00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.11.20 00:01:19 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 00:01:41 --- join: C-Keen joined #forth 00:05:00 --- quit: yunfan (Quit: WeeChat 2.3) 00:10:49 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 00:14:01 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 00:15:33 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 00:27:39 --- quit: oxford (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 00:34:38 --- quit: mtsd (Remote host closed the connection) 00:35:03 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 00:37:48 --- quit: mtsd (Client Quit) 00:45:37 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 00:59:59 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 01:02:10 --- join: oxford joined #forth 01:04:01 --- quit: mtsd (Remote host closed the connection) 01:04:52 --- join: mtsd joined #forth 01:54:27 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 01:56:10 tabemann, sounding good 02:01:56 --- join: yunfan joined #forth 02:05:52 --- join: jedb__ joined #forth 02:08:36 --- quit: jedb_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 02:36:05 --- join: xek joined #forth 02:45:53 --- join: iyzsong joined #forth 03:03:37 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:18:10 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 04:03:13 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 04:41:39 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 05:54:11 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 06:01:22 --- quit: iyzsong (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 06:19:27 --- nick: superjudge -> mjl 06:28:42 --- join: dddddd joined #forth 07:00:32 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 07:11:42 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: Leaving) 07:29:10 tp: yeah, it's nice to have when I have something that is hogging the terminal (making it hard to enter code) and I just want to make it stop so I can do something else 07:30:09 I just wait because that something is usually doing stuff ... 07:30:29 calculating primes ;-) 07:30:51 3713160 primes took 219927 ms (not printing the result) 07:33:17 thats on a stm32f103 clocking at 75MHz 07:33:18 my multitasking tests tend to be stupid stuff like repeatedly printing stuff and like 07:33:52 printing is a good visual test 07:34:13 Im always seeing mega screenfulls of data flying by 07:34:43 anyway, 02:30 here, long past my zzz time, cyaa! 07:34:47 okay, I've gotta get ready to go to work 07:34:49 bbl 07:34:55 g'night 07:35:28 --- quit: tabemann (Remote host closed the connection) 07:35:44 --- join: ryke joined #forth 07:40:15 --- quit: oxford (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 07:40:53 --- quit: nonlinear[m] (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 07:45:34 --- join: oxford joined #forth 09:16:09 --- join: xek_ joined #forth 09:18:19 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 09:54:00 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 11:24:43 --- join: dys joined #forth 11:43:17 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 13:22:16 --- join: TonySidaway joined #forth 13:29:12 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 13:30:40 --- join: xek__ joined #forth 13:32:49 --- quit: xek_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:02:24 --- join: jedb_ joined #forth 14:04:19 --- quit: TonySidaway (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:04:39 --- quit: jedb__ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:09:35 retro: #2 #15 * #12 + n:put 14:09:35 42 14:19:26 retro: { #8 #6 #7 #5 #9 #7 #8 #6 #6 #7 } #0 [ + ] a:reduce 14:19:47 retro: { #8 #6 #7 #5 #9 #7 #8 #6 #6 #7 } #0 [ + ] a:reduce n:put 14:19:47 69 14:19:50 ayy 14:25:08 Does retroforth-bot keep the stack or does it clear it after each message? 14:25:19 retro: n:put 14:25:19 ERROR (nga/rre_execute): Stack Limits Exceeded! 14:25:19 At 1048576, opcode 3. sp = -1 14:25:25 guess that answers that 14:35:08 --- join: xek_ joined #forth 14:37:13 --- quit: xek__ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:45:19 ryke: definitions are kept, the stack contents are not (yet; working on this) 14:54:42 --- quit: Jookia (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15:08:59 --- quit: xek_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:34:25 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:38:40 --- join: Jookia joined #forth 16:53:14 --- join: tabemann joined #forth 16:54:08 hey guys 16:54:24 hey tabemann ! 