at Hackaday over the years and a few rejects all Forth based 16:26:42 but hackaday had a massive readership so I hope they publish this one 16:28:23 I've never spent much time on hackaday, but that's probably because I don't do much hardware based stuff 16:28:55 Hackaday is (in my opinion) beyond pathetic so I never read it thesedays 16:29:04 but lots do 16:29:49 it's all about IoT and generally the most useless, boring, pointless projects I have ever seen in my entire life 16:30:46 hackaday targets a audience I don't understand and have nothing in common with I guess 16:32:18 for instance they seem to love nixie clocks etc, as tho nixie tubes are somehow special. I grew up wit nixies, I loathe them 16:33:06 gimmee a modern OLED hires display anyday 16:36:12 todays hackaday projects include: A Nixie Radio Clock Fit For A Victorian Mad Scientist, a clock that tells Mars time, Stupid SSH Tricks 16:36:36 and some cleverly placed adverts posing as projects 16:37:03 Nothing interesting in that list 16:38:12 I'f you've never spent much time on Hackaday it's probably because you looked at it once, wasn't impressed and went back to making useful things 16:39:15 That could well be 16:39:27 My last rejected submission was about a tethered Forth for MSP30 chips, it's pretty awesome, another Matthias Koch creation 16:39:56 --- quit: Kumool (*.net *.split) 16:40:29 apart from the readership killing qualities of anything Forth, I doubt the Hackaday reviewer understood a word I wrote 16:42:03 --- join: Kumool joined #forth 16:42:28 bbl, off to a Xmas party 16:44:11 Have fun 16:50:10 --- join: ryke joined #forth 17:45:27 --- join: tabemann joined #forth 17:59:10 tp, ninary = base 9? 18:05:54 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18:15:56 What would 76 be from ninary to decimal? 18:25:29 7*9+6 18:26:13 Hmm 18:26:22 Yeah but like what would that be 18:38:53 --- join: jedb__ joined #forth 18:39:40 (76)_9=(7*9^1+6*9^0)_10=(63+6)_10=(69)_10 18:41:36 --- quit: jedb_ (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 18:42:01 ayyyyy 18:43:43 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 19:44:08 yeah hackaday isn't very interesting even to me that's a hardware noob. none of them feel like hacks but just 'wow i made a cool project' 19:44:29 though there was a discussion where a bunch of them decided that writing your pin number on your credit card was fine 19:44:54 as long as it had a secret number you added to each digit that was based on the card number or something stupid 19:50:25 --- join: tabemann joined #forth 19:51:05 I don't see whats wrong with showing projects you made 19:51:26 You getting into hardware stuff tho Jookia ? 19:51:40 hey guys 19:51:56 Hello there 19:52:10 jsoft: yeah a little 19:52:18 Jookia, what kind of things ? 19:52:40 i dunno. very basic things. trying to solder and draw schematics and make stuff 19:53:24 Whatchya working on now ? 20:01:47 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 20:14:09 uh, nothing atm 20:14:24 was going to write an arduino forth in C 20:16:59 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 20:26:54 my direct threaded forth in C turns out to be fundamentally broken so i'm going to have to make a VM or something and compile a forth in it 20:33:00 MrMobius, LOL 20:34:03 jsoft, you wouldn't you plebeian ! 20:36:07 Jookia, why not write a Arduino C in Forth > 20:36:09 ? 20:36:51 --- join: rdrop-exit joined #forth 20:37:25 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 20:37:56 tp: write an arduino C in Forth? FFI is the main issue. i gotta have those arduino libs 20:38:33 hello Forthwrights :) 20:38:42 Jookia, but the arduino libs only work for limited arduino stuff 20:38:55 Jookia, its actually not too hard tow write your own libs. 20:38:56 rdrop-exit, g'day Zen Forth Guru! 20:39:32 likewise Forth Master Technician (tm)! 20:39:35 Jookia, and given arduino has all sorts of weird things going on, it would probably be a lot easier to just do it all in forth, no arduino libs 20:39:47 Jookia, don't listen to jsoft because he steals all his libs from poor underpaid sweat shop child library writers! 