00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.11.25 00:02:34 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 00:06:56 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 00:17:28 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 01:14:11 evening forthlings! 01:15:05 i was having problems with a complex Word that was causing the MCU to spew exceptions 01:16:08 a frind came over as I was about to start debugging and 4 hrs later I had a look at my code and found I'd left a single ">r" in it from earlier experiments .... 01:16:13 Hello tp! 01:16:22 hello mtst! 01:16:42 I have done similar things :) 01:16:43 so the stack being very happy tripped some exceptions 01:16:51 yeah I can believe it 01:17:02 pretty easy to do 01:17:13 Yes, indeed 01:17:18 And easy to miss 01:18:04 I remember putting in a >r and r> to monitor a index and later removing the r> plus other test code, but I forgot the >r ! 01:18:46 I'm also loving my 'stack sensitive cursor' which turns red if there is anyting on the stack 01:18:59 Nice! 01:19:30 actually it's a 'stack sensitive prompt' 01:19:52 the "ok." tyrn from black to red if stack > 0 01:20:15 so no extra text (which I hate) just a color change 01:20:35 Very good idea 01:20:45 Well done! 01:20:58 ill be calling this 'color Forth soon, but for totally different reasons to C Moore ;-) 01:21:24 https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/stack-sensitive-prompt.html#ssp 01:21:33 I have screenshots there! 01:21:59 and syntax highlighted source code! 01:28:51 I'll have a look :) 01:29:31 it's not much code 01:31:37 I was about to comment on that, actually. It is very compact, to the point 01:32:50 it does have extra color options so people can easily change it to suit their terminal color scheme 01:33:04 So easy to wrap your head around. Not hidden away somewhere in some library. The code does what it says 01:33:06 so not quite as small as it could be 01:33:27 The functionality is right there 01:34:30 cool :) 01:34:49 and it's pretty handy 01:35:21 so typical forth, think of some enhancement and you can have it as coon as you code it! 01:36:09 no need to submit it to a commercial manufacturer of your IDE and wait years to see if they accept and implement it 01:36:29 --- quit: mtsd (Remote host closed the connection) 01:37:09 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 01:46:37 --- join: dys joined #forth 02:13:18 --- quit: dys (Remote host closed the connection) 02:17:29 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 02:28:37 --- join: dys joined #forth 02:58:13 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 04:19:35 --- quit: a3f (Excess Flood) 04:19:47 --- join: a3f joined #forth 05:00:44 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 05:02:01 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:02:02 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 05:22:39 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 05:25:21 --- join: X-Scale joined #forth 05:53:04 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 05:53:15 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 05:54:07 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 06:15:49 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 06:19:01 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 06:28:00 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 06:28:19 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 06:28:46 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 06:58:49 --- quit: karswell (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 07:17:10 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: Leaving) 07:24:56 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 07:26:37 --- quit: jedb__ (Remote host closed the connection) 07:26:52 --- join: jedb__ joined #forth 08:01:17 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 08:02:59 --- join: ryke joined #forth 08:07:44 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 08:13:37 --- join: dddddd joined #forth 08:37:53 --- join: dys joined #forth 10:36:19 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 10:52:59 --- quit: jpsamaroo (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:05:23 --- join: pierpal joined #forth 11:09:10 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 11:11:06 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:20:44 --- join: pierpal joined #forth 11:20:45 --- join: ryke joined #forth 11:21:17 --- join: inode joined #forth 11:27:45 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:28:00 --- join: pierpal joined #forth 12:17:04 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 12:44:32 --- nick: jedb__ -> jedb 12:48:57 --- quit: pierpal (Remote host closed the connection) 12:55:13 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:05:11 --- quit: louisg (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 13:06:12 --- quit: remexre (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 13:11:57 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 13:31:40 --- quit: inode (Quit: ) 13:50:36 --- join: dys joined #forth 13:50:43 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 13:56:11 --- join: ryke joined #forth 14:12:00 --- join: jedb_ joined #forth 14:14:19 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:17:25 --- join: jpsamaroo joined #forth 14:17:39 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 14:38:47 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 14:59:51 --- quit: jedb_ (Remote host closed the connection) 15:16:00 --- join: jedb joined #forth 15:32:36 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 15:35:19 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:37:35 --- join: cheater joined #forth 16:14:12 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 16:15:40 --- join: cheater joined #forth 16:45:44 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 17:04:08 --- join: tabemann joined #forth 17:07:17 --- join: remexre joined #forth 17:43:18 g'day Forthlings 17:43:31 Greetings from planet downunder 17:44:08 for years a empty stack looked like this for me ".s [0 ] 42 ok" 17:44:49 today I thought (for the first time) "WTF ... 42 ??? this is Matthias idea of a joke Ill bet!" 17:45:27 and sure enuf, instead of initialising the TOS of stack with "0", he used "42" 17:46:10 hey tp 17:46:16 hey tabemann ! 17:46:40 so now my stack print is ".s [0 ] 0 ok" 17:48:01 tabemann, Forth refactoring is such fun, I love getting rid of all the crap that my fists efforts always have 17:48:10 first efforts 17:48:16 and second efforts 17:48:52 even Matthias admits hes guilty of long Words, so there is hope for me yet 17:50:43 * tabemann is very much extremely guilty of long words 17:51:38 tabemann, it's inevitable, BUT a long word is a opportunity for fun refactoring Im finding 17:52:19 and the inevitable zen clarity follows 17:52:38 'oh, so thats what my program does!" 17:55:29 Good evening 17:57:05 good evening crc 17:57:29 hey crc 17:57:38 okay, I've gotta head out - bbl 17:58:10 cya tabemann 18:03:24 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18:35:36 does any forth has support for mqtt/coap ? 18:46:08 --- join: ryke joined #forth 19:52:20 tp; https://imgur.com/a/xgAxXk7 :) 19:59:34 --- join: tabemann joined #forth 20:22:27 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 20:39:56 jsoft, pretty nice, so using separate WSxxxx's, isn't that a danger with those things ? 20:50:35 --- join: TonySidaway joined #forth 20:54:11 What do you mean seperate 20:54:19 separate even 20:56:16 they usually come in a string of leds from the factory ? 20:56:23 Yeah ? 20:56:49 I ordered ( or am yet to order, actually ) the actual discrete leds 20:57:06 Im not sure what you mean by the danger part 20:57:11 What is it I am missing here! :D 20:57:14 i read that the separate ones are VERY susceptible to dying after soldering 20:57:31 Well good thing I ordered 150 20:57:37 ( yet to order 150 ) 20:57:50 there are good and bad ones, and the bad ones ALL die after soldering 20:57:56 excellent! 20:57:56 :( 20:58:06 Hackaday has a big article on them 20:58:06 tp, where did you here this from ? 