16:57:00 I realized a solution to how to make ctrl-C kill all activity without exiting 16:57:13 add the ability to send exceptions to tasks 16:57:29 and have the SIGINT handler send an abort exception to the main task 16:57:32 my stm32f103 was busy calculating 3713160 primes in a closed loop and I wanted to measure the local temperature which is on the same unit, then I remembered the push button switch that starts the temperature measurement, plus the timing delay loop are using interrupts, so when I pressed the button I got the temperature, the primes calc finished about 45 minutes later 16:57:48 tabemann, a push button ? 16:57:52 --- join: jedb__ joined #forth 16:58:22 SIGINT = ctrl-C 16:58:30 aha 16:58:48 my micro doesnt have a ctrl-C ;-) 16:59:19 if the push button causes an interrupt you could do the same 17:00:28 once I'm done with my latest improvements I plan on drastically stripping down hashforth to make something I'd call uhashforth 17:00:34 hahah 17:00:42 unhashforth ? 17:00:49 microhashforth 17:00:56 mashforth ? 17:01:12 --- quit: jedb_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 17:01:19 squishforth 17:02:07 the core of hashforth won't need that much in the way of changes, aside from stripping out all the POSIX stuff and splitting the token table into two parts 17:02:26 it's the "userland" of hashforth which'll need the changes 17:02:48 because the current userland is big and complex and contains lots of features 17:03:10 because C based and on a pc ? 17:03:39 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17:03:46 the core is in C regardless, but the userland while being in Forth tries to do big things 17:04:14 it's got a heap, it's got datastructures, it's got intertask communication mechanisms, it's got math routines 17:04:20 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 17:05:19 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 17:05:47 tabemann, sounds like gforth 17:09:06 it does 17:10:30 i subscribed to comp.lang.forth today after a break of a couple of years, (yes I was getting desperate for more Forth talk) and found about 50,000 posts to read :) 17:11:03 take away the trolls and nutters and it's probably down to 5000 posts, but thats still a lot 17:11:23 I'd forgotten how excellent Usenet can be 17:11:36 I forgot that Usenet even existed anymore 17:12:11 easy to do, especially as many ISPs have removed theirs 17:12:29 one needs payware access to get a decent one now 17:13:02 moderated forums are the norm now, you know "safe places" 17:14:00 while Usenet remains the Dodge City of free expression, if you dont like a poster for any reason you just KILL-file them 17:16:31 back 17:16:58 I remember that 17:17:04 plonk 17:17:49 heheh, youre not as young as I thought! 17:18:02 I'm in my thirties 17:18:17 I started using the interwebs in the mid-late nineties 17:18:21 ok, middle aged then :) 17:18:32 not quite that yet :) 17:18:35 I was only on in 1994 myself 17:18:59 and it was a unix shell account in Western Australia, thats all there was back then 17:19:09 browsing was out 17:19:17 as it was too data heavy 17:19:56 and modems were incredibly expensive, a 9600 baud modem was over $1000 aud 17:20:14 I remember using a shell account too 17:20:18 I had a 1200 baud modem at the time 17:20:35 I got on the interwebs specifically in 1997 or 1998 IIRC 17:20:40 one I borrowed from work to try out this new 'internet' thing 17:20:53 I even got a email from canter and siegel 17:21:03 whereas my family could afford a 56K modem 17:21:12 the worlds first 'spam' 17:21:30 we didnt even have 56k connections back then 17:21:35 in 94 17:21:53 9600 was it 17:22:57 how times have changed :) 17:23:06 I remember getting AOL disks in the mail, repeatedly 17:23:39 they made decent coasters 17:23:42 yeah, thats when usenet REALLY went downhill 17:23:56 once AOLers got online 17:24:08 the september that never ended 17:24:19 hahah, eternal september 17:24:56 SLRN is still a awesome newsreader 17:25:28 it's minuimally configured atm, just enuf to read, not to post 17:28:38 my family had a Mac and I used Usenent with Netscape's builtin newsreader until I got access to a shell account and then used Gnus in Emacs 17:29:46 --- quit: chunkypuffs (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in) 17:29:53 nice 17:30:06 first class all the way! 17:31:27 still use emacs as a editor ? 