20:40:02 tp, I would not what ? 20:40:04 it's unclear if i can write an arduino project in assembly and have the arduino IDE flash it 20:40:35 Libraries? Bah humbug ;) 20:40:52 Jookia, why bother ? If youre doing assembly you don't need *anything* arduino 20:41:29 And while your at it, why not just not use arduino all together :P 20:41:33 tp: i want the arduino IDE so i can switch to non-forth things 20:41:38 yeah this is why i didn't talk about it here :v 20:41:48 :)) 20:42:15 Jookia, It's only light jabs, I doubt anyone here actually minds 20:42:35 we won't hold it against you 20:42:45 libraries: are just piles of definitions and functions/methods stacked together. 20:43:26 yeah the problem is that if i buy a peripheral that's meant for use with an arduino i need to run some example program to actually test the peripheral works 20:43:33 since the peripherals never come with proper documentation 20:43:39 Jookia, you mean a 'sheild' or whatever ? 20:43:47 Jookia, actually ... you won't get hassled here, Forth people are the most accepting programmers I have ever met 20:44:15 jsoft: no, so in the case of a project i'm making- an ultrasonic sensor. it sends pings and gets pongs and you have to triangulate it or something to get a distance 20:44:23 it comes with example arduino code and that's it 20:44:45 Jookia, ahh right. Those are pretty universal 20:45:17 so without documentation i don't really want to just be debugging my code as well as hardware to know if it's working 20:45:58 most the atmega328p forths require overwriting the arduino bootloader which is fair for a forth, but not really what i'd like 20:46:00 Jookia, Up to you :) Have you done much uC programming before ? 20:46:16 jookia, you have a point, but consider this ; "Arduino peripherals" all have libraries, that's true. However there are only a small number of Arduino peripherals" and a vast number of 'peripherals' that have no Arduino LIbrary 20:46:40 jsoft: nope! 20:46:49 don't bother with undocumented hardware 20:47:13 basically the Arduino ecosystem is small and controlled by the sellers of "arduino peripherals" 20:47:22 Jookia, ok. Well arduino 'sheilds' and all that are just normal hardware, with a PCB which fits into an arduino. And someone wrote a library for it. You can google the chip on the shield, and write your own library if you wanted to 20:47:29 tp: yeah so the other issue is that if i have an issue i'm going to have to ask the arduino people for help and they'll be like 'wtf is forth' 20:47:32 It's how the arduino librarys were written 20:47:35 so Arduino people operate in a very small "walled garden" 20:48:10 jookia, firstly if you do Forth the first rule is you NEVER ask for HELP! 20:48:19 AKA "straight jacket" 20:48:33 lol I have no shame in asking for forth help :D 20:48:34 if you have to ask for help, go back to arduino and stay there forever 20:48:50 jsoft, thats only because you have NO SHAME! 20:49:02 That's what I just said :P 20:49:05 hahah 20:49:11 jsoft: yeah, this isn't a shield, it's a peripheral with a TX/RX/GND/5V and example arduino code on how to use it. there's no documentation for it, and googling the chips shows that it's just some stm32 stuff so it's firmware that i don't have access to that's driving it, and the actual ultrasonic chip has no number on it so im not sure what's up with that 20:49:20 i didn't check digi-key for any ultrasonic chips though 20:49:21 a man with a machine gun need have no shame! 20:49:56 Jookia, do you have a picture of the gizmo? I think I have might have a bag full 20:50:23 Jookia, I started doing Forth in 2014, but electronics in 1968 and I can assure you that you don't need any help 20:50:28 Jookia, I made some sensors a while ago which used them to measure the volume of water in a water tank 20:51:18 Jookia, the answers to all your questions are in the data sheets, by asking people you actually waste time 20:51:23 And iic it was with an avr, but no arduino libs 20:51:29 jsoft: https://wiki.dfrobot.com/Weather_-_proof_Ultrasonic_Sensor_with_Separate_Probe_SKU___SEN0208 20:51:59 hahahahahahaah 'weatherproof! Ultrasonic_Sensor!!!!! 