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02:37:00 <WilhelmVonWeiner> what's up forth
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02:37:25 <WilhelmVonWeiner> always get caught up yak shaving when writing a concatenative interpreter
02:37:32 <tp> I found a bug :)
02:37:42 <WilhelmVonWeiner> squished it?
02:38:18 <tp> yep, it was the kind of bug that results from a chain of causes
02:38:48 <tp> it ended up with arm-none-eabi-objcopy complaining "waiter, there is a fly in my soup"
02:39:58 <WilhelmVonWeiner> waiter, there is soup on my fly
02:40:39 <tp> because I work with a standalone Forth on stm32 chips, I have to send Forth Source to it, and process text from it for certain tasks, such as creating a bootable binary image from the MCU dictionary contents etc
02:41:15 <tp> all this back and fro via relatively slow a serial link
02:41:43 <tp> not like using unix sockets for stuff
02:42:53 <tp> and because the Forth terminal screen is in text, I have to parse, convert etc from the terminal logfile, which I do automatically
02:44:19 <tp> so far so good, my bug was caused by some extra ANSI escape sequences in the new Forth release which gives cool colored Forth prompts depending on the state of the outer interpreter
02:44:36 <tp> ... the price of progress :)
02:46:29 <WilhelmVonWeiner> stellaris?
02:47:37 <tp> yep
02:47:39 <tp> Mecrisp-Stellaris
02:49:39 <tp> i mean how many on chip forths have ANSI escape colors ? we are talking premium Forth here!
02:49:46 <tp> ;-)
02:50:25 <tp> I also have red errors and blue warnings from my slightly modified version
02:50:35 <tp> plus they ring the terminal bell
02:51:40 <tp> I'm worried the Forth Standards committee will come round and take it because it's too pretty and easy to use ;-)
02:59:04 <tp> of course a tethered Forth such as mecrisp-Across is heaps easier and has a lot more features at the price of not being MCU resident in the final mcu based product
02:59:21 <tp> which often isnt important anyway
03:10:46 <WilhelmVonWeiner> who was writing actorForth?
03:10:50 <WilhelmVonWeiner> proteusdude?
03:11:11 <WilhelmVonWeiner> the domain forth.actor is only £5.54 keke
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03:24:12 <tp> -SaslServ- <Unknown user (via SASL):83.5.165.27.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl> failed to login to tp.  There have been 12 failed login attempts since your last successful login.
03:24:26 <tp> this cracker has been after my nick for years now
03:25:15 <tp> the bot must be up to about 20 thousand brute force attempts 
03:27:48 <rdrop-exit> wow
03:29:08 <tp> hey rdrop-exit, Zen Forth Master
03:29:59 <rdrop-exit> Hi Master Technician tp! ;)
03:30:16 <WilhelmVonWeiner> I just bought a domain
03:30:20 <WilhelmVonWeiner> concatenative.club
03:30:25 <tp> rdrop-exit, that daughter of yours has me humming "sugar town", I cant get it outa my head now!
03:30:28 <WilhelmVonWeiner> now, what to do with it...
03:30:50 <rdrop-exit> Cool tp :)
03:31:04 <tp> WilhelmVonWeiner, open a club with skimpy barmaids and PROFIT !
03:31:05 <rdrop-exit> Hi WilhelmVonW
03:31:29 <tp> rdrop-exit, she sings that way better than Nancy Sinatra imho
03:31:55 <rdrop-exit> You're too kind tp, I'll let her know :)
03:32:16 <tp> I'm serious, Nancy sounds bored and half asleep in comparison
03:32:25 <rdrop-exit> :)
03:32:35 <WilhelmVonWeiner> hey rdrop-exit, what's good
03:33:04 <rdrop-exit> Just relaxing after some shopping
03:33:30 <rdrop-exit> I walked, I was very lucky it didn't rain
03:36:24 <rdrop-exit> Why did you get the domain name for WilhelmVonWeiner
03:36:33 <tp> we had our first rain in months last night, it hasnt had any effect on all the big fires around here tho
03:37:20 <rdrop-exit> It's been raining on an off for weeks now, half the time I walk the dogs I get drenched
03:39:26 <tp> we should run a pipeline to your place ;-)
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04:04:31 <WilhelmVonWeiner> rdrop-exit: some kind of new-wave forth site
04:04:32 <WilhelmVonWeiner> idk
04:04:49 <WilhelmVonWeiner> when I have some more free time I'll be using it 
04:06:51 <rdrop-exit> Cool, look forward to checking it out when you go public
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04:35:32 <WilhelmVonWeiner> might make a twitter-like page for Forth
04:35:46 <WilhelmVonWeiner> where the front page is interesting concatenative stuff
04:36:05 <WilhelmVonWeiner> and you just log in and post yer code or commentary
04:41:17 <tp> i can anticipate your first comment " No one uses Forth nowadays, its obsolete, get C! "
04:42:29 <rdrop-exit> I've never used Twitter, trying to imagine it, sounds cool
04:43:10 <rdrop-exit> Posting short snippets, right?
04:43:38 <WilhelmVonWeiner> yeah
04:43:45 <WilhelmVonWeiner> but the posts could be larger.
04:43:51 <WilhelmVonWeiner> a social Forth blog I guess?
04:43:53 <WilhelmVonWeiner> shrug*
04:44:27 <tp> night all, may the Forth be with you!
