00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.12.10 00:01:51 --- join: dys joined #forth 00:25:20 --- quit: Jookia (Quit: Jookia) 00:29:41 hello jsoft, how is the clock, man 00:29:54 or "how is the clockman" 00:32:03 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 00:46:37 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 00:46:39 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 00:46:45 tp, good good, just got me some munchies. How's the documentation man? ;) 00:47:20 good, pondering the RISC-V 32 Bit stuff 00:48:04 checkout the difference between cortex-m thumb and RISC-V 32 Bit for a simple Word that just adds 2 00:48:16 : 2plus 2 + ; ok. 00:48:16 see 2plus 00:48:16 20000588: 3602 adds r6 #2 00:48:16 2000058A: 4770 bx lr 00:48:25 thats cortex-m 00:48:53 and now RISC-V 32 Bit 00:48:55 see 2plus+ 00:48:55 0001CF24: 00218193 addi x3, x3, 2 00:48:56 0001CF28: 00008067 jalr zero, 0 (x1) 00:48:56 ok. 00:48:57 --- join: cheater joined #forth 00:50:01 not much difference, but the RISC-V 32 Bit does take twice the flash space for the same thing 00:56:33 hmm 00:57:24 which is why thumb exists, arm 'compress' the 32 bit instruction set into 16 bits 00:58:08 and RISC-V 32 Bit also has a 16 bit 'compressed instruction set mode' but mecrisp hasnt used it yet Im guessing 00:58:53 --- part: f-a left #forth 01:02:14 I have never written arm asm before, so not really sure what I am looking at, or how thumb work 01:03:53 oh, I didn't consider that 01:04:15 youve achieved so much with Forth already that I just ... assumed 01:04:54 can you please be more consistent and achieve less in future ? 01:06:51 if you keep learning at the rate you have so far with forth, I imagine you'll start getting familiar with assembly soon 01:07:14 to learn Forth is to become familiar with assembly anyway 02:02:38 Well i've done assembly stuff before, mainly pic, but just have never had a need for it since 02:03:45 you can use Forth and never do a single line of assembly if you like, but it's unlikely 02:09:41 for instance, assembly and Forth are so tightly connected, one is always examining Words after creation with "see" to look for poor design etc 02:10:30 oh wow a storm is here, lightning and strong wind, no rain yet 02:14:29 it's surreal, night, lightning, strong wind ... you'd normally expect the fresh ozone smell of a storm, but all I get is smoke wafting everywhere from fires 70km/42 miles away 02:14:48 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 02:19:33 --- join: iyzsong joined #forth 02:27:19 --- join: iyzsong-x joined #forth 02:27:39 --- quit: iyzsong (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 02:54:57 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 03:04:25 --- quit: iyzsong-x (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in) 03:14:41 --- join: Jookia joined #forth 03:18:24 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 03:27:39 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 04:19:23 --- quit: smokeink (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 05:20:39 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:40:49 --- join: jedb joined #forth 06:33:06 It just dawned on me that Arduino is an EEE Attack on AVR. 06:49:14 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 07:01:36 --- join: ryke joined #forth 07:08:18 --- join: jedb joined #forth 07:12:30 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 07:24:12 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 07:34:49 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 07:48:17 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 07:50:19 --- join: cheater joined #forth 09:31:15 DKordic, "attack" ? 09:47:46 --- join: smokeink joined #forth 11:13:18 ""Attack"" as in ""Denial of Service"" ""Attack"". 11:13:26 `` I am a design chauvinist. I believe that good design is magical and not to be lightly tinkered with. The difference between a great design and a lousy one is in the meshing of the thousand details that either fit or don't, and the spirit of the passionate intellect that has tied them together, or tried. That's why programming---or buying software---on the basis of "lists of features" is a doomed and misguided effort. The features 11:13:26 can be thrown together, as in a garbage can, or carefully laid together and interwoven in elegant unification, as in APL, or the Forth language, or the game of chess. '' – Ted Nelson 11:19:55 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 11:57:58 --- join: root__ joined #forth 12:00:23 --- quit: smokeink (Remote host closed the connection) 12:00:23 --- quit: root__ (Remote host closed the connection) 12:01:06 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 12:16:27 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 13:48:14 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 13:55:51 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 13:56:19 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:56:48 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 14:22:57 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 14:23:27 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 14:24:02 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 14:42:03 --- join: ryke joined #forth 14:43:56 --- quit: nonlinear (Quit: ZNC 1.7.4+deb0+bionic0 - https://znc.in) 14:49:21 --- join: jedb_ joined #forth 14:52:09 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 15:17:14 --- join: jedb__ joined #forth 15:20:12 --- quit: jedb_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 15:30:36 DKordic, excellent quote :) 15:32:39 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:32:57 Good morning tp. 15:34:45 morning DKordic, all is well with the Forth world here today I'm happy to say 15:35:29 Excellent. 15:36:06 Ive been making some bootable Forth binaries for 'Blue Pill' boards, so popular amongst the arduino and C crowd for their low price 15:36:12 --- join: f-a joined #forth 15:36:29 I think someone should make a sand clock with coffee instead of sand :P . 