20:58:13 hmm ok 20:58:16 Fuck 20:58:26 you definitely want to read that article 20:58:33 Nah she'll be right 20:58:43 they use the 'texta' test on them 20:58:43 :D 20:59:09 the shit ones when a texta nib is pressed agains them fillup with ink 20:59:36 even if you solder them and some work, they will probably die shortly after 20:59:39 what even is a texta nib 20:59:44 theyre not hermeticaly sealed 20:59:49 a sharpie ? 21:00:04 Oh right 21:00:04 a felt tipped pen 21:00:35 make sure you read the hackaday article or your project will be crap 21:01:11 I cant find it yet 21:02:13 Perhaps I should scientifically ignore the problem 21:02:18 This is a once off 21:02:33 Well, that was the plan anyway 21:03:47 not in top search results, so therefor the problem does not exist :P 21:04:17 i cant find it either 21:04:32 but I read it and all the comments, was a major problem 21:05:21 imagine that, crap cheap WSxxx leds from China, who's believe it ? 21:07:02 https://wp.josh.com/2016/10/29/a-quick-test-for-crappy-ws2812b-neopixels/ 21:07:09 thats the guy I think 21:07:25 my Google0fu is indeed strong 21:07:31 my Google-fu is indeed strong 21:07:45 thats on a tape anyway 21:07:48 So meh 21:07:52 And I am ordering C's 21:08:01 the Google-fu is strong in you 21:08:50 A toast, to solving the problem by ignoring it! Cheers 21:08:55 tabemann, and my Forth code is getting better all the time, Im having serious fun with it thesedays 21:09:07 good for you! 21:09:12 jsoft, bahhhhhhhhh, bahhhhhhhh 21:09:20 tp, I had to write some python last night, it was quite weird 21:09:43 jsoft, you used to write python for embedded before ? 21:10:01 Ain't done python in a while. But, it was rather useful, as I laid out all those leds / tracks using python 21:10:05 tp, no 21:10:07 tp, never 21:10:20 tabemann, see my 'stack sensitive prompt' ? 21:10:24 tp, I used python as part of kicad to script the placement of the leds + tracks in a circle 21:10:33 tp: you told me about it 21:10:55 jsoft, aha, yeah python is the new kid on the block, it's the language everyone loves now 21:11:10 tabemann, https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/stack-sensitive-prompt.html#ssp 21:11:11 mind you python is practically 30 years old lol 21:11:50 tabemann, yeah but they have ported it to large embedded now 21:12:12 256kB gets you micro python on a cortex-m4 21:12:42 I should steal your color-coded prompt 21:13:48 build on, reuse, add too ... we dont steal from each other, we share :) 21:14:02 -o 21:14:45 I see the prompt going red at times when I upload code now 21:14:48 tp, yeah i've used it before during sysadmin work. Just aint touched it in ages 21:16:38 I get python advocates arguing with me from time to time, "python is much better than Forth they say (then never actually have used forth), and it fits on any micro" 21:17:35 when I remark that it wont fit on a 64kb flash micro they say 'get a 256kB flash M4, theyre cheap and better" 21:18:23 right ... get a M4, run it at 250 Mhz so it's about the speed of my 8 Mhz M0 ... 21:18:36 when running micro python 21:20:20 If I mentioned I'm still playing with ATtiny85, I can imagine the putting looks I'd get. But when their hibernation options those little things will run on a small battery until the battery runs down through natural leakage 21:21:44 TonySidaway, havent atmel ceased production of that model ? 21:22:05 is it a 8 pin dip ? 21:22:34 tp, I've still got a few. Yes 8-pin dip, breadboard-friendly. 21:24:06 TonySidaway, probably still a few million in parts cabinets around the world 21:24:21 They're still available new on eBay. 21:24:33 haha, China to the rescue 21:24:52 like "new" STM32F103's from CHina ? 21:25:02 new, just recycled 21:27:01 Yes, may well be recovered kit. 21:28:54 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 21:28:55 back 21:28:56 which is fine, recycling is good, as long as they tell you it's recycled 21:29:00 welcome back! 21:29:25 TonySidaway, we gave this chip in STM32 instead 21:29:39 Arm® Cortex®-M0+ 32-bit MCU, up to 64 KB Flash, 8 KB RAM,2x USART, timers, ADC, comm. I/Fs, 2.0-3.6V 21:29:41 I now have a colored "ok" 21:29:50 it's a 8 pin flat pack 21:29:57 tabemann, wow that was fast! 21:30:25 TonySidaway, it's 5 * 6 mm in size 21:30:59 TonySidaway, so small, but not stupidly small 21:31:26 tp, I'm dragging my feet with AVR, I know. Just not ready to move on quite yet. 21:31:32 tp: yep - the part that took the longest was looking up the codes to generate the color and reset it 21:32:20 TonySidaway, the 8 pins are 1.3mm apart which is gigantic in SMT sizes 21:32:36 tabemann, the ansi codes :) 21:33:03 TonySidaway, I've been hand soldering solder blobs that are 0.5mm apart 21:33:31 actually, 0.4mm apart 21:34:07 This is why, on the eighth day, God created the breakout board. 