04:44:37 <rdrop-exit> g'night tp!
04:45:14 <rdrop-exit> Ah even long words, like 6 or 8 lines long
04:46:13 <rdrop-exit> Maybe that's too long though
04:48:30 <rdrop-exit> You could play "name that word" :)
04:51:57 <presiden> g'night tp
04:52:54 <presiden> lines isn't a good way to measure code
04:53:14 <presiden> you can have a very long code in one line
04:54:01 <rdrop-exit> Not if you code on blocks, 64 chars max per row
04:56:43 <presiden> :P
05:07:40 <rdrop-exit> I found a definition that takes exactly 64 chars:
05:07:49 <rdrop-exit> : indent ( rowa -- a ) dup bottom? 0;  dup blank? 0;  indented ;
05:08:48 <rdrop-exit> i.e. a single row
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05:44:47 <rdrop-exit> -1 u2/  constant mpn
05:44:56 <rdrop-exit> 1 ror   constant mnn
06:02:44 <WilhelmVonWeiner> 64 or 80
06:02:45 <WilhelmVonWeiner> or
06:02:54 <WilhelmVonWeiner> 72.
06:03:46 <rdrop-exit> I use 80 for C, 64 for Forth
06:04:07 <rdrop-exit> (chars per line)
06:19:55 <jn__> 64 works well with blocks
06:26:11 <presiden> 42
06:32:14 <WilhelmVonWeiner> 12
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06:32:50 <WilhelmVonWeiner> hardcore mode Forth
06:33:09 <rdrop-exit> perfect for APL
06:33:26 <crc> 12 is too short for me
06:34:28 <WilhelmVonWeiner> :d dup ; :o over ; :c drop ; and so on...
06:34:30 <WilhelmVonWeiner> :thinking:
06:35:32 <rdrop-exit> APL is more compact, no need for spaces
06:35:39 <crc> I have 88 words (out of 505 in my retro/unix image) with names 12 chars or greater
06:38:51 <rdrop-exit> I have a bunch too
06:39:17 <WilhelmVonWeiner> 505 words, you only need a-z like :a and :aa
06:39:20 <WilhelmVonWeiner> :^)
06:40:09 <rdrop-exit> words like reset-trail-1s
06:40:31 <WilhelmVonWeiner> jk jk
06:40:34 <rdrop-exit> i.e. reset trailing 1 bits
06:46:58 <rdrop-exit> I believe my longest name is preemptable-echo
06:47:09 <rdrop-exit> I was lazy that day :)
06:50:04 <crc> the longest name in retro is random:xoroshiro128**:test-seed
06:50:23 <rdrop-exit> =8-O
06:54:49 <crc> http://forth.works/50cd3e816aa9f1465f0534d4f6446ee5 is my list of names with 10 or more characters
06:55:02 <rdrop-exit> > =8-O
06:55:44 <rdrop-exit> oops I must have clicked something wrong, sorry for the repeat
07:02:49 <rdrop-exit> cool
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07:07:46 <WilhelmVonWeiner> crc: is that my word lol
07:08:20 <WilhelmVonWeiner> I could still never figure out why the implementation of 128** started off-by-one
07:08:34 <crc> WilhelmVonWeiner: yes :)
07:10:44 <crc> my word names are pretty long (8 characters on average, with 167 of the 505 being 10 or more)
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08:00:40 <rdrop-exit> Goodnight all, keep on Forthin'
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08:02:25 <pointfree> WilhelmVonWeiner: Nifty idea!
08:02:25 <pointfree> Bonus if the code-snippet-twitter can be used through a forth wordset.
08:02:25 <pointfree> The idea reminds me a bit of the defunct refactormycode.com
08:02:25 <pointfree> Sharing forth code works well if shared and loaded in source form rather than binary packages. I also see that whenever forth is shared the user just takes what they need, heavily edits for their own personal forth application, and leaves the rest.
08:02:25 <pointfree> This could be a more natural fit for more extroverted forth social coding than an npn/pip/cargo style package manager.
08:03:20 <pointfree> https://github.com/oli-g/refactormycode https://pramatr.wordpress.com/2008/11/07/refactormycodecom-will-it-work/
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08:19:11 <WilhelmVonWeiner> Hm, I wasn't even thinking of user pages but "collections" on a social Forth platform might be interesting
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08:57:19 <siraben> Finally fixed a long standing issue in my Z80 Forth that runs on the TI-84+
08:57:21 <siraben> https://github.com/siraben/ti84-forth/commit/bc0140d641a121a4f2e43a2ccb796e42d58ead44
08:58:42 <siraben> It kept printing ok at the end of every word processed
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09:17:43 <creat1001> hehe. Ok
09:17:48 <creat1001> :)
09:17:57 <crc> I've been considering dropping the 'ok' from mine
09:21:25 <creat1001> I need to fix an issue with words not found if ." was not space seperated.
09:21:36 <creat1001> I get this: Error: ->."Buckjoy. word not know. Error: ->" word not know. 2280 Ok 
09:21:37 <pointfree> crc: Yeah I don't have 'ok' as a prompt. Just a newline character upon completion. It makes it easier to copy and paste code from a session.
09:22:27 <creat1001> It takes the ending " as a word.  I kind of like the result though, but I will fix anyway
09:24:37 <crc> I don't see the 'ok' often as I'm not using forth interactively most of the time. (I enter my code in a file or block editor, and run from there mostly); my interactive use is mainly in debugging
09:24:52 <pointfree> ...the 'ok' prompt is redundant because we use the enter key anyway.