17:31:57 --- join: chunkypuffs joined #forth 17:32:44 yep 17:36:40 i really like the look of emacs and Im learning LISP, but I'm still using VIM as I kinda designed it into my Forth IDE 17:37:40 one thing - emac's lisp kinda sucks - it has dynamic scoping by default (even though it has optional lexical scoping) 17:39:19 OH! in that case I'll stay with VIM even tho I have no idea what "scoping" is ;-) 17:39:28 sounds bad tho ;) 17:40:41 lol 17:40:47 I see a lot of Linux coders raving about Microsoft's Visual Studio now as it's available for Linux, but FreeBSD hasn't fully gone over to the dark side yet 17:40:59 you're better off learning Scheme 17:41:45 I am, lisp/scheme 17:42:18 Im using Racket as my tool, havent done a lot yet as Im still heavily learning Forth 17:42:47 I remember seeing an april fools article once about how linux distros are dropping support for emacs in favor of visual studio code 17:43:02 I originally didn't realize that it was an april fools article 17:43:46 probably wont be long now that RMS is gone from the FSF 17:43:54 no it was vi 17:44:33 I think Linux already replaced vi with nano as default editor 17:44:41 https://hackaday.com/2019/04/01/bye-bye-vi-gnu-linux-distros-drop-support/ 17:45:08 I'm still pissed off about how they treated RMS 17:46:10 i know you are 17:46:14 he said something that could be construed as slightly insensitive - combined with some remarks that were a bit questionable in the distant past which some sjw dug up... 17:46:46 that AF article is very close to the truth, Ive installed Linux distros with NO vi, only nano 17:46:50 and mind you as presented in the media his words were presented out of context and terribly distorted 17:46:58 the first thing Id do was inatall vim 17:47:11 I've always installed emacs on my systems 17:47:36 of course, but getting rid of RMS was inevitable, he stands in the way of big biz 17:47:54 lookat RH, they make billions $$ from Linux 17:48:19 who else has done as much to fight for our freedom - sure, you might disagree with the GPL, but you can't disagree with that 17:48:26 microsoft is a platimum member of the "Linux Foundation" 17:48:37 hey, Im 1000% with you re RMS 17:48:59 no rms, no *bsd, no Linux 17:49:16 BSD took becoming free from the inspiration of the FSF 17:49:22 they were possible because of GCC, and RMS got RSI making Gcc 17:49:45 I've emailed with RMS in the past 17:50:02 but man has a short memory and his loyalty is to $$ 17:50:29 Im fully cognisant of what RMS has done for us 17:51:22 in this brave new world of identity politics RMS was doomed anyway 17:51:56 one wrong word and they would crucify Mother Teresa these days 17:51:56 I don't like the identity politics people and I consider myself to be well on the left of things 17:52:22 I'm similar, but either centre or right, and I own guns ! 17:52:47 what happened to stallman ? what should i google to find it? 17:53:08 scroll up 17:53:22 and owning guns in Australia is like being a paid up staff member of the NRA over there 17:53:38 don't google it - you'll get fuckloads of articles that terribly distort what happened 17:53:46 dave0, it's complicated, basically they got RMS to resign from the FSF 17:53:51 they'll say he sympathized with epstein 17:54:04 when he did nothing of the sort 17:54:30 they also ejected him from MIT, rendering him temporarily homeless 17:54:34 yeah, hes evil, a misogynist rapist apologist and smells bad! 17:54:48 (because he lived at MIT practically) 17:54:56 tp: ah! 17:55:07 sadly RMS was a easy target because he's so super intelligent 17:55:23 a sewer rat could eat RMS alive 17:55:30 and tehy did 17:55:32 they 17:56:00 tp:iisnt that AU and NZ had the policy to forbid owning gun? 17:56:13 what really happened was that RMS said that if Marvin Minsky had sex with one of Epstein's women (which there is no evidence of this actually happening), most likely said woman was coerced by Epstein into making it seem consensual 17:56:46 yunfan, they have tried, but one can still own a gun, even a handgun under very strict and complex conditions 17:56:49 and furthermore from a moral perspective, what's the difference between 17 or 18, as from a legal perspective that depends heavily on shit like the local laws 17:57:09 tabemann, is 100% correct, thats word for word what happened 17:57:37 tp:then how about the 3d print gun? 17:58:01 RMS was quoting the actual LAW, and he was right, but thats not important, because feelings are more important thesedays 17:58:13 yunfan, that was always a joke 17:58:36 a 3d printed gun would explode the first time you fired it 17:58:59 dave0, what tabemann and I are so annoyed about is the obvious fact that MIT did nothing to shield RMS from the inevitable 17:59:19 MIT just hung RMS out to dry 17:59:31 tabemann, is right again 18:00:06 a '3d gun' is a joke, it could be called a '3d self blinding and facial damage bomb" 18:00:23 tp:or high pressure gas gun? 18:01:00 and if someone