20:52:10 boy have I got a bridge to sell you! 20:52:25 oh i found https://cdn.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Sensors/Proximity/HCSR04.pdf 20:52:43 but really there's not that much 20:53:11 Jookia, that code there is not using any special librarys 20:53:15 tp: oh, do you have a better solution? 20:53:16 Jookia, what are you trying to detect ? 20:53:21 And it literally shows how to drive it in the waveforms above 20:53:33 tp: distance 20:53:35 Jookia, probably, I spent a lifetime in industrial electronics 20:53:57 and the sensor needs to be rainproof 20:54:16 Jookia, whats the range of distance, resolution and medium ? 20:54:19 jsoft: yeah, using whatever arduino libs that i haven't written in a forth 20:54:26 Jookia, you simply set the trigger pin high for 10uS, and then time how long the echo pin stays high 20:54:28 tp: dunno 20:54:49 Jookia, without minimal specs you cant design anything 20:55:16 Jookia, You would have a lot of fun figuring that stuff out on your own, as it covers a lot of uC things. Like timers, basic GPIO stuff 20:55:31 well not on your own, but I mean in forth, with no pre-done code 20:55:33 jsoft: yep. but i'd rather just have something work first 20:55:37 Jookia, Ive replaced $700 industrial Ultrasonic sensors with my own gear in the past 20:55:56 Jookia, You have made it go on arduino it's self, I assume ? 20:55:59 jsoft, you the MAN dude! 20:56:15 tp, it says it right there in the thingy 20:56:27 jsoft: not yet, i still have to deal with it being 5v since i'm running on a 3v atmega328p 20:56:42 so i just grabbed some mosfets for that 20:56:49 Jookia, ahh ok, coolies 20:56:49 the $700 industrial hazardous environment sensors were lucky to last a year 20:56:56 Jookia, well thats a cool first project :D 20:57:13 Libraries? We don't need no stinkin' libraries! -- Treasure of the Arduino Madre 20:57:39 jsoft: yeah i guess 20:58:10 Jookia, Have your mosfets and things arrived ? 20:58:20 yep, i just have other stuff to do atm 20:58:27 Fairs enough 20:59:02 Jookia, the very best way to do your project is with the data sheet, a micro and Forth 20:59:08 Jookia, whatever ya do, stick at it, electronics is a very satisfying field.. and coupled with programming stuff, its satisfying squared 20:59:27 tp: again, i don't have a data sheet 20:59:29 it's definitely the hardest, but it's also the most valuable to you in the long run 20:59:51 Jookia, all you need to know was on that page you linked 21:00:11 jsoft: yeah, but that's not a data sheet as much as a protocol guide 21:00:24 Jookia, what else is there you need to know though ? 21:00:36 Jookia, there are datasheets for every component, it sounds like youre planning to use some cheap crap thats just thrown together for the Arduino Cargo Cult 21:00:44 Its got how to calculate the distance based of the ehco signal high time 21:01:03 jsoft: idk. how low i can run it. i would've prefered running it at 3.3v to avoid mosfets and a 3.3v->5v boost circuit 21:01:24 Jookia, you should listen carefully to jsoft, he really knows what hes talking about here 21:01:59 Jookia, It says 5V. 21:02:12 Jookia, It will probably be able tor run at 3.3v, but the results will be _shit_ 21:02:26 jsoft: yeah but it's unclear if i can lower it to 4.7v to avoid using the mosfets 21:02:27 Jookia, in fact jsoft can tell you how to do this in a way thats actually weatherproof, not pretend weatherproof like ultrasonics 21:02:28 I've tried that on some other ultra sonic thingys.. very inconsistent 21:02:55 ultrasonics are shit unless youre a Bat 21:03:34 Jookia, don't be scared of the mosfets :) 21:03:49 Jookia, for the echo output, you could just use two resistors though 21:03:49 jsoft: i'm not, but it's power consumption on a battery :( 21:04:02 Jookia, ahh ok 21:04:21 seen the latest F35 ultrasonic radar ? it can lock onto a 1m squared target at 200km .... oh wait! 21:04:32 Yeah that should all be ok. Ive made such sensors which last for half a year+ measuring at a frequency of like once per 5 minutes or so 21:05:04 Jookia, The thing you would want to do there, is have another 'P-Channel' mosfet, switch the power to the uC thing it's self. 21:05:10 sorry, the ultra sonic thing it's self. 21:05:38 So when you want to measure distance, you turn the power to the ultra sonic doofer on, measure, turn the power off, do whatever with the data, and go to sleep 21:05:42 i think i'll be using it too often for that 21:05:48 Jookia, how often ? 