09:25:09 <WilhelmVonWeiner> I like ok 
09:25:19 <WilhelmVonWeiner> just for aesthetic, historical reasons
09:25:23 <creat1001> I may have a command line switch to turn in off or on
09:26:37 <WilhelmVonWeiner> havent seen you around before creat1001, what are you working on
09:28:15 <creat1001> Hi. I'm doing a C based forth VM. It will have a few oddities. Just getting started really. I have the font end mostly done now and outlining the vm in code now
09:30:52 <creat1001> Am planning on 3 stacks. One work (parm) stack, one return and one for loops. I'm going to have specal instructions for loop setup
09:31:16 <creat1001> All play code, nothing serious.
09:33:28 <creat1001> I'm not trying for true forth'isum just working my old brain to keep it from getting bored from plan ole work .net code
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10:53:35 <WilhelmVonWeiner> loop stack? hmm
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10:56:28 <creat1001> yeah. Seperat from the call. I wanted to tray some stuff to simplify the compiles and do some nested loop optomizing. It was an idea I had a long time ago on a VM I wrote for a comercial product. I did not do it though then.
10:57:59 <creat1001> That VM was register based though. This is the first stack based vm I have done. 3rd VM though
11:05:10 <crc> WilhelmVonWeiner: will you be using a server written in forth for your new domain?
11:06:58 <WilhelmVonWeiner> good question
11:07:33 <WilhelmVonWeiner> probably not because I have stuff already running on lighttpd fronted by Cloudflare
11:08:15 <WilhelmVonWeiner> in my head I was just thinking about whipping it up in Flask and deploying it to my server or like, aws
11:09:40 <creat1001> flask makes you lazy. I like lazy for the web :)
11:12:18 <crc> I'm working towards being able to retire my last non-forth server.
11:14:03 <creat1001> crc: what's your underlying tcp code written in?
11:14:09 <WilhelmVonWeiner> inetd
11:14:34 <WilhelmVonWeiner> http://forth.works/examples/Casket-HTTP.forth.html
11:15:25 <crc> inetd currently; doing some experiments with raw sockets
11:15:47 <creat1001> really, inetd for http? Doing any pre-spawns?
11:16:05 <creat1001> I see.
11:16:08 <crc> no prespawns
11:16:51 <creat1001> It's fine for low traffic and butt-easy to do an http system with.
11:18:30 <creat1001> I'm not judgeing btw :)  Just suprised at it. I love simple and things that work.
11:18:58 <crc> traffic isn't that big a deal. I have some throttling setup on the main (freebsd) box, and limit simultaneous connections per ip on both that and my openbsd box
11:20:38 <crc> things have been running fine for a few years now
11:21:32 <creat1001> Yeah, it's a stable way to do it, since it gets respawn each time. 
11:21:35 <crc> (I have no idea on the actual traffic as I don't keep logs since dropping Apache)
11:22:27 <creat1001> Doing apache setup now...
11:22:36 <creat1001> Crosseyed
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11:26:56 <crc> I'll be happy when I can drop my last apache system
11:27:29 * crc glares at the application preventing this currently
11:29:33 <creat1001> Well, I like it better than IIS. Bah
11:30:01 <creat1001> But, they are all heavy systems
11:31:02 <crc> once I remove the remaining bits of php5 code, it'll be easier to switch to something lighter
11:31:37 <creat1001> I have managed to stay away from php
11:31:52 <creat1001> But not .net :(
11:42:13 <crc> the application was originally written in php as a prototype, it ended up getting used, so I've been slowly refactoring and replacing it with forth and python
11:45:26 <creat1001> You work for yourself or another company?
11:46:17 <crc> both...
11:46:29 <creat1001> I see.
11:46:52 <crc> this application is for my main employer; i do freelance work on the side
11:47:58 <creat1001> They let you code in forth or you do a sneak in? :)
11:50:12 <crc> I am allowed to choose the languages and tools :)
11:50:30 <creat1001> nice.
11:51:35 <crc> it's not the main part of my job (I'm primarily doing inside sales & purchasing), but get to develop custom apps for in-house use, and get paid to work on them outside normal hours if I choose to do so.
11:51:38 <creat1001> It was mostly that way before, but now has to be .net.  
11:52:04 <creat1001> Ok, I see. That is nice.
11:52:51 <creat1001> I used to do a good bit of shop floor systems on the side, but got tired of not having any free time.
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12:55:51 <crc> I finished a quick syntax colorizer (generating html) for my assembly format, resulting output: http://forth.works/rx.muri.html (source at http://forth.works/examples/export-muri-as-html.retro.html)
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13:01:19 * john_cephalopoda . o O ( One could actually hide data inside rx without increasing its size by putting commands behind return and call statements, which are never executed. )
13:01:42 <WilhelmVonWeiner> they are executed
13:01:54 <WilhelmVonWeiner> it's why they're nopped
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13:02:17 <WilhelmVonWeiner> guess they would be nopped either way
13:03:20 <crc> WilhelmVonWeiner is correct, though: rx reserves 1024 cells and only uses 919, so there's room to put in some data there
13:04:34 <john_cephalopoda> But return does an instant jump. What I mean is "i readread" will be equivalent to "i re......".
