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06:11:40 <creat1001> Question: How impotant is interactive forth entry to most? If you are writting a new forth based system, would you add it?
06:12:26 <WilhelmVonWeiner> es
06:12:27 <WilhelmVonWeiner> yes
06:12:52 <WilhelmVonWeiner> the ability to live test your code is one of the strengths of developing in Forth
06:13:13 <creat1001> key by key or line by line?
06:13:42 <WilhelmVonWeiner> on you
06:14:35 <WilhelmVonWeiner> but having that live environment is a big part of what makes development quikc
06:14:36 <creat1001> I am planning on line entry, but wanted to skip key entry to not have things like curses or windows extras compiled in
06:15:25 <WilhelmVonWeiner> yeah that makes sense
06:15:42 <creat1001> Thanks. line only then.
06:17:07 <creat1001> I have not gotten a lot done as of late. Real work gets in the way :(
06:19:33 <creat1001> I did win an award last week for code I did 2 years past at work though, suprisingly. 
06:20:39 <creat1001> For code I wrote out of being my lazy normal self.
06:22:34 <WilhelmVonWeiner> an award? from who
06:23:43 <creat1001> My company. I was nominated and won
06:23:55 <WilhelmVonWeiner> that's cool as
06:30:35 <crc> creat1001: I seldom use interactive forth entry; I mostly work with either file editor or block editor, but both have facilities for running the code quickly
06:31:13 <creat1001> Thanks crc
06:33:06 <creat1001> it would be easier as file in for testing for me. Mulling...
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06:36:06 <crc> (my current environment has an editor view on the left, output on the right top, and profiling data on the bottom right)
06:38:01 <rdrop-exit> Conversational development is a hallmark of Forth
06:38:04 <creat1001> nice.
06:43:12 <creat1001> I need to decide on what ending I am going to stor cells in. 
06:43:27 <rdrop-exit> My Forths tend to have a key loop
06:43:41 <rdrop-exit> You mean endianess?
06:44:25 <creat1001> yes.
06:45:21 <rdrop-exit> You're writing a machine independent Forth?
06:46:18 <creat1001> On top of my VM, but yes independent.
06:47:12 <rdrop-exit> I prefer little-endian
06:47:18 <crc> same here
06:48:38 <rdrop-exit> With little endian you can use b@ 16@ 32@ on a 64-bit memory cell
06:49:04 <rdrop-exit> (as well as @)
06:49:40 <rdrop-exit> very convenient
06:51:05 <rdrop-exit> especially when dealing with circular buffers
06:52:00 <rdrop-exit> (b! 16! 32!)
06:52:04 <creat1001> I am LE now, and will keep and convert nativly as needed then
06:55:07 <rdrop-exit> bbl
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06:56:19 <WilhelmVonWeiner> bye-bye lovelies?
06:56:35 <creat1001> nein
06:57:09 <WilhelmVonWeiner> whatever happened to old boy
06:57:18 <WilhelmVonWeiner> who would always say 'yer' and similar words
06:57:39 <WilhelmVonWeiner> can't remember his name
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07:07:58 <crc> bbl = be back later
07:08:09 <crc> WilhelmVonWeiner: Poppavic ?
07:10:30 <crc> he was last here on august 19th:   19.08.19:20:15:45 --- part: PoppaVic left #forth
07:15:18 <WilhelmVonWeiner> yes, poppavic
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07:30:53 <creat1001> Are you gus Linux users?
07:31:00 <WilhelmVonWeiner> me, personally, yes
07:31:04 <WilhelmVonWeiner> and OpenBSD
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07:31:40 <creat1001> Did you see the stupid sudo bug?
07:32:02 <WilhelmVonWeiner> it's only kinda stupid 
07:32:04 <WilhelmVonWeiner> but yeah
07:32:22 * jackdaniel imagines a giantic bug created with a command: `sudo bug'
07:32:50 <WilhelmVonWeiner> ATTACK of the 50-FOOT SUPER(USER) ROACH
07:33:33 <WilhelmVonWeiner> creat1001: the bug was weird because you had to give someone permissions to sudo into any user, _except_ root
07:33:37 <WilhelmVonWeiner> which is nonsense
07:34:10 <creat1001> Hmm, my old nas is freebsd and I have sudo on it. No big deal I guess.
07:34:35 <creat1001> But you would get root access
07:35:12 <WilhelmVonWeiner> again: you had to give someone permissions to sudo into any user, _except_ root
07:35:52 <WilhelmVonWeiner> so i probably wouldn't get root on your nas
07:35:55 <WilhelmVonWeiner> not via sudo, anyhow
07:36:14 <creat1001> I must have read it wrong then yesterday. I do have reading issues...
07:37:06 <WilhelmVonWeiner> no, most outlets covered it poorly
07:37:16 <WilhelmVonWeiner> https://lobste.rs/s/zirgzc/sudo_flaw_lets_linux_users_run_commands_as
07:37:41 <creat1001> https://threatpost.com/sudo-bug-root-access-linux/149169/
07:38:10 <creat1001> I am reading there now. Not sure where from yesterday
07:57:58 <crc> I have one linux server, but this won't be a problem there. the only account that can use sudo is mine
07:58:31 * crc should look at switching to doas on the linux box to keep it more consistent with the openbsd one
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08:02:07 <WilhelmVonWeiner> I considered it, but have no reason to go through the process of changing something that works
08:02:38 <WilhelmVonWeiner> not a great excuse but you know, you're changing between OSes, changing between sudo/doas seems reasonable enough
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14:39:09 <lisbeths> for word definitions that are not primitives, how are integers encoded in the word definition?
14:39:34 <lisbeths> is there a special word that says the next item in the definition is not a pointer to a word but an integer?
14:40:17 <inode> LIT?
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14:40:34 <lisbeths> I do not understand your question, can you reword it?
14:41:05 <inode> have you encountered the LIT word?
14:41:17 <lisbeths> No not until this point.
14:42:25 <lisbeths> is that the same as this: https://forth-standard.org/standard/core/LITERAL ?
14:44:12 <inode> yes looks about right
14:44:51 <lisbeths> So inside the threaded word definition it should contain the pointer to literal followed by an integer or pointer to push to the stack correct?
14:46:20 <lisbeths> : x x literal ; => [ word-name - flags - literal x return ]
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14:48:56 <ryke> literal and lit are different actually
14:49:46 <ryke> literal is a high level definition while lit (or whatever your implementation's equivalent would be) is low level
14:50:29 <ryke> literal will typically compile down to lit however
14:51:20 <lisbeths> Well I am getting very close to moving my forth over from c to assembler but I need to figure out how lit works
14:51:44 <lisbeths> or not even how it works but how a word definition that includes lit is encoded
14:59:22 <ryke> in my current implementation I encode numbers as a pointer to lit's token followed by the number itself. when executed, lit will look at the memory address following the PC (ie the number to push), push it, and then adjust the pc to continue at the location immediately following where the number was stored
15:00:50 <lisbeths> alright sounds good
15:01:12 <ryke> I'm sure there are other ways to do it, but that's what was most intuitive to me
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