15:36:46 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 15:37:05 and announcing them on their forums, where although Forth is generally reviled, they have a lot of trouble talking USB to the cheap crappy boards 15:37:33 what are we venting on? 15:37:35 Forth strangely enough makes the USB system work 15:38:07 hey f-a, had your Eel and mushrooms or breakfast already ? ;-) 15:38:21 :P 15:38:55 f-a, perhaps some hard cheese and ham ? 15:39:35 f-a, after speaking about food with you the otehr day I raced out and bought some hard cheddar, so yum! 15:39:39 DevBoards are already very... cost-effective. It might not be worth it. 15:39:42 haha good choie 15:40:20 DKordic, not as cost effective as a bare stm32 chip and Mecrisp-Stellaris Forth :) 15:40:51 DKordic, a conplete Forth on a chip costs me $0.56 USD, thats hard to beat 15:46:06 Yeah, I was expecting that from You. I wanted to say that BluePill might be harder to work with, not even considering $price, than bare chip. 15:48:34 DKordic, yeah, and I'd agree with you expecially considering their range of design faults such as incorrect USB pull up resistor. 15:49:53 A STM32F4 Break-out-Board (BoB) with a 3IF would be... Hard SciFi. 15:50:06 but 'boards' are popular thesedays as hobbyists try and cram multiple boards into a box, all connections provided by shonky 'dupont' point to point links 15:51:39 More and more I am begining to think that true purpose of JavaScript and Arduino is to be counter-productive... for ""Users"". 15:51:58 the concept boggles my mind 15:52:24 how about 'micropython' ? it's 30x slower than forth, and for what advantage ? 15:52:54 not to mention it requires 256kB flash just to host micropython on a F4 15:54:28 I feel that Forth has slowly deconstructed my fear of maths and complex operations because things seem simpler now, much I thought impossible, has become possible 15:55:30 I had the same experience. 15:57:28 really? ! 15:59:15 Yes (IMHO) MicroPython is a stupid joke compared to Forth. 16:00:23 as I keep stating, I'm not a programmer, but perhaps Forth is slowly making me into one as I seem to be the only person making free bootable images to debug 'blue pill boards'. For all the claimed 'superiority' of C/C++ no one using C is yet making such a bootable binary available 16:00:49 it hay yet happen, but I seem to be the first 16:01:34 9> I am not a programmer 16:01:42 I have bad news for you tp 16:01:52 forth is... a programming language 16:01:54 I also include a chip "Device electronic signature" decoder in my bootable image, no one bothered to make one yet 16:03:17 f-a, yeah I know it is, but I have seen real programmers at work and don't delude myself I'm even in their universe. I am however a awesome electronics technician and have been all my life :) 16:04:25 throw some "asbtraction layer" in your conversations and you are fine 16:04:40 * f-a needs a game to play 16:04:58 Urban Assault ? 16:05:05 oops 16:05:06 I am happy to see there is a community for embedded boards 16:05:11 Urban Terror ? 16:05:16 * f-a searches 16:05:44 that will do! 16:05:46 * tp was a IOuebanterror addict for 5 years 16:06:03 it's a awesome online play and lots of servers 16:06:25 initially unix the windows people have slowly taken over 16:06:48 the game itself has a server with bots you can use 16:07:16 and the online servers will kick you off if youre not good enough, dont take it personally 16:07:37 haha really? 16:07:39 I was kicked off for months when I first started 16:07:42 draconian! 16:07:42 yeah 16:07:53 they just dont suffer noobs 16:08:08 imagine if #forth had a similar policy 16:08:23 the game has a server and bots, until you can kill them easily, forget going online 16:08:31 well it kind of does ;-) 16:09:11 how many people came here and announced they were new to Forth (from C or whatever) and would make it theirs ? 16:09:51 then they started indignantly complaining that Forth wasn't like C (or whatever) 16:10:00 then they never came back 16:10:12 never witnessed such an episode! 16:10:21 I guess is a mutual-benefit parting 16:10:22 the entry price to Forth is sky high! 16:10:44 what many noobs dont realise is that Forth may not accept THEM! 16:10:56 hehe 16:11:23 i get it quite often via my website 16:11:36 complaining people? 16:11:54 if they have ever used Arduino before, I know that the odds are not in their favour 16:12:08 is arduino that bad 16:12:10 yeah, indignant complaining new Forth users 16:12:20 no, arduino is fine 16:12:39 but arduino attracts people who find Forth *very* hard 16:13:04 usually the first complaint is "where are the Forth libraries ?" 16:13:33 yeah were are those 16:13:38 arduino users are used to having thousands of libraries that suck. 16:13:39 * f-a threatens tp with a sickle 16:14:16 a sickle against a 357 magnum ? I wouldnt recommend it :) 16:16:09 if a slug hits the sickle it could send nasty jarring vibrations up the pole to your hands! 16:20:52 tp: ""from __future__ import my_wish""? 16:21:35 hahahh 16:21:55 DKordic, Im just not into python 16:23:52 ""[If only] we could find characters or signs suited for expressing all our thoughts as clearly and as exactly as arithmetic expresses numbers... "" -- Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, 1677 (https://dwheeler.com/readable/) 16:25:30 i like a bit of fuzzy thoughts 16:26:24 people remember stuff differently... 2 eye witnesses and 1 says the perp had a blue shirt and the other 1 says the perp had a green shirt 16:26:44 plays tricks on you 16:27:40 true, our ability to sense the outside world accurately is tenuous at best 16:38:54 oops i thought this was #truth lol 16:39:05 didn't mean to spam #forth :-p 16:39:28 hahah 16:40:15 well Forth is a deep kind of truth :) 16:53:48 --- quit: f-a (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:58:25 --- join: f-a joined #forth 16:59:12 --- join: tabemann joined #forth 17:02:57 tp: When someone says "I want a programming language in which I need only say what I wish done," give him a lollipop. -- Alan Perlis (http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html) 17:04:06 hey guys 17:05:16 hey tabemann, still hating over cThumb ? 17:05:32 -c 17:06:27 I found out that bl