13:05:17 <john_cephalopoda> So the "adread" could be hidden in rx and it wouldn't increase the file size since it replaces the nops, without changes to program behavior.
13:05:22 <crc> the adread will also be executed though
13:05:32 <crc> at least in the c vm
13:07:37 <john_cephalopoda> Oh, didn't see that.
13:07:45 <john_cephalopoda> I believe my implementation doesn't do that.
13:08:46 <crc> this is covered in rx.muri, and none of my source relies on that (since I only use nop's after instructions that modify IP)
13:10:13 <crc> now, with a 64-bit system, you definitely could do this as only the lower 32-bits gets decoded for instructions, so the top half could store extra stuff...
13:12:03 <john_cephalopoda> Just checked, my muri code does nop after those things.
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13:14:24 <crc> That's probably a better thing to do, but may be more difficult for a hardware implementation
13:15:44 <john_cephalopoda> My x86 implementation works bytewise and not on packed bytes, so I can easily skip things.
13:16:06 <WilhelmVonWeiner> it's not really Nga though then
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13:22:05 <john_cephalopoda> I believe that a
13:23:11 <john_cephalopoda> I believe that it would be totally possible to add many commands after one of the flow control things. Flow control and li would break things though.
13:23:52 <WilhelmVonWeiner> it's pretty unsafe though
13:24:33 <WilhelmVonWeiner> for a compiler
13:24:48 <WilhelmVonWeiner> hand-written assembler should work ootb
13:27:17 <john_cephalopoda> https://bpaste.net/show/pe1t
13:28:59 <crc> it's potentially useful, but harder to debug... (I ran into this a lot in the early days of nga)
13:34:55 <WilhelmVonWeiner> potentially useful is the bane of programming
13:38:35 <crc> I can say that none of my code will make use of anything other than nop's after call, ccall, jump, ret, or zret
13:40:55 <john_cephalopoda> Then my nga is compatible with all o your code ;)
13:44:11 <crc> yes; we would have discovered pretty quickly if it wasn't 
13:44:52 <john_cephalopoda> Hm, I don't really get around doing the keyboard stuff for x86. 
13:47:26 <crc> I'll be working on the keyboard when I have time at the macbook so I can run my x86 emulators (don't have any emulators on the bsd boxes or my ipad)
13:47:52 <crc> maybe this weekend, if my rsi doesn't get too bad by the end of the week
13:53:47 <crc> heading home; will be back in ~30 min
14:05:56 <john_cephalopoda> crc: You could install qemu on the bsd boxes.
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15:21:09 <crc> john_cephalopoda: how well does that work if the boxes are headless?
15:39:40 <tp> crc, you have rsi ! :(
15:40:19 * tp had RSI once, unbelievably painful and debilitating
15:47:29 <crc> tp: I've been dealing with carpal tunnel since my late teens; it's been very problematic in the last few years
15:47:48 <tp> wow, thats a long time!
15:47:57 <crc> yes :(
15:48:33 <tp> I only had it for a about a year in total including 6 months to heal
15:49:06 <tp> I got a vertical mouse and improved my accounting system so I didnt have to type as much
15:49:37 <tp> plus my business was starting to suffer from competition and I was getting less orders to process
15:50:18 <john_cephalopoda> crc: Not that well :þ
15:50:42 <crc> About a year ago it was bad enough to make it nearly impossible to type; since then I've made a lot of changes to reduce the ongoing damage and let me have at least some productive times
15:50:47 <tp> but at it's worst I'd only have to move my hand and the ligaments would seem to get stuck in my wrist and get torn thru it, "excruciating" is putting it mildly
15:50:47 <john_cephalopoda> (Re how qemu would run on headless)
15:52:12 <tp> john_cephalopoda, wouldnt you just run a qemu session remotely via ssh ?
15:55:44 <crc> tp: the biggest help so far was switching to an ergodox keyboard; it's been very beneficial being able to adjust the positioning and key layouts
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15:56:56 <tp> crc, thats great :) my RSI eventually cleared 100% although I feared it would never end
15:57:35 <tp> crc, the vertical mouse also helped a lot but dies after a couple of years, expensive junk
15:57:43 <crc> I'm far beyond being able to make a full recovery :(
15:57:51 <tp> :(
15:58:29 <crc> I use either a trackball or a layer on my keyboard
15:58:39 <tp> I recall RMS got RSI writing Gcc and had to hire a secretary to type for him
15:59:13 <tp> still have to turn your hand for a trackball ?
16:02:40 <crc> a little, but much less so than with a mouse, and I don't have to move my hand
16:03:29 <tp> good point!
16:04:16 <crc> I'd use it less if our order entry system at work actually supported keyboard navigation properly (it's an unholy java based thing that doesn't follow any standard interface conventions)
16:05:25 <tp> mine was only a small business I ran for 15 years which involved copying and pasting text from a web order system to my accounting package, luckily I only had about 20 orders a day to do at my peak
16:06:17 <tp> Id make up the paperwork then build the order (wifi, configure gear, make cables, pack and post)
16:06:57 <tp> I sold about $4 million in wifi and related stuff over 15 years
16:07:34 <tp> now Im only 12 months from retiring after closing the business at the start of this year
16:08:31 <crc> I enter a similar number of orders, but also do a greater number of quotes, purchase orders, and copious amounts of email correspondence. The largest order this year had about 1200 items, all of which has to be entered manually.
16:09:07 <tp> geepers!