21:05:54 at least once a second 21:06:12 Jookia, what battery ? 21:06:29 just a 3.3v 2500mAh 21:06:35 Oh ok 21:06:41 Well at least that has some balls 21:06:49 Lemmie calcumalate some stuff 21:07:26 it's not meant to last more than 24 hours 21:07:30 for a charge 21:09:10 12 hours might be fine though, i dunno. it depends if it even is useful or works in the rain 21:09:48 and the dark, but ultrasonic should be fine for that 21:14:14 with turning on/off when not in use 21:18:18 * tp has just received one of these: https://www.seeedstudio.com/Wio-Lite-RISC-V-GD32VF103-p-4293.html 21:18:32 "Thoughts on Forth Programming" http://www.call-with-current-continuation.org/articles/forth.txt 21:18:36 Jookia, mate, that should last at least a month 21:19:35 Jookia, if you can use two 18650's in series, it might be easier design wise 21:19:38 jsoft, hows that LoRa dev going ? 21:20:04 tp, yeah I've got the modem working, but now I have to re-write the response parsing rubbish because china change the firmware 21:20:40 So yeah, its uploading data and what not. But it's all bodged up just to make sure it works, so now I have to make things proper 21:21:20 jsoft, using the python version of "expect" ? 21:21:49 im using a function I wrote called 'match prefix' 21:21:53 erm, match_prefix 21:22:29 and I essentially will be looping through, trying to match responses based on an array of expected responses. Then return an code indicated that response 21:22:44 were you thinking how youd do it in Forth at all ? 21:23:15 Kinda of yeah 21:23:32 yeah the TK/TCL 'expect' was used for that kind of thing for decades 21:23:45 Definately got frustrated with the annoying compile, flash, test, routine... 21:23:50 all query/response stuff 21:23:53 After the deluxe forth environment 21:23:54 jsoft: nice. i might end up just using arduino C code anyway if that's the simplest way to get the job done :P 21:24:15 jsoft, yeah, too much Forth spoils a guy 21:24:20 Jookia, yep why not. Worry about forth perhaps once the actual electronics works :) 21:24:45 yep. chances are if the prototype is even useful i'd make a ton of changes and maybe try and make an actual PCB 21:25:13 Jookia, that is a lot of fun too. A point to note, is the regulator on the arduino boards, IIRC, are quite terrible 21:25:35 Jookia, so if you made your own PCB, you could put a much more efficient one on there, and save more battery power 21:26:33 jsoft: yeah, i'm actually using an adafruit board that supports a battery connection so it can charge over USB, but it's really not ideal in a lot of ways. that and having a 5v boost convertor in the mix 21:26:39 Jookia, pcb's are absolutely fun to make, and very cheap now days. About $5 from JLCPCB, and if you want it to arrive fast, its kind of expensive shipping, about $15 or $20 odd USD. Or you can use the slow shipping, a lot cheaper 21:27:19 Jookia, Yeah. Boost circuits are cool, but if you can have just two batteries instead of one, it would be nicer :D 21:27:20 IMO 21:27:58 Then you can just use another normal 'linear' ( ie, no inductors, just a 3 pin gizmo ) which outputs 5v 21:28:02 jsoft, analog power and digital power ? 21:28:26 yeah, but then i'd have to regulate it from 6.6v to 5v, and at that point i might as well to use a 5v uC which sounds like its less power efficient but who knows 21:28:36 Nah just 5v power to the ultra sonic doofer, via a P-Channel fet, and a 3.3v gizmo powering the arduino / avr / whatever brains 21:29:16 Jookia, that is also a point 21:29:44 Jookia, whats it for anyway? Any absolute reason for 1 second readings? 21:29:56 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 21:30:07 jsoft: it's meant to go on a cane and make a noise when there's objects near by 21:30:15 A crane ? 