21:34:07 the pins on my STM32f051 are 0.5mm wide and 0.5mm apart and I have no problems hand soldering them 21:34:21 TonySidaway, I rarely use them 21:34:45 I prefer hand made hardware, often with no pcb tracks 21:35:34 Forth thinking has made me daemon with hardware 21:35:53 I'm in it for the software. Hard to break the habit of a lifetime. 21:36:24 well, I should hit the sack 21:37:05 g'night guys 21:37:30 night 21:38:24 nighto 21:38:30 Spending the next day or two translating tinusaur 21:38:45 TonySidaway, absolutely, we all have our own favorites 21:39:04 's usiuartx for the attiny85 from C to assembler. 21:40:07 One of the interesting challenges will then be trying to use simavr to debug it. 21:41:44 Doing this all in my mobile phone , incidentally. There's this fantastic non-root package called UserLAnd. 21:43:35 I'm running avr-gcc, simavr, git and fossil seamlessly inside a box that believes it's a Debian system. 21:47:13 amazing 21:47:18 amazingly hard! 21:48:12 TonySidaway, Id rather try and thread 5 mil aluminium wire by hand into a wire bonder needle! 21:50:27 Guess you really are Australian! You spell aluminium the same way we do. 21:52:34 yep I'm definitely Australian 21:52:47 all my ancestors came from the UK 21:53:01 fom Coventry to Sunderland 21:53:39 My son hacked together a bitbanged serial for ATtiny85 once. Said it was simple but that's because he's an actual stone cold genius. 21:54:03 everything is simple for geniuses, curse their scaley hides! 21:54:59 TonySidaway, my mobile phone believes it's a Debian system as well, mainly because it is :) 21:55:00 My surname is from the Midlands, lots of Sidaways in the Birmingham phone book. 21:55:17 Nokia N9 21:55:32 But I was raised here in Sunderland and that's where most of my family still lives. 21:56:04 my grandfather came from Sunderland, his name was Smith 21:56:20 Oh the sideways one with the little qwerty keyboard? 21:56:44 no, iy has no keyboard at all 21:57:00 it's all touchscreen 21:57:07 with OLED display 21:57:41 it was nokias LAST smart phone 21:57:53 runs Maemo on debian 21:58:02 which is QT widgets 21:58:07 no android 22:00:38 Looking out up on eBay. Somebody is selling a n900 for £50 Buy it Now. 22:01:26 Seems to be same general family but this one does have a tiny pullout keyboard. 22:04:43 ah yeah the n900 was a earlier model, I had one also 22:05:06 bit big and chunky, wasnt a mobile phone either iirc 22:06:40 ok, i was wrong there, definitely a mobile phone 22:07:24 ahh I had a Nokia N810 22:07:33 that only had wifi 22:08:49 it's probably in a box somewhere unless I threw it out 22:08:50 I'll stick with my Moto G. Those N9 phones are amazing devices for the time, and they're dirt cheap second hand on eBay. 22:09:34 the N9xx and N8xx keyboards were a bit crappy I thought 22:10:19 I don't get on well with small keyboards. 22:10:20 the N9 has no keyboard and is a good mobile phone, thats all I use it for 22:10:24 same here 22:10:28 or small displays 22:10:41 Im 65, I need a 27" display 22:10:50 nothing less suits me 22:12:36 I think extreme myopia has been a blessing for me. I'm well into my sixties too, but without glasses or lenses my eyesight is very good...up to 10cm. So if I hold my screen close to my face it just looks big and nice and clear. 22:13:18 If I wear correcting lenses of any kind all that goes away. 22:14:44 lucky! 22:15:03 I have had cataract replacements in both eyes 22:15:11 So I'm now lying in bed relaxing after a personal mini-hackathon, holding the phone to my face and swiping the words on the phone screen. 22:15:20 one is fixed short focus, the other is fixed long focus 22:15:41 crikey youre a legend TonySidaway ! 