shot me with a 0.22 short round from a '3d gun' Id strangle them, then go away and have a nice sleep while I slowly bled to death 18:01:43 yunfan, or aq fireworks 'cracker' in a bicycle pump using a marble as the projectile 18:01:52 the thing is that a 3d printer just can't produce something with the structural integrity to contain the pressure necessary to fire a projectile in such a fashion, regardless of whether the gasses are from a cartridge or from a tank of gas 18:02:23 yunfan, all are pretty silly compared to a cop carried 17 round 9mm Glock or a 30 round AR14 18:02:38 tabemann, exactly 18:03:44 any anyone who thinks a 3d 'gun' can, will be instantly dissuaded of that notion after firing my 0.357 magnum revolver *once* 18:06:20 tp:well the problem is your ar14 is build by a huge industry chain, which is not acceptaable by prepper 18:07:00 yunfan, the AR14 is made of metal in all the important parts, thats my point 18:07:11 and machined metal, not sintered metal 18:07:36 yunfan, in the USA, they have the right to make a gun for themselves only, they can use any machinery 18:07:48 if someone really wants to make their own gun, what they need is a CNC mill 18:08:01 unlike in Australia where we go to jail if we make any part of a firearm 18:08:02 not a 3D printer 18:08:09 exactly right 18:08:25 tp: i dislike this policy 18:08:43 and CNC mills are A) big and B) extremely expensive 18:09:03 no knowlegable gun person in the USA would use a 3d hot melt printer to make any part of a firearm 18:09:38 okay, I've gotta go - time for dinner 18:09:45 tabemann, thats right not sintered 3d 18:09:45 ttyl 18:09:52 tabemann, cya! 18:10:05 tabemann:really? i once saw from a reporting about us chinese underground gun factory, which use the mills just costs about 20k MRB 18:10:05 yunfan, which policy dont you like ? 18:10:07 RMB 18:10:16 tp:the AU policy on gun making 18:10:45 its just a month salary for average it worker 18:10:57 yunfan, I think tabemann meant general purpose NC mills, sure purpose built gun making mills are a LOT cheaper 18:11:09 if you really care of this abillity i think that machine is not expensive, since its cheaper than other's photographer :D 18:11:30 yunfan, we dont get a choice, the govt says, and we do. Same as in Hong Kong under the british 18:12:14 tp:wow, dont you have voting system? 18:12:22 yunfan, a purpose built machine for making a gun part would look just like the machines in a gun factory at Smith and Wesson, or Ruger etc 18:13:01 yunfan, sure, but that makes no real difgference 18:13:04 difference 18:13:25 yunfan, the key is that in australia voting is "compulsory" 18:13:34 if we dont vote we get fined 18:13:47 do you wonder why that law exists ? 18:14:20 just ask yourself this, woul you need to pass a law to force people to eat free icecream once a week ? 18:14:38 what if the icecream was horrible and made people sick ? 18:14:40 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 18:19:28 tp yes i heard of that 18:19:40 but when you were forced to vote, you could vote nay, isnt it? 18:20:14 it's like me passing a law that people who live within 1km of my house have to come to my birthday party or be fined $100 18:20:44 just so that people cant say 'tp has no friends because no one comes to his birthday parties' 18:21:22 well few would vote if it wasnt compulsory because australians feel that voting makes no difference, we only get more of the same 18:21:36 remember, our heritage is as a PENAL COLONY 18:21:52 australia was 'governed' from the start, no one voted 19:03:26 --- quit: Jookia (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 19:04:04 --- join: Jookia joined #forth 19:05:25 --- join: tabemann joined #forth 19:07:10 I just checked on the price of mills 19:07:26 * tp has a milling machine 19:07:37 and a lathe 19:07:47 they range from 500 USD on the low end to over half a million USD on the high end 19:07:52 mine are small and Chinese 19:08:12 yeah, a good one is german and *very* expensive 19:08:47 one can also expect to spend several thou on CAD/CAM software 19:09:01 mine is manual only 19:09:38 the mill I used as young man cost $100,000 in 1964, the accessories cabinet was another $100,000 19:09:51 but if you're making a gun you don't want a cheap mill 19:09:58 that was a manual mill, but with motorized drives, no cnc 19:10:07 and $100,000 was a lot more then than it is now 19:10:12 depends on the gun 19:10:16 hell yeah 19:10:43 arabs handmade all their own rifles with damascus steel, very accurate 19:11:03 tp: well yeah if you're making a musket you don't need to worry about tolerances 19:11:05 americans