21:30:34 a cane, for blind people 21:30:37 Oh I see 21:30:45 lol that was not intentional 21:30:55 Hmm thats an interesting idea 21:31:13 you can buy professional cane alert things but they're like $900 21:31:14 A brilliant idea even 21:31:47 Jookia, I like it 21:32:11 that's good to hear 21:32:23 Jookia, what sort field of.. alertness does it have? Is it mostly forward? 21:32:59 jsoft: i'm not sure yet. ideally at least a 45 degree angle of things at ground level in front of the cane 21:33:27 but when you use the cane you're going to be moving it around so it's still unclear what resolution it needs to be useful 21:33:50 Hmm 21:33:55 thats quite a cool project 21:35:15 yeah, though most the headache comes from the physical aspect of the electronics 21:36:38 the 16850 battery holder i have is terrible so i'll have to replace that with ... something 21:39:26 i'm using a p-channel mofset to avoid running in reverse polarity, but i don't think that works well with battery charging. bah 21:40:28 Yeah you need to be super duper careful when making the charging circuit :) 21:43:16 the adafruit board i'm using has a charging circuit and it SEEMS to work but it's unclear how/why 21:43:24 i have a protect 18650 battery so it won't explode on me 21:50:17 back c[] 21:53:21 rdrop-exit, welcome back! 21:53:33 thank you, thank you 22:03:06 I've made some pretty good progress on my C64 forth recently 22:03:14 Here's a video of it in action: https://video.reinboar.xyz/videos/watch/2bce71d0-65a9-4997-97a6-fac5a10d6715 22:03:16 cool! 22:04:44 Wow, the download is super-slow, do you also have it on Youtube? 22:06:01 Sometimes if you pause and then unpause it, it will play as expected 22:06:19 I think it's just an issue with the player that the frontend uses 22:06:29 It looks stuck, I will refresh 22:07:17 ryke, where is the stack effect ( -- ) ? 22:07:19 rdrop-exit, it appears stuck. You should probably refresh 22:07:20 It stops at 0:01 22:07:43 tp, for CHAR? 22:07:53 yes 22:07:58 tried, is there a way to download? 22:08:30 I haven't added stack comments yet :/ 22:08:49 rdrop-exit: Click the the button under the video with the three dots 22:08:56 ryke, I'm a retarded forth beginner still, I'm lost without a stack effect 22:08:56 ok 22:09:39 that worked 22:09:40 CHAR just parses the next word in the input buffer and pushes the first character's value in that word to the stack 22:10:21 ryke, what is dropped ? 22:11:07 PARSE-NAME pushes the character address of the parsed word and then the length of that word. I drop the length since I only need the address 22:11:08 I use BYTE instead of CHAR, same difference 22:12:05 ryke, ahh! thanks for explaining :) 22:12:14 No problem! 22:13:05 kudos ryke 22:13:25 Thanks rdrop-exit 22:13:38 ryke is that like my "count" ? ( cstr-addr - - c-addr length ) Convert counted string into addr-length string 22:13:44 I feel like I've been working on this thing for ages but it's just now starting to pay off 22:14:14 it's magical when your Forth comes alive 22:14:47 tp PARSE-NAME pushes the same values but it doesn't take anything off the stack since it works directly on the input buffer 22:15:01 Indeed rdrop-exit 22:21:05 Quite so, ryke 22:21:21 * jsoft throws a baboon at tp 22:22:00 don't throw ya mates at me jsoft! 22:23:14 ryke: nice! 22:23:28 i'm up to the point in my forth where i need to implement : and eventually CREATE DOES 22:24:10 I never bother anymore with DOES> 22:24:47 tp, hehe 22:25:37 rdrop-exit: what's the cool new thing now 22:26:36 cool new thing? 22:27:23 you mean instead of DOES> ? 22:27:44 Jookia, rdrop-exit is a Zen Master of the Old Ways 22:28:37 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 22:28:45 More like the Neanderthal ways :) 22:28:45 rdrop-exit: yeah 22:29:14 Jookia, factoring. I consider CREATE ... DOES> ... bad factoring 22:29:51 what if you want to have a word that creates a word 22:30:00 wordception 22:30:40 brb 22:30:49 rdrop-exit, didn't Neanderthals actually have larger brains than us ? 