00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.10.10 00:23:00 --- quit: MrMobius (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00:40:43 --- join: mtsd (~mtsd@77.110.61.100) joined #forth 01:16:54 I don't think so really 01:17:06 because it's proprietary ANS Forth 01:17:29 two in the hand that would've been better off in the bush, to butcher a sensical quote 01:33:54 --- quit: mtsd (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 01:38:01 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 01:40:01 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 01:46:20 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection) 01:46:51 --- join: mtsd (~mtsd@77.110.61.100) joined #forth 01:50:23 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h62-133-183-231.dyn.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 02:32:02 --- join: andrei-n (~andrei-n@203.160-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) joined #forth 03:34:32 --- join: xek_ (~xek@apn-37-248-138-200.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl) joined #forth 04:06:16 --- join: retroforth-bot2 (~retrofort@forth.works) joined #forth 04:12:57 --- join: dave0 (~davezero@069.d.003.ncl.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 04:17:48 --- quit: dave0 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 04:22:08 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: Leaving) 04:22:24 --- quit: retroforth-bot2 (Remote host closed the connection) 04:24:00 --- quit: jn__ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 04:35:22 --- join: jn__ (~nope@aftr-109-90-233-87.unity-media.net) joined #forth 05:00:42 --- join: dave0 (~davezero@069.d.003.ncl.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 05:07:04 --- join: iyzsong (~iyzsong@fsf/member/iyzsong) joined #forth 05:10:27 --- quit: dave0 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:15:04 --- join: MrMobius (~default@c-73-134-82-217.hsd1.va.comcast.net) joined #forth 05:15:47 --- join: dave0 (~davezero@069.d.003.ncl.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 05:29:57 --- quit: dave0 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:35:19 --- join: dave0 (~davezero@069.d.003.ncl.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 05:35:42 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 05:35:57 --- quit: dave0 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:37:38 --- quit: rpcope (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:41:24 --- join: dave0 (~davezero@069.d.003.ncl.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 05:49:27 --- quit: dave0 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:39:02 --- quit: iyzsong (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in) 07:20:40 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-111-105.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 07:36:11 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 08:07:24 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Quit: Lost terminal) 08:09:56 --- quit: clog (^C) 08:09:56 --- log: stopped forth/19.10.10 08:10:11 --- log: started forth/19.10.10 08:10:11 --- join: clog joined #forth 08:10:11 --- topic: 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN backup at http://forthworks.com/forth/irc-logs/ | If you have two (or more) stacks and speak RPN then you're welcome here! | https://github.com/mark4th' 08:10:11 --- topic: set by proteusguy!~proteusgu@cm-58-10-209-120.revip7.asianet.co.th on [Wed Jun 26 09:13:14 2019] 08:10:11 --- names: list (clog dys dddddd MrMobius jn__ xek_ andrei-n gravicappa reepca remexre notzmv cheater lonjil dzho koisoke yunfan gabc cmtptr fiddlerwoaroof_ X-Scale inode deesix jedb tp pareidolia presiden jimt[m] nonlinear[m] siraben Keshl chunkypuffs irsol cp cartwright +crc jpsamaroo +KipIngram dave9 APic dne djinni_ diginet2 superjudge +proteusguy DKordic ovf arrdem catern mstevens louisg bluekelp ecraven Lord_Nightmare malyn jackdaniel WilhelmVonWeiner Kumool C-Keen dbucklin) 08:10:11 --- names: list (rann amuck guan jhei nonlinear pointfree phadthai rprimus alex4nder) 10:33:44 --- join: retroforth-bot joined #forth 11:58:04 --- quit: deesix (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 11:58:35 --- quit: dddddd (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 11:59:48 --- join: dddddd joined #forth 11:59:52 --- join: deesix joined #forth 12:03:42 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 12:05:53 --- join: WickedShell_ joined #forth 12:07:04 --- quit: andrei-n (Remote host closed the connection) 12:31:18 --- join: ryke joined #forth 12:55:48 good afternoon 13:12:01 --- quit: WickedShell (Quit: Leaving) 13:12:27 --- quit: WickedShell_ (Remote host closed the connection) 13:12:47 --- join: WickedShell joined #forth 13:16:58 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:47:26 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 14:04:19 --- join: ryke joined #forth 14:23:12 --- quit: xek_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 15:00:25 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:30:38 