16:09:20 <tp> I can really appreciate how that would go
16:09:51 <crc> I've got a long way to go before retirement (iirc, I'm 36, it'll be a long time off....)
16:10:16 <tp> at the start of my RSI I moved to a OSS accounting system "webERP" and started automating as much as I could
16:11:03 <tp> my plan was to write a parser from the webstore to webERP but I never completed that, which is a shame as it would have been fun
16:11:24 <tp> not to mention save tons and tons of time
16:11:37 <tp> and typing
16:12:01 <tp> automation is definitely the best thing a business can do
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16:13:24 <tp> I still use webERP for orders from old customers who insist I still sell to them but I only get a order every few months
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16:16:03 <crc> I'm hoping to eventually get us away from this system we use,  but it'll likely be several years before that happens
16:16:54 <tp> yeah, understand how one becomes dependant upon existing systems and the huge amount of work to move to something else
16:17:31 <tp> for me open source enabled all the automation I could build, it still does with Forth 
16:18:13 <tp> i see associates stuck with closed source accounting apps and they have to wait until the vendor enables features they want
16:18:27 <tp> which may be never
16:23:32 <rdrop-exit> c[] (-_-)zzz
16:24:28 <tp> rdrop-exit, still tired at 9:30am ?
16:24:55 <rdrop-exit> 7:24am here, too early for me
16:25:13 <rdrop-exit> Good morning all
16:26:08 <tp> oh, same tz as Perth in WA :)
16:26:16 <crc> good morning rdrop-exit
16:26:28 <rdrop-exit> The best thing about being retired is not having to wake up early
16:26:32 <rdrop-exit> Hi crc!
16:26:35 <tp> exactly!
16:26:47 <tp> I'm semi retired for another 12 months
16:27:04 <rdrop-exit> Cool
16:27:19 <rdrop-exit> I retired 12 years ago
16:27:22 <tp> then I hope to cycle around auatralia in a home made recumbent trike if health allows
16:27:31 <rdrop-exit> Sorry 10 years ago
16:27:46 <tp> I planned to retire in 2000, but my ex wife had other plans
16:27:47 <rdrop-exit> Wow, adventure
16:27:59 <rdrop-exit> ouch
16:28:15 <tp> so she retired instead and I had to keep working 
16:28:33 <rdrop-exit> bummer
16:29:03 <tp> yeah, ancient history now, life proceeds regardless :)
16:29:31 <tp> in fact I plan to spend the rest of my retirement travelling and living in the outback
16:29:46 <rdrop-exit> We celebrated our 34th last week
16:29:47 <tp> camping with my recumbent
16:29:53 <tp> well done!
16:30:04 <tp> I only made it 14 years in my marriage
16:30:12 <tp> (bad choice on my part)
16:32:49 <rdrop-exit> brb, need more coffee
16:33:12 <tp> lol
16:35:41 <rdrop-exit> back (-_-)
16:37:10 <tp> welcome back! 
16:37:32 <tp> I gave up coffee a few years ago, never missed it
16:37:51 <tp> I still have one now and again in social occasions and enjoy it
16:38:10 <rdrop-exit> I can't function without it
16:39:22 <tp> i thought Id miss it, wake up with the shakes, be unable to think but nothing changed
16:39:45 <tp> wich I could give up chocolate as easy!
16:40:38 <tp> hmm I think I may actually be turning in a reasonable SH programmer at long last
16:41:15 <tp> I used to do all my 'glue' in Perl but started using SH instead because every *nix system hasit
16:42:34 <tp> and with a on chip Forth that I program and then upload the Forth source to from a PC, a lot of glue is needed for a decent modern development environment
16:43:31 <rdrop-exit> I dislike sh, don't really "code" in it
16:44:42 <rdrop-exit> For small throwaway text stuff I use awk
16:45:05 <tp> I used to dislike it but found after a few years that it's much the same as everything else Ive used
16:45:36 <tp> oh I use awk as well in my SH scripts. I use a ton of system *nix utilities
16:46:02 <tp> the one Ive just fixed a bug in is called "clone.sh"
16:47:06 <tp> basically it sucks everything out of a finished Forth application on the actual chip via the serial terminal and creates a md5 named bootable binary image file in the project 
16:47:58 <tp> then this image can be flashed to another chip in production and contains everything, kernel and dictionary etc all ready to run
16:48:52 <rdrop-exit> cool
16:50:43 <tp> I had to suck out the binary dictionary contents by converting to intel hex on the chip, then parse out the terminal log rubbish with Sed, remove fixed content and build a new file with DD, then create the binary with arm-none-eabi-objcopy and name it using md5
17:04:01 <rdrop-exit> Haven't used sed in ages
17:05:46 <tp> I'm only a very basic sed and awk user
17:07:20 <rdrop-exit> I usually use awk even for things sed could handle
17:10:16 <tp> awk is easier, better , more capable, more modern than sed ?
17:12:46 <rdrop-exit> More obvious when your reread it a few months later
17:15:50 <tp> ah, ok I'll have to look into AWK more 
17:17:41 <rdrop-exit> sed gets cryptic quickly for anything but the most basic stuff
17:19:21 <rdrop-exit> https://books.google.com.ph/books?id=53ueQgAACAAJ&dq=The+AWK+Programming+Language
17:20:21 <tp> ta!