22:16:52 Ah, I use contact lenses that work in a similar way. My left eye works best for normal reading and the right eye helps me not to be true by ignoring friends in the street. 22:17:13 *true -> rude 22:18:36 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 22:18:55 They were recommended to me after I asked about varifocal contact lenses. This method works well for me and it's the same price as normal RGP lenses. 22:18:58 haha, aint old age grand! 22:20:23 Beats me how you can do your own soldering after cataract surgery. That is truly wondrous! 22:21:26 i have to use a 40x binocular microscope for SMT have had to the last 20 yers 22:21:39 I can solder a DIP unaided 22:22:07 but 0.5mm work required a microscope even among those with good eyes 22:22:29 fortunately my hands are still dead steady, a life of no alcohol I guess 22:24:07 This is why I let my son do all the important work around here. He's not a drinker and his eyes and hands are still great at 34. 22:35:34 perfect! 22:36:41 Wonder if he'd like a really nice soldering kit for Christmas! 22:47:00 i think so! 23:00:17 I do beleive I am hungry 23:00:46 --- quit: TonySidaway (Quit: TonySidaway) 23:01:50 tp, whats for dinner? 23:02:41 jsoft, rump steak, eggs, brocolli and tomatoes, eating it now 23:07:19 Awwww yeah, steak and eggs ftw 23:09:58 tp, if you ever find yourself a bit sick, a bit with a drama health wise, try out a meat only diet 23:10:37 jsoft, yeah I have, Im a keto man 23:11:07 tp, extra champ 23:11:19 and a fasting lover 23:11:31 Yeah I don't like doing that 23:11:35 I like eating 23:11:41 tho a 5 day fast is my longest to dat 23:11:44 e 23:11:57 Why fast ? 23:12:03 Why do you do it ? 23:12:04 mental acuity 23:12:18 How's that 23:12:21 it puts me in a whole new zone 23:12:56 lookat history, great men when they had problems to solve, they fasted 23:13:08 theres a reason for that 23:14:03 Hmm 23:14:39 See, When I get hungry, I have a problem. Short term fasting. Then I solve it by eating 23:14:48 :D 23:18:36 haah 23:18:52 probelm is when one eats, brain gets slow, reverse when fasting 23:19:25 I'm planning a 2 week fast soon 23:19:39 If you ate carbs or veges it might get slow, definately carbs 23:20:27 Fat + Meat is the fuel of humans IMO 23:23:34 absolutely, I'm with you 100$ brother 23:23:39 100% 23:23:57 i have a bit of vegies, low carbs tho 23:24:20 I'm mainly meat and fat 23:24:56 I pretty much each no vegeies, unless I eat it in the odd burger or something I occasionally buy 23:25:01 jsoft, I even have blood ketone meter 23:25:24 How does that work? 23:25:33 it's like a glucose meter but with ketone strips instead 23:25:49 prick finger, tiny spot of blood on strop 23:25:56 meter analyses 23:27:14 carbs are like poison to me in my old age, and all modern processed food is packed with highly refined carbs 23:27:39 food tech has kept pace with embedded in every way' 23:29:56 I think carbs are pretty much bad regardless of age 23:30:18 yep 23:30:31 but the younger person can cope 23:30:34 better 23:30:52 Sure, just like most things nasty. 23:33:32 yep, agreed 23:33:48 I actually prefer raw kangaroo 23:33:54 sliced thin' 23:34:22 Never had that 23:38:03 tp, have a geeze at shawn baker :) 23:38:17 i have 23:38:23 I know all about him 23:38:34 hes a little full on for me 23:39:11 after a while cooked meat tastes a bit bland compared to raw 23:39:24 like cardboard 23:39:30 I've been meaning to try raw meat 23:39:50 it's a bit different at first, the trick is really THIN slices 23:40:10 like 1mm no thicker, get a really sharp knife 23:40:14 I would love to be able to scoff beef mince raw 23:40:25 I'm definitely not into mince 23:40:29 That would be very practical and economical 23:40:35 but kangaroo is pure protein 23:40:46 I need me my fat 23:40:59 I actually cant work right without fat 23:41:03 I was eating liver raw for a while, I got used to that also, but it took more getting used to 23:41:58 again, really thin slices, they melt on your tongue 23:42:11 you dont get the chance to chew really 23:42:46 thick chunks of raw meat are way too hard unless youre a lion 23:52:36 --- join: rdrop-exit joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/19.11.25