00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.11.02 00:00:17 I'm still learning it, too early for me to say 00:01:17 until Ive written a few small useful PC applications in Lisp I wont have a opinion 00:02:07 "(= '((f a1) a2) '(f a1 a2))": "[define (square) (dup *)]" like in Forth? 00:05:11 I'm a technician not a programmer so I dont understand any of that, I've only started at a very basic lisp intro level so far 00:05:49 [[youtu.be/OyfBQmvr2Hc][The Most Beautiful Program Ever Written]]. 00:05:57 I'm spending all my time on Forth the last few months, mainly working on my develop environment 00:07:41 That presentation is a very interesting introduction to Lisp. 00:09:20 I've just started reading 'the little lisper' I'm on about page 2 I think ... 00:09:29 You must also see [[http://metamodular.com/closos.pdf][CLOSOS Specification of a Lisp operating system]]! ;) 00:09:55 woo, getting way too far ahead of myself there! 00:10:23 Well, for a start You must not forget about it ;) . 00:10:55 Im a tech that uses Forth on embedded to make small devices and my other programming interests proceed slowly 00:11:18 Ive recorded the first link, recording the second one now 00:11:36 oops dl the second one (pdf now) 00:12:05 I guess that The Little Lisper (AFAIK) deliberately makes some mistakes to make the reader think! 00:12:59 hmm, maybe they just make some mistakes ? 00:13:32 I'm determined to learn LISP, but it's a low priority atm, so much to do, so little time! 00:17:40 I see, and I expected that. IMHO Byrds presentation should be the first step. I guess You could do it on some break ;) . 00:18:29 ""Everybody can learn Lisp in one day, except if they know FORTRAN it will take three days. "" -- Marvin Minsky 00:18:36 hahah 00:18:55 ok, I'll watch Byrds presentation first 00:20:29 what got me interestedd inlearning lisp was this explanation of 'list processing' http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/lisp.html 00:38:25 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 01:04:07 c[] 01:05:33 welcome back! rdrop-exit 01:05:54 Thanks tp! :) 01:06:41 Ive finally developed a strategy of sorts to deal with cortex-m interrupts, they are as confusing as their versatility 01:07:57 cool 01:09:05 I see massive confusion among the C crowd on this, but forth does make infinitely easier to test 01:13:19 Will you write it up on your blog? 01:14:03 absolutely, thats where all my notes go 01:14:19 excellent 01:59:33 hey 02:00:15 * tabemann discovered that ** in python doesn't follow the traditional mathematical definition of the power function 02:00:16 hiya tabemann 02:00:39 hi tabemann 02:00:45 >>> -1.0 ** 2.0 02:00:45 -1.0 02:01:33 >>> 0.0 ** 0.0 02:01:33 1.0 02:01:58 the first should be 1.0, and the second should be a domain error 02:03:42 >>> -2.0 ** 0.5 02:03:43 -1.4142135623730951 02:03:55 this last one is actually a complex number 02:04:23 because it's literally equivalent to math.sqrt(-2.0) 02:04:48 I'm treating it as a domain error because I'm not implementing complex numbers 02:06:00 okay, I should stop hacking away at my math routines and go to bed 02:08:06 hard to stop when youre in the groove! 02:10:01 I think it was a good idea that I made generalized precision math routines for fixed-point 02:10:23 because now I can change the precision just by executing set-precision 02:10:47 and then my functions like exp, ln, sin, cos, f**, etc. will all use the new precision 02:15:33 okay, time to go to bed for real now 02:34:48 Sweet dreams tabemann 03:05:37 --- quit: jn__ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:12:44 --- join: jn__ joined #forth 03:14:00 ((-1.0) ** (2.0))!! 03:18:12 More accurately ""operator.pow(operator.neg(1.0) ,2.0)"". 03:19:49 As prophesized by Paul Graham, they have... discovered almost a bit of Lisp. 03:23:37 haha 03:24:17 eventually python will become lisp ? 03:36:56 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 03:50:42 Will not. Asymptote of the ""progress"" is a constant function. 04:27:13 tabemann: That's horrible that Python thinks -1 ** 2 is -1. 04:28:22 But I do think I've encountered 0 ** 0 being *defined* as 1 here and there. The "rules" there are "0^n = 0" and "n^0 = 1"; I guess it's debateable which should win. 04:29:05 I think there is no excuse for -1 ** 2 being negative, though - that just seems WRONG to me. 04:31:25 Note that -1 * -1 = 1 in Python. 04:31:40 But -1 ** 2 and -1 * -1 are exactly the same thing, mathematically! 