17:21:02 <rdrop-exit> Think of AWK as the super simple ancestor of Perl
17:21:47 <tp> oh ok
17:21:52 <rdrop-exit> Perl gave me migraines
17:21:54 <tp> I found Perl dead easy
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17:22:18 <rdrop-exit> awk is tiny in comparison
17:22:29 <tp> I use functions in SH to keep my apps readable
17:22:42 <tabemann> I hate sh
17:22:44 <Kumool> runawk has support for modules and its all awk
17:22:52 <tp> so my SH source looks pretty readable thesedays
17:23:15 <tp> tabemann, Im quite fond of SH thesdays
17:23:25 <john_cephalopoda> I am using sed a lot to take apart my server logs.
17:23:30 <Kumool> sh is terrible though
17:23:46 <tabemann> TBCH, when I just need to script something quickly, I use Python
17:23:52 <john_cephalopoda> Although awk would probably do a better job than sed...
17:24:12 <Kumool> awk is always better, for everything
17:24:58 <tp> one thing I was sure Id hate, and friends all warned me off dealing with it (and the initial learning was as exciting as watching grass grow) was XML, but as I started doing useful Forth stuff with XML I began to appreciate it
17:25:59 <rdrop-exit> I can't stand XML
17:26:06 <tp> tabemann, I bypased python going from Perl to lisp I didnt want to get caught up in any 'middleware'
17:26:23 <tp> yeah, everyone hates xml but me
17:27:16 <tp> I've been able to do make mecrisp-stellaris awesome with XML 
17:27:24 <Kumool> like, do you like to read xml?
17:27:31 <Kumool> is it a writing thing?
17:27:37 <Kumool> what exactly do you like about it
17:27:46 <tp> sure, one has to be able to read it to parse it 
17:28:13 <rdrop-exit> XML is bloated
17:28:49 <tp> Kumool, I like that I can use XML by parsing it with XLST to create what I want
17:29:34 <tp> rdrop-exit, I dont care that XML may be bloated, I just use the XML data
17:30:41 <tp> Kumool, few people write XML directly I suspect, that would be as painful as writing IPtables or machine code
17:31:15 <tp> Kumool, people use applications to create XML files, and other apps to parse them
17:31:19 <rdrop-exit> Machine code's not painful :)
17:31:24 <tp> hahah
17:31:46 <rdrop-exit> All you need is sturdy toggle switches
17:31:52 <tp> oh yeah, it's is when you do it from a hex keypad with 7 segment leds as the display
17:32:13 <rdrop-exit> Keypad? Don't need no stinkin' keypad
17:32:27 <rdrop-exit> toggle toggle
17:32:34 <tabemann> back
17:32:37 <tp> I wrote a dual 8085 industrial bottle filling machine controller in machine code in 1985, it *was* painful
17:32:45 <tp> welcome back! tabemann 
17:32:53 <rdrop-exit> Hi tabemann
17:33:05 <tabemann> I hate XML
17:33:23 <tp> rdrop-exit, that machine filled 2500 bottles with saline hospital solutions per day
17:33:43 <rdrop-exit> cool
17:33:51 <tp> tabemann, it's like anything one hates
17:34:11 <tp> if you hate spiders, then get a tarantula as a pet
17:34:26 <tp> once you face your hate it goes away
17:34:38 <tabemann> at least at my current job it's all JSON
17:34:46 <tp> same with xml, it's just another programmers tool
17:35:04 <tp> Ive seen json looks a lot easier
17:35:21 <tabemann> of course my current job has not done what you describe for JavaScript
17:35:38 <tabemann> it's all tarantula-on-the-face all the time with JS
17:35:38 <tp> for sure XML seems a thing of the past, maybe I should have converted my XML files to JSON before processing them ?
17:35:48 <tp> hahahah
17:35:55 <tp> EEEKS
17:36:05 <tabemann> if anything, my current job has made me hate JS more
17:36:12 * tp has arachnophobia
17:36:33 <tp> well I get to avoid Java* with XML
17:36:40 <tabemann> OTOH it has made me appreciate Java
17:36:57 <tabemann> Java is restrictive - but sometimes being restrictive is a good thing
17:37:04 <tp> my architect daughter likes java she tells me
17:37:38 <tabemann> if the Java code compiles there is a reasonable chance it might work
17:37:49 <tabemann> if the JS loads, who in fuck knows what it will do
17:37:56 <tp> sure, after I learnt Dartmouth Basic (on a intel 8047) in 1990 my brain was ruined, I had to unlearn it then learn Pascal, after that I was ok
17:38:35 <tp> and Pascal is *very* restrictive being a educational language
17:39:17 <tabemann> the problem with JavaScript is you can just create new objects and interchange them willy nilly and the typing regime is so fucking lax
17:39:29 <rdrop-exit> I actually prefered Basic to Pascal, peek, poke
17:40:00 <tp> rdrop-exit, it didnt work for me, the goto's ruined my early programmer brain
17:40:16 <tabemann> I didn't like BASIC when I learned it as a kid
17:40:19 <tp> once they took my GOTO's away I was ok
17:40:45 <tabemann> because I'd take books from the local library about things like C and Lisp and Prolog and like
17:40:56 <tabemann> and I was exposed directly to LOGO, which is procedural
17:40:56 <rdrop-exit> ColorForth reminds me of Basic
17:41:07 <tabemann> so I knew what I was missing
17:41:11 <tp> tabemann, I only used BASIC to make a small portable computer with I/O I could use onsite to R/E DIP pick and place machines
17:41:29 <tabemann> R/E?