handmade all their own muskets after the war of independence 19:11:33 it was illegal to buy any gun parts from outside the USA back then 19:11:53 if you're making a gas-operated automatic rifle... then tolerances matter 19:11:57 the govt wanted a home grown arms industry ... I guess that worked out better than expected 19:12:12 oh yeah, a semi auto is another kind of gun again 19:12:32 you wont see any gas operated 3d plastic guns 19:12:59 even a gas operated commercial rifle (or handgun) can be problematic 19:13:10 yeah 19:13:45 i prefer revolvers myself, Ive had them all and revolvers are better in many ways, but not all 19:14:19 they can't hold as many rounds, but they're fundamentally simpler - and being simpler means less ways in which they can fail 19:14:23 a jammed 30 shot AR14 is no better than a club 19:14:31 exactly 19:14:43 also very accurate when made properly 19:15:19 my last revolver was a S&W 7 shot 9mm with a titanium cylinder 19:15:19 also, if you want accuracy, you don't want to skimp on your mill 19:15:56 oh yeah, but even a expensive mill has to be calibrated 19:16:01 yes 19:16:05 and kept calibrated 19:16:47 basically any new mill under $100k is going to be cheap and nasty to some degree 19:16:54 yeah 19:17:13 I mean, allow $5000 just to have it fitted in the workshop 19:17:36 nothing cheap about a good mill 19:18:07 but thats a GP mill, a gun making jig can be a lot simpler and cheaper 19:18:48 and a craftsman could make a far more accurate rifle by hand using hand made jigs I think 19:19:15 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 19:19:34 it's only a rifle, and theyre fairly simple and all mechanical ... or used o be 19:20:18 the part I wonder about is the complexity of the receiver 19:20:19 nowadays the electronic Linux powered scopes are allowing a person who has never fired a gun before, to hit a man target at 1000 yards, first shot (lapua 338) 19:20:41 the barrel itself should be trivial 19:21:02 well they are, and many methods to rifle them exist 19:21:35 the receiver can also be simple depending on design 19:22:03 I have a .357 Winchester 1873 lever action rifle and it's pretty simple 19:22:33 it's also simply AWESOME, the smoothest most reliable rifle Ive ever owned 19:22:36 well yeah, bolt action or lever action receivers are going to be simpler than, say, gas-operated ones 19:22:39 it holds 16 rounds 19:23:05 in 1873 it would have been the equivalent of a 40w pulse laser rifle I think 19:23:16 thos chambered in BP 44/40 back then 19:23:53 i can shoot it in any orientation a sthe round is entirely captive until ejected 19:24:42 about that lapua 338 I remember that the white death preferred iron sights because they allowed him to keep his head lower and wouldn't glint light off any lens 19:25:00 ahh, good point 19:25:19 my 1873 has iron sights 19:25:38 I'm good to 100m, I havent bothered beyond that 19:26:08 it's not a .308 or a lapua thos 19:26:30 but there is almost no recoil even with a .357 mag at full power 19:26:39 it's a beautiful rifle 19:28:45 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 19:30:15 how do you manage to keep guns in australia - I thought they were pretty much banned? 19:30:35 in my case, target shooting 19:30:55 thats the only way to own a handgun 19:34:52 are there special requirements for storage (e.g at a gun club), or do you just need to, say, keep it in a safe somewhere? 19:35:45 very specific laws 19:36:11 they cover type of safe, construction, where it can be kept and police come and test it 19:36:59 this only applies to law abiding taxpayers, criminals of course keep their guns wherever they like 19:39:22 * tabemann is annoyed that sending an abort exception to the main task isn't working 19:40:05 not easy to debug I guess ? 19:43:12 sending exceptions to other task is working 19:44:01 of course ;-) 19:44:24 sending them to the main task is also working outside the context of the SIGINT handler 19:48:51 okay 19:48:56 I am so incredibly stupid 19:49:11 I put my exception sender call in the alarm handler, not the SIGINT handler 19:49:16 lol 19:49:50 I'm glad to hear it, I was beginning to think I was the only incredibly stupid dev in the world 19:50:05 you're not incredibly stupid 19:50:33 hahah, you orta be watching over my shoulder here sometimes! 