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:36:48 --- quit: inode (Quit: ) 15:42:57 --- join: jedb_ joined #forth 15:45:18 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 16:18:53 --- join: tabemann joined #forth 16:19:03 --- join: dave0 joined #forth 16:50:27 --- quit: reepca (Remote host closed the connection) 16:50:57 --- join: reepca joined #forth 16:53:55 --- quit: tp (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:53:55 --- join: tpbsd joined #forth 16:56:28 --- join: karswell joined #forth 17:40:34 --- nick: tpbsd -> tp 17:50:38 --- quit: chunkypuffs (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in) 17:50:58 --- join: ryke joined #forth 17:51:19 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 17:53:39 --- join: chunkypuffs joined #forth 17:54:17 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:55:26 --- join: karswell joined #forth 18:11:32 --- quit: chunkypuffs (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in) 18:11:40 --- join: chunkypuffs joined #forth 18:27:43 --- join: tabemann joined #forth 18:57:51 --- join: jedb__ joined #forth 19:00:25 --- quit: jedb_ (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 19:06:59 --- join: rdrop-exit joined #forth 20:06:51 --- quit: Keshl (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 20:27:15 --- join: Keshl joined #forth 21:22:55 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 21:24:07 --- join: karswell joined #forth 21:24:52 c[] 21:25:41 morning oh great coffee addict!~ 21:25:56 make that afternoon 21:26:25 --- quit: dddddd (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:26:32 --- quit: deesix (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 21:26:37 Hi tp! :) 21:29:32 --- join: dddddd joined #forth 21:31:29 gahh, I was just advised by a Forth beginner to "You should have gotten a Picaxe 08M (8 Dip) just to try out the DS18B20.They have a single dedicated 'word-command' just for it ~ Readtemp." after asking me what I thought of the 16B20 (I think it's ancient and hard to use) 21:31:50 oops 18B20 21:32:06 it's a dallas 'one wire' temperature sensor 21:33:13 I remember you mentioning it before, or maybe I read about on your site 21:33:42 --- join: deesix joined #forth 21:34:55 I havent used it, I spent a few days trying to understand the DS18B20 then had a Forth app running with the Ti LMT01 2 wire sensor in a few hours 21:36:41 I dunno what compelled the Forth learner to think I'd be interested in Basic on Pic in a ancient 8 pin DIP package! 21:37:33 thats like suggesting a runner might like to run with one leg tied behind his back and a blindfold 21:37:43 :)) 21:38:33 I'm going to have to learn how to tell if people wanting Forth help really want to learn Forth 21:39:24 this guy is possibly still in love with the ancient "picaxe" 21:49:08 tp: [[https://twobithistory.org/2018/10/14/lisp.html][How Lisp Became God's Own Programming Language]] 21:51:08 ∀ Hi. 21:51:24 Hi DKordic 21:51:32 * reading lisp article 21:58:22 It's funny I never liked Lisp, nor SICP 22:01:52 They say Forthers treat Forth as a religion, but its a more apt description for Lispers and fanatics of functional programming 22:02:43 I think it's pretty true for both camps honestly 22:02:52 Maybe moreso for Lisp 22:03:36 DKordic, ta! 22:04:15 frankly the worst cases of programming religion I see are C and C++ 22:04:31 I find lispers are very friendly to forthers 22:05:00 remember what happened to the Internet when AOL came online ? 22:05:13 the same happened to programming with 'arduino' 22:05:48 Remember the online service from Sears? 22:06:05 arduino people are referring to "arduino" as a programming language now 22:06:23 not me,too young or maybe too australian ? 22:07:14 Hey since people are around (and reminiscing) does anyone here do anything with SwiftForth? 22:07:19 tp: ""But they wouldn't have much of a point, wouldn't they!? "" – Lisper 22:07:24 Prodigy, that was it 22:07:31 tp, idk man that IDE does so many weird things for them that it might as well be it's own little language/oddity :P 22:07:53 WickedShell, good point! 22:08:10 Not a SwiftForth user 22:08:24 WickedShell, not me. Swiftforth is proprietary 22:08:52 darn. Their docs are pretty good overall, but calling stuff in loaded libraries skipped a couple of relevant things :) 22:09:03 tp honestly I'm not fussed about that stuff anymore, I used to be :) 22:09:18 At this point I just want it to be maintained, and relatively performant :) 22:09:42 I've really only played with gforth and swiftforth on desktops, and swiftforth seemed a heck of a lot better there 22:09:48 But I'm not invested either way 22:10:13 IIRC SwiftForth is their desktop Forth, SwiftX is the one they do most of their business with I think 22:10:24 WickedShell, I've bought my share of proprietary software, but it always ended badly. I only want the source and I only get that with open 22:10:48 My Forths are proprietary, they're mine ;) 22:11:00 tp, they actually claim they include source at their top price point :) But I haven't tried it 22:12:53 WickedShell, personally I have HUGE respect for forth.inc and Elizabeth Rather, Im sure it would be among the best of the best of proprietary Forth 22:14:06 WickedShell, if youre after "well maintained, and relatively performant" I doubt you could do better than Swiftforth 22:14:46 I'd say go with SwiftX instead, it probably includes SwiftForth on the host side anyways 22:14:58 WickedShell, Ive never used it but I have corresponded with Elizabeth Rather and she rules! 