17:41:36 <tp> reverse engineer
17:41:49 <crc> I wrote my first forth in basic
17:41:59 <tp> amazing
17:42:01 <rdrop-exit> Cool
17:42:25 <tp> I have a Forth written in Perl and one in BASH (not by me) and theyre not bad
17:42:36 <tabemann> my fourth language after Applesoft BASIC, LOGO, and 6502 assembly was HyperCard
17:42:43 <tabemann> *HyperTalk
17:43:15 <tp> tabemann, LOGO can't have hurt ? it's a LISP dialect ?
17:43:15 <crc> I'll have to see if the old floppy with the code is still readable someday
17:43:16 <tabemann> which was nice being high level and procedural and shit, for someone who did most of their coding beforehand in Applesoft BASIC
17:43:37 <tabemann> tp: my problem is I had no documentation for it
17:44:25 <tp> I'm like a ex smoker with BASIC, I cant even look at BASIC code nowdays
17:44:53 <tabemann> I do not have good memories of BASIC
17:44:59 <tp> tabemann, documentation ? programmers dont need documentation!
17:45:07 <tabemann> I remember trying to write a text editor in it
17:45:33 <tabemann> but found that I couldn't create an array large enough to store anything worthwhile in
17:46:10 <tp> my problem with BASIC was that after I learn and used it, I tried to learn C unsuccessfully, I just couldnt make the jump. So I unlearned BASIC, learned Pascal and then C was a no brainer for me
17:46:43 <tabemann> after learning HyperTalk I then learned C and then C++ without a problem
17:47:01 <tp> I *really* wish Id known about Forth instead at the time I made up that BASIC machine
17:47:20 <tp> Forth would have been perfect
17:47:44 <tabemann> sometime around then I was also exposed to the Yerkes Forth implementation, but I didn't have enough documentation to really do anything with it
17:47:52 <tabemann> years later I found Ficl
17:48:19 <tabemann> I think I saw the article about it in Dr. Dobb's
17:48:35 * tabemann misses that magazine
17:48:47 <rdrop-exit> I liked the interactivity of Basic, and that I could peek and poke. Forth hit all my buttons though.
17:48:51 <tp> my job was to recondition and modernise some old DIP pick and place machines (worth a couple of hundred thousand $) that used a paper tape reader to set up for populating printed circuit boards
17:50:01 <tp> so I decide Id replace the paper tape reader with a modern PC keyboard, but I didnt know the codes for the machine. I used the BASIC hardware I built to do all that
17:50:21 <tp> then I made a code converter for the keyboard and all was well
17:50:51 <tp> those machines probably weighted a couple of tons
17:52:52 <tabemann> this kind of thing is why I still agree with Stallman as much as I think the GPL is a bit restrictive
17:53:12 <tabemann> if that machine were controlled by free software reconditioning it wouldn't've been a problem
17:54:06 <tp> tabemann, they were made by Dynapert (UK) and all proprietary
17:54:37 <tabemann> as I figured
17:54:37 <tp> tabemann, I agree, the GPL was very important, but it's also restrictive thesedays
17:54:57 <rdrop-exit> I dislike GPL, prefer BSD or similar
17:55:05 <tp> as a FreeBSD user I get to use incredible apps that the GPL denies to Linux users
17:55:26 <tabemann> there are some things I still believe the GPL is good for, like the Linux kernel - it'd've been forked to death long ago were it not for the GPL
17:55:33 <tp> rdrop-exit, same here since I switched from Linux to FreeBSD and discovered why the GPL can be restrictive
17:55:53 <tabemann> but for a lot of my own code, I want other people to be able to use it regardless of their chosen license
17:56:17 <tabemann> and while there's the LGPL, there's a lot of linking that isn't dynamic (e.g. if someone were to use their code with hashforth)
17:56:53 <tp> tabeman, I don't know how to break this to you easily but XML is vital for Cortex-M chips with Forth ...
17:57:19 <tabemann> I know because the description files for all the registers are in XML
17:57:34 <tp> tabemann, but ... when it's time I can do that part for you if you like
17:57:46 <tp> tabemann, exactlty
17:57:47 <tabemann> and with at least Mecrisp-Stellaris, a script is used to convert them to Forth
17:58:00 <tp> yes, my scripts
17:58:15 <tabemann> you wrote those scripts?
17:58:18 <tp> yep
17:58:29 <tp> I've ben at it a few years
17:59:18 <tp> my scripts (svd2forth) create the memory map files and the bitfield template Words
17:59:54 <tabemann> what language is the scripts in?
17:59:57 <rdrop-exit> If I were confronted with XML, I'd convert it to something dirt simple, before dealing with the data
18:00:00 <tp> heheh
18:00:01 <tp> SH
18:00:19 <tabemann> I was hoping they were in Forth or something - lol
18:01:00 <tabemann> rdrop-exit: e.g. I can much more see myself writing a JSON parser/generator for hashforth than an XML one
18:01:05 <tp> tabemann, theyre done on a PC and I dont use Forth on a PC
18:01:40 <tp> tabemann, I look forward to hearing your adventures doing that 
18:02:12 <tp> rdrop-exit, XML *is* dirt simple ???