04:32:04 --- join: dys joined #forth 04:32:21 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 04:33:09 On the other hand, 04:33:20 >>> pow(-1, 2) 04:33:22 1 04:33:25 >>> 04:33:39 The documentation says that ** has the same semantics as pow(), but obviously not. 04:33:43 I think that is a BUG. 04:33:55 * DKordic : 05:22:13 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 06:30:20 --- join: TonySidaway joined #forth 06:39:43 --- join: dddddd joined #forth 07:00:45 --- quit: iyzsong (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in) 07:11:58 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Quit: Lost terminal) 07:43:48 --- join: proteus-guy joined #forth 07:45:25 --- quit: chunkypuffs (Remote host closed the connection) 07:54:39 --- join: chunkypuffs joined #forth 08:05:23 --- quit: cartwright (Remote host closed the connection) 08:07:49 --- join: cartwright joined #forth 08:30:25 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 10:42:33 --- join: john_cephalopoda joined #forth 11:05:44 --- join: cheater joined #forth 11:45:00 --- join: f-a joined #forth 12:25:03 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 13:10:04 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 13:19:41 Vim is being a pest. Is there a master switch to make it turn off all the "helpful enhancements" and go back to being a simple editor like Unix vi? 13:20:46 TonySidaway: which kind of enhancements 13:21:19 I turned off syntax highlighting, which made the screen unreadable, but now it insists on going back to a search I did in a previous edit. I just want it to go to the first line and wait for me to ask it to do things. 13:22:13 I should not have to declare war on my editor like this. It's supposed to do what I want. 13:23:16 This is in a free shell account that runs a GNU system of some sort. 13:47:01 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 13:54:20 I could always use Emacs, I suppose. 13:54:46 Or write on in Forth/Retro. 13:55:04 *one 13:55:18 I've written at least one. Haven't we all? :) 13:55:43 I usually use nano for CLI text editing. Simple to use and slim. 13:55:59 (Geany for GUI stuff) 13:59:28 Nano at least doesn't try to be clever. This system also had pico which is reminiscent of the built-in editor in the old alpine email client. 14:03:49 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 14:06:33 just use ed. It has almost no features. 14:07:15 Looking at e3, which apparently had a vi mode (though it defaults to Wordstar) 14:08:37 Yep, that does all I need without any fuss. Sold. 14:10:18 My eyes don't react well too distractions, I like plain text and a cursor. Many editors seem to want to overload the screen with other stuff. 14:11:48 --- quit: f-a (Quit: leaving) 14:12:12 Syntax highlighting really puzzles me. I actually learned these languages so I know the syntax. Highlighting only makes it more difficult for me to read it. 14:20:47 I like it. Having certain things marked can let the eye flow better. 14:24:47 It's obviously a problem with my eyes. Colour blindness may factor in there. When I'm reading I can't readily cope with marked changes of visual texture. Occasional italics or capitals are fine. Switching to and from reverse video or different colours doesn't. I have to squint to even see the highlit word, let alone read it. 14:26:44 My IRC client highlights nicks, which is okay, but I wish it wouldn't. Bold is better for that purpose. 14:27:22 Instead they're in colour, though at least the background colour doesn't change. 14:29:58 e3 is usable but it isn't ideal. I'm seriously considering using emacs, which is a better editor anyway. Vi is just so handy for quick edits that I've been favouring it for the past decade or so. 15:05:55 --- quit: TonySidaway (Quit: TonySidaway) 15:23:02 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 15:43:58 --- quit: jdavidboyd (Remote host closed the connection) 15:44:38 --- join: jdavidboyd joined #forth 16:00:41 --- quit: jdavidboyd (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 16:08:17 --- join: ryke joined #forth 17:00:16 --- join: bluekelp joined #forth 17:25:25 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 17:49:55 --- quit: john_cephalopoda (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 18:02:54 --- join: john_cephalopoda joined #forth 18:43:17 --- join: cheater joined #forth 18:59:51 --- join: f-a joined #forth 19:33:44 --- quit: reepca (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 19:41:06 --- join: iyzsong joined #forth 19:50:36 --- join: rdrop-exit joined #forth 19:53:51 --- join: reepca joined #forth 20:42:27 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 20:54:46 --- join: mark4 joined #forth 20:59:29 --- quit: mark4 (Client Quit) 21:38:26 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 21:38:49 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:39:01 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 21:54:24 --- join: X-Scale` joined #forth 21:55:10 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 21:55:10 --- nick: X-Scale` -> X-Scale 22:18:21 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 22:23:37 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 22:34:36 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Quit: Lost terminal) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/19.11.02