22:15:31 SwiftX is all embedded targets as far as I can tell, so not sure that follows for what I'm chasing 22:15:37 SwiftForth for Windows, Linux, and macOS. 22:15:38 Interactive Development Environment 22:15:38 SwiftForth brings the fast, powerful, ANS Forth programming language to Windows, Linux, and macOS. 22:15:48 Unless you're just banking on it coming with the full desktop side available for their IDE? 22:15:49 SwiftX Forth embedded systems 22:15:50 Forth Cross Compilers 22:15:50 Interactive hosted development environment for embedded systems on a wide range of microcontrollers and microprocessors. 22:16:22 The main problem with SwiftX for me is just I don't normally run a windows box except for games... 22:16:53 SwiftX is umbilical, I would assume they're using SwiftForth for the host side of the umbilical. 22:17:16 --- join: gravicappa joined #forth 22:17:24 really, no standalone swiftx ? 22:17:37 Id have assumed they can do both 22:17:39 I doubt they do hardly any business at all on the desktop Forth 22:18:24 rdrop-exit, haven't you heard ... this is the "year of the Forth Desktop" ! 22:18:36 ;-) 22:19:38 it depends on how much you decide to put on the target 22:19:54 I assume 22:20:39 "SwiftX is an interactive development environment (IDE) and cross compiler for developing code to run on microcontrollers and microprocessors." 22:21:05 yeah, that does imply 'tethered' 22:21:45 As with most umbilicals, you can have anything from a tiny monitor to a full blown standalone Forth on the target. 22:22:29 You're really dealing with two Forths in an umbilical/tethered setup. 22:24:02 yeah the host and the client 22:24:18 If you're willing to call a monitor a tiny Forth, as in Sergeant's 3-instruction Forth. 22:24:20 i have a tethered Forth I use for MSP430 22:24:50 I've also run Sergant's "riscypygness" 22:24:59 With JTAG you can even get away without a monitor. 22:25:16 which is tethered, pc-->cortexM3 22:27:33 --- quit: notzmv (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 22:28:01 You could even use a tethered approach for desktop work, start the target executable off with a monitor, and lay down object code live onto it. 22:28:53 a monitor for Forth ? 22:28:54 Kinda like using a debugger for desktop development. 22:29:15 a monitor using JTAG ? 22:30:00 I was just musing on doing tethered development of desktop apps. 22:30:08 I'm familiar with GDB over SWD for cortex-m, but thats the only debugger Ive ever used 22:30:11 aha 22:30:48 mecrisp-across uses JTAG to control the MSP430 Forth target from a Arm Cortex-M host 22:31:03 it's pretty slick, I quite like it 22:32:44 I sure it is, JTAG gives you much of the capabilities that you previously required a software-based monitor for. 22:33:21 or ROM monitor 22:35:47 Basically whatever minimum gets the job done of reading/writing memory and registers over a link. 22:37:06 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 22:37:07 Then you can decide what goes on the target and what stays on the host. 22:37:21 makes sense 22:37:49 mecrisp-across has a host mode and a target mode, both behave like regular mecrisp Forth 22:38:30 in fact when it's in target mode it's fast and seems like Forth is running on the target, but it's not 22:39:06 took me a while to get used to 22:39:14 You keep the headers on the host in mecrisp-across? 22:39:43 i dont know anything about the design, I'm just a mecrisp-user 22:40:39 the forth source stays on the pc and runs on the target, when the proj is finished the host flashes the binary to the target 22:41:36 Ive found the binaries it creates to be smaller than GCC binaries for the same project 22:42:00 bbl off to make some tea! 22:42:07 bye :) 22:45:06 bbl 22:47:02 --- join: arrdem_ joined #forth 22:47:41 --- join: jpsamaroo_ joined #forth 22:54:57 --- quit: arrdem (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:54:57 --- nick: arrdem_ -> arrdem 22:54:57 --- quit: jpsamaroo (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in) 22:57:11 --- quit: karswell (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 23:09:47 --- join: xek_ joined #forth 23:11:13 --- quit: djinni_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:12:53 --- join: djinni joined #forth 23:37:16 --- quit: deesix (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 23:38:52 --- join: deesix joined #forth 23:42:49 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 23:46:31 --- quit: deesix (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 23:53:27 --- join: deesix joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/19.10.10