18:02:30 * tp cant see a simpler data structure than XML
18:02:31 <tabemann> tp: mind you I've written very un-forthy data structure code which I'd convert JSON into using
18:02:36 <tabemann> tp: JSON
18:03:03 <tp> tabemann, then JSOn is too easy!
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18:03:26 <tabemann> to me XML is excessively complex
18:03:26 <rdrop-exit> XML is bloated, wouldn't want to deal with it directly
18:03:41 <creat1001> hi.
18:03:45 <tabemann> hey
18:03:55 <creat1001> xml is awful
18:04:01 <tp> tabemann, I also wrote parsers to turn SVD XML files into equate statements for various Assemblers
18:04:15 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
18:04:20 <creat1001> json for the almost win
18:04:41 <tp> creat1001, thats the general consensus but I like XML after using it to solve my Forth problems
18:05:03 <tp> creat1001, and ARM SVD files still come in XML
18:05:15 <creat1001> I see.
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18:05:29 <rdrop-exit> I would use some utility to flatten it
18:05:37 <tp> if theyd come in JSON I guess Id be using that instead
18:05:40 <creat1001> json is so easy to parse
18:06:45 <rdrop-exit> No parsing required
18:07:09 <rdrop-exit> Flatten then extract
18:07:25 <creat1001> Sometimes. I just chop the { and mack a list of dict in python
18:07:39 <tabemann> you don't even need to convert JSON into another in-memory format if you feel like it
18:08:10 <tabemann> the only thing is that in JS eval-ing JSON is frowned upon, even though it works, for obvious reasons
18:08:41 <tabemann> okay, I've gotta go
18:09:08 <rdrop-exit> There used to be a utility for flattening XML files so you could feed them to things like awk, I can't recall the name off the top of my head
18:09:08 <tp> my poroblem is Ive become so used to the SVD XML format I can read it in my sleep, it's as easy as I need
18:09:23 <tp> tabemann, no problemo cya
18:09:32 <rdrop-exit> G'night tabemann
18:09:40 <creat1001> xml is ok if formatted and written correctly.
18:09:58 <tabemann> see ya guys later
18:10:03 <tp> rdrop-exit, my xml stuff is already like eating icream and apple pie, it just doesnt need to be easier
18:10:21 <creat1001> I have a parser at work that deals with 5 different XML formates from one vendor.
18:10:48 <tp> I've just been making a different parse config for that
18:11:00 <tp> the differences are only slight
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18:11:01 <rdrop-exit> tp, you need de-programming :)
18:11:54 --- join: creat1001 (63be2f20@99-190-47-32.lightspeed.chrlnc.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth
18:12:04 <tp> rdrop-exit, hahahah, imagine if you were eating icecream and hot apple pie and someone came along and said "hey I've stuff like that which is even EASIER to eat" ?? youdbe like <HUH!>
18:13:06 <tp> rdrop-exit, I wasnt planning making a career on XML, I just used it to support a major embedded Forth issue which works perfectly
18:13:41 <creat1001> :)
18:14:13 <tp> well, ok I improvements are always possible, I could use better maths support than XLST-1.0 gives me ... is that something JSON could fix ?
18:14:14 <creat1001> A career in XML or hotel services.... :)
18:14:22 <tp> hahahaah
18:14:37 <tp> Im a electronics technician already, have ben all my life
18:14:47 <tp> thats where my expertise lays
18:14:54 <creat1001> A better way!
18:15:00 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
18:15:30 <creat1001> XML standard in one hand, a Hako in the other! ;)
18:16:06 <creat1001> I think my iron need a new element
18:16:08 <tp> I do stuff like this https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/prototyping.html?highlight=prototype#stm32l053
18:16:20 <tp> thermaltronics ...
18:16:29 <rdrop-exit> The Kool-aid is strong in this one ;)
18:16:46 <tp> must have more kool aid ...
18:17:03 <creat1001> On no, Jim Jones
18:17:08 <tp> Strong in this one Kool-Aid is
18:17:58 <tp> forth-love? if honk then
18:18:49 <rdrop-exit> I remember the People's Temple, on Geary st. SF, went to concerts there after the Jonestown incident
18:19:26 <rdrop-exit> Creepy
18:19:31 <creat1001> yeah
18:20:02 <creat1001> I was like 12-13 or so when that happened
18:20:02 <tp> Jim Jones from the idiots in Jamestown ?? 
18:21:08 <rdrop-exit> Ya, their "temple" in San Francisco was used as a small rock/punk concert venue after they killed themselves
18:21:46 <rdrop-exit> At least for a short while, no idea what's in the building now
18:22:13 <tp> I was 24 at the time of the Jamestown suicides
18:24:33 <rdrop-exit> I was 16 or 17
18:24:47 <creat1001> I'm the little kid here :)
18:25:19 <tp> I'm not the oldest bit I;m getting there
18:25:21 <rdrop-exit> November 78, I was 16 1/2
18:26:03 <creat1001> Yeah, 13 then
18:26:22 <creat1001> Err, 12 13 in Dec
18:26:50 <tp> I'm far too old to be learning about this new JSON stuff !
18:27:14 <creat1001> JSON is not a hard thing to learn, honestly
18:27:31 <tp> hehe, Im just stirring the young-uns here :)
18:27:38 <creat1001> eheh
18:27:40 <rdrop-exit> That's how I feel about most new programming languages
18:28:01 <tp> if I can do HEX and decimal maths with JSON i'm all in!
18:28:21 <creat1001