22:31:15 they also dragged their knuckles 22:31:30 --- quit: Keshl_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:31:37 that was only to keep them sharp 22:31:42 : constant ( x -- )( -- x ) header, lit, inline ; 22:32:04 --- join: Keshl_ joined #forth 22:32:14 jsoft, quick ... very quick :) 22:33:33 jsoft, you took exactly 0.09 of a second for that one! 22:35:24 Jookia, I factor out the DOES> portion into a comma word that lays down the code 22:37:30 I guess that way you don't have to directly edit the XT 22:38:40 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 22:38:52 My Forths are usually Subroutine Threaded, so there's no XT to edit 22:39:36 The concept of an XT in a SRT Forth just corresponds to a code address 22:40:34 So for example a word created by CONSTANT is just a header followed by some code 22:41:19 rdrop-exit, does that make Mecrisp-Stellaris a SRT then ? 22:41:28 (in this case the code that pushes something onto the stack) 22:42:23 tp, IIRC from our last discussion on Mecrsip-St innards it is probably Subroutine Threaded with optional inlining 22:42:50 tp, but I've never actually looked at it, so don't take my word for it 22:42:52 with aotomatic inlining where possible 22:43:13 most likely 22:43:28 Personally, I prefer explicit inlining 22:43:42 every time I go to inline something, it's already inlined or not possible 22:44:29 apparently inlining isnt possible with RISC-V 32 Bit so it's not done 22:44:53 What do you mean, inlining 22:45:04 Isn't that a C term / 22:45:05 ? 22:45:16 No it's a general computing term 22:45:29 For what 22:45:30 jsoft, no, C stole it from Forth 22:45:43 I can explain that! 22:45:52 ok, you first tp 22:46:14 tick-tock tick-tock 22:46:58 Annnnnnnnd bzzzzt 22:47:00 in interests of speed you may wish to have a section of code executed inside your word rather than requiring a jump to the subroutine 22:47:06 Right ok 22:47:12 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 22:47:34 this can make your code longer, but certain sections are faster 22:47:35 Correct, you win ONE BILLION rupi 22:47:52 whats that buy me, a can of coke ? 22:47:55 It can also make it shorter, depending on the target 22:48:05 oh! 22:48:14 Right ok, so how does a thing like mecrisp know what to inline ? 22:48:23 unless explicitly told to ? 22:48:30 first it has to know what it CAN inline 22:48:35 especially on 1 64-bit machine 22:48:48 * on a 64-bit 22:49:09 why not go 'its all right there Mr.Forth, feel free to inline this word. 22:49:11 ' 22:49:16 tp, or you just explicitly tell it what you WANT to inline 22:49:21 And then it would know. 22:49:41 jsoft, Mecrisp-Stellaris uses a indian honeybee inside the code, if it buzzes madly, then the code can be inlined .... simple 22:49:53 Ahh it all makes sense now 22:49:54 I do it when I define a word 22:50:01 That's pretty innovative 22:50:34 sadly they only have a 12 day lifespan so I'm always sweeping up dead bees on the floor here 22:50:55 Useless bastards 22:51:06 CONSTANTs are normally inlined on Subroutine threaded Forths for example 22:51:25 So are VARIABLEs usually 22:51:33 What's threaded again ? 22:51:46 When a doofer compiles externally ? 22:52:17 there are two versions of Mecrisp-Stellaris, the 'classic' which has optional inlinung and the RA with automatic inlining 22:52:29 But of course there is 22:52:34 Forths are usually implemented as "threaded code interpreters" 22:52:36 * jsoft pretends to know such things 22:52:41 I only use the RA as it's faster 22:53:00 There are different sorts of threaded code, direct, indirect, subroutine, etc, etc... 22:53:30 Explicit inlining is much more flexible 22:53:49 jsoft, it's a little know fact that Chuck Moore invented Threaded Forth while still a member of the Seamstress Guild .. 22:53:54 than the compiler trying to guess 22:54:11 and maybe guessing your intent wrong 22:54:12 tp, 22:55:31 rdrop-exit, I'm the one who guesses wrong around here 22:55:33 ! 