19:51:09 I'm realising that lots of complex code does give rise to stupid errors 19:51:27 some of mine lately have been like WTF!!!! 19:51:38 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 19:51:57 and I keep making the one really stupid error regarding gnu screen log generation 19:53:09 I keep forgetting that gnuscreen does it's own thing and if I start the log collecting data from a script, and just do something else after I've started the script, the log will only be 20 lines long and potentially miss thousands of lines 19:53:55 when it's started by a script, the screen log process detaches and frees the script right away 19:54:56 that's not really a stupid error 19:55:46 it is the 10th time i do it! 19:56:12 Im so used to a sub process remaining tied to teh script 19:57:02 i guess this is true multitasking at work ? 19:59:39 well in the POSIX world there is normally a hierarchical relation between tasks, and only daemons and tasks created at the session level are typically "free" 20:00:07 unless one runs a task with & to detach it 20:01:09 exactly 20:01:48 these are screen 'sessions' which are additional to the main screen task 20:02:01 which is why I use screen 20:02:46 it's taken some getting used to on my part, I just have to remember to deal with the differences 20:04:19 --- quit: jsoft (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 20:04:54 here we go ... dfu-util -i 0 -a 0 -s 0x08000000 -D ./mecrisp-quintus-gd32vf103cb-with-disassembler-and-math.bin 20:08:50 File downloaded successfully 20:09:12 ok, now to connect a terminal 20:38:10 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 20:44:47 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 21:08:54 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 21:52:25 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 22:16:37 anyone here got any good guides on writing early-boot code for an aarch64 device? 22:16:55 it sounds like u-boot already runs on it, if that makes it significantly easier 22:51:08 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 22:56:32 remexre: you could use the u-boot api 23:10:55 --- join: xek_ joined #forth 23:31:13 --- join: dys joined #forth 23:38:16 Jookia: I gave the manual a skim, but it looked to mostly be Linux-specific; I was mostly hoping someone had a simple example (like a hello world that didn't rely on u-boot's console functions) 23:39:05 remexre: that's what the API does, it provides console functions 23:39:32 it might also provide access to the device tree, not sure 23:39:38 oh, I thought you meant the commands that are available over serial 23:41:52 I dunno, I kinda want to get everything working without being reliant on the bootloader 23:42:07 like making "real" bare-metal x64 vs an EFI app 23:43:19 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 23:43:21 ah 23:43:27 well u-boot provides the ability to load things in to memory and jump to it 23:43:33 so you could use that 23:44:29 yeah, the manual's just less specific than I'd like about what the environment looks like afterwards 23:44:30 that's a bit like a bare-metal x64 app 23:44:45 I don't even have the arm board yet so I'm trying to avoid reading too much src now 23:45:05 more trying to collect pdfs; like if there were an equivalent of the multiboot spec for uboot, that'd be ideal 23:45:34 u-boot has a bunch of documentation in its doc/ DIR 23:46:19 it also depends on your u-boot configuration 23:46:20 ah, I'll check there 23:46:48 i know that for the most part the CPU instruction and data caches get enabled by u-boot 23:46:50 and RAM set up 23:47:19 but you can just write your own bootloader if you want providing you have the SoC's reference manual 23:47:46 u-boot also serves as the machine's BIOS and stuff 23:49:23 remexre: the main thing you're expected to do as an OS is read through the flattened device tree 23:49:31 this contains info about the board hardware and bootargs 23:50:34 okay, I've seen device trees before, but never actually delved into one 23:50:54 I guess that's probably to-read #1 23:50:58 absolutely 23:51:13 but device trees are just a tree of nodes that explain hardware properties 23:51:31 ie, what driver is compatible, and memory addresses 23:51:42 or buses the hardware is connected to 23:52:58 so in theory, hello world would just scan that for uart0, send out "hello world", then infinite loop? 23:53:03 or am I missing a step somewhere 23:54:19 yes, though it depends on how much a driver you write for it. let me get an example of my device's device tree 23:55:19 http://ix.io/22pe 23:55:23 that's uart1 on the imx6qdl SoC 23:56:05 (a board device tree will set it to enabled) 23:57:23 huh, ok 23:57:38 u-boot will likely initialize it already 23:58:43 --- join: jsoft joined #forth 23:59:05 and you'd have to look at the refernce manual or other drivers for that specific piece of hardware 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/19.11.20