22:55:50 Never guess, decide ;) 22:56:27 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 22:56:27 jsoft, this is the best explanation of threaded code in Forth: 22:56:29 https://www.bradrodriguez.com/papers/moving1.htm 22:56:38 my decisions are a highly advanced form of guessing 22:58:13 When implementing a Forth, one of the first, if not the first, design decisions is what type of threading you will use 22:58:51 The decision has far reaching consequences and delicate tradeoffs 22:59:50 Delicate even 22:59:56 Ok thanks 23:00:01 exactly, will you use ribbon, wool yarn, or floss etc 23:00:05 ... or you could just flip a coin 23:00:47 I've been known to spin a good yarn myself 23:02:35 He's here all night folks, try the veal and tip the waitress. 23:03:39 What is that meat which is served raw? 23:03:47 I saw it on Mr.Bean once 23:03:52 Steak Tartar 23:03:55 Ahh yes 23:04:00 Carpaccio 23:04:01 I would like to try that 23:04:23 It kind of seems the more raw a meat, or at least beef is, the more betterer 23:04:43 ESPECIALLY on tuesdays. 23:05:02 The French have more words for "rare" than english speakers 23:05:23 The rarest (before raw) is "blue" 23:05:37 raw meat is very flavorful 23:05:39 Yeah I thought that was normal terms 23:05:42 meaning the veins are still blue 23:05:54 cooking takes away the taste, it doesnt enhance it 23:06:05 Glorious glorious meat 23:06:19 i ate raw meat for a while and may again 23:06:38 Yeah I think I might try it at some stage 23:06:57 I've pretty much eaten raw steak, with a token sear on the regular 23:07:08 the secret is very thin slices unles you have the jaw muscles of a lion 23:07:30 Well I reckon beef mince would be all good 23:07:40 --- join: f-a joined #forth 23:07:50 and if the slices are thin, you dont really need to eat it because it just 'melts' on your tongue anyway 23:07:52 Wait, how'd we get from threading code to meat? 23:07:58 Someone said meat 23:08:08 Ah, yes, I said "veal" 23:08:09 'veal' 23:08:15 =D 23:08:17 :D 23:08:22 morgen, friends 23:08:24 Meat is mission critical 23:08:32 Hi f-a! 23:08:34 or time-zone-appropriate-greetings 23:08:37 lol 23:08:44 time zone appropriate greetings, hehe 23:08:49 good afternoon 23:08:56 Yeah nah gidday mate 23:08:58 (3pm here) 23:09:14 hi f-a ! hey that pic url you pasted here looked like a automatic gate/door opener or closer controller 23:09:25 tp, did it, though? 23:09:30 Or was it something more... sinister 23:09:42 Like a vegetable machine! 23:09:44 rdrop-exit, I'm 3hrs ahead of you! 23:09:52 It opens a sinister door 23:10:01 yeah it did 23:10:14 No daylight savings time here 23:10:17 it could have opened the doorway to opportunity! 23:10:52 f-a, so why was I in any way responsible for a gate controller ? 23:11:48 the shop seels boards too 23:11:58 rdrop-exit, so 'threading' is just the way that all the subroutines are 'joined' to each other ? 23:12:17 tp, I thought you were a threading nerd? 23:12:18 and assorted SBCs 23:12:33 f-a, ahh 23:13:03 tp, yes pretty much 23:13:12 jsoft, no I just like to needle you 23:14:21 rdrop-exit, Zen Forth Master, is the path to enlightenment being able to taste the flavor and see the colour of each threading technique ? 23:15:52 it's just a step on the path 23:15:59 jsoft, I have watched the inscrutable woman pass a silver thread thru the needle with no eye, and I have been amazed... 23:16:15 grasshopper 23:16:32 :) 23:16:35 (who's old enough to get the reference?) 23:16:44 certainly me 23:16:55 Im as old as caine ... 23:17:05 very good!!! :)) 23:17:17 -e 23:17:48 Kids nowadays say padawan, they don't know grasshopper 23:17:56 I may be as old as caine, but I'm still abel 23:19:22 You are a regular cheese factory, tp 23:19:32 rdrop-exit, there is much that is now lost for all those that remember are dead .. 23:20:29 jsoft, my greatest aspiration is to be hard cheddar 23:21:13 We done some hard cheddar swimming today 23:21:20 Using flipper thingys 23:21:32 Its crazy how fast you can scoot long in flippers 23:22:14 And then we had BBQ 23:22:44 much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it ... 23:23:20 jsoft, did your boss catch any sharks that way ? 23:24:12 * tp had a excellent xmas lunch today, best one ever! 23:24:14 tp, not that I am aware of 23:24:21 tp, what is an xmas lunch ? 23:24:53 it lunch at the local resturant celebrating the end of the year with workmates 23:25:06 nice 23:25:29 it was excellent, really enjoyed myself 23:26:09 id normally rather be building gear, but Im glad I went 23:26:37 I'm on the cusp of finally sorting out my development environment SCM 23:26:53 go social, tp! 23:26:55 Im building a project builder to rule them all! 23:26:55 enjoy life 23:27:06 f-a, oh I have :) 23:27:51 why is it so complicated that it needs sorting out? 23:28:05 it's not 23:28:05 :0p 23:28:17 it's so simple that it needs sorting ouut 23:28:32 hmmm 23:28:57 sorting out complicated things is easy 23:29:06 it's the simple things that are hard 23:29:38 tp, that's kind of a true statement 23:30:05 jsoft, of course it is, I plagiarised it from the best of them! 23:30:07 I don't know how many times its 'oh its just problem A, some noob problem, 5 minutes, and sorted. one week later...' 23:30:21 you hack :P 23:30:33 or one year and $1 billion later .... 23:31:15 I tend to RAMP right off when anyone says to me a statement starting with "oh it's just a simple ...." 23:31:37 I thought you SCM problems were caused by your... libraries 23:31:42 I always tell them to say it again and remove the "just" word 23:32:22 I learnt 20 years ago to avoid appling timeframes to problems 23:32:25 rdrop-exit, no they were caused by my inability to comprehend the problem in the first place ... story of my life 23:32:58 remember the classic Superman film with Gene Hackman as Lex Luthor ? 23:33:05 yes 23:33:08 :) 23:33:31 Luthor` sends a mad scientist played by Richard Prior to kill Superman 23:33:46 ok 23:34:30 and when he returns to say he failed, Luthor looks sadly at Prior and says " I ask you to kill Superman for me, and you can't even do that one simple thing ..." 23:34:36 lol 23:35:05 :) 23:35:14 the line was delivered perfectly by Hackman who is a GOD of acting 23:35:23 You only had one job... 23:36:13 I dont have the film so sadly I cant refresh my memory of the actual dialogue 23:37:17 I was like prior designing my inital project builder 23:38:07 but as everything new I do is um .. new, I expect to take three goes to get it right 23:38:27 this is go 2 23:39:09 it's not trivial to design a semi tethered Forth from scratch! 23:39:29 even when someone else already built the Forth 23:39:31 You guys and your tethered forth 23:39:47 i was just having tethering problems 23:39:47 tether tether 23:39:56 lol 23:41:39 I think im going to spaz out on some weights over the holidays 23:42:50 jsoft, well if you only lift your head then you'd be relegated to the bantam weight division 23:43:46 What are you getting at, you mess of a seamstress, you ? 23:44:20 what are you trying to cotton-on to ? 23:44:40 Your reel of conversation 23:45:07 youre not pulling the wooll over anyones eyes pal 23:45:47 the pain, the pain 23:46:16 yeah, lets not cause collateral damage to the Zen Master here! 23:46:33 or Mr Smith 23:46:46 very good 23:47:07 Tragic 23:47:22 rdrop-exit, seen the 2018 tv series of Lost In Space ? 23:47:27 it's not bad 23:47:48 except that Dr Smith is a woman, but she does it very well 23:47:56 the robot is a alien 23:48:03 Ya, it was not bad 23:48:21 yeah, I was looking forward to a lame 2nd season 23:49:36 the trailer for season 2 is on youtube 23:50:06 oh, I havent seen it 23:50:25 ill look for it when Im not throtted 23:50:35 only 7 days! 23:51:09 who watched the latest spaceX launch yesterday ? 23:51:34 not I 23:51:54 another *perfect* first stage recovery on the landing barge, in the dark, dead centre of the target circle! 23:52:17 it's incredible 23:52:45 and this after a geosynchronous sat launch! 23:53:19 was something like their 47th straight successful first stage recovery 23:53:54 cool 23:54:28 the Orbiter landings soon became ho hum, but the SpaceX first stage recoveries never get old 23:54:54 because if they go wrong there is always enough fuel to provide wild pyrotechnics 23:55:15 gotta take the dogs to the vet, catch you all later 23:55:20 cya! 23:55:25 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Quit: Lost terminal) 23:57:50 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 23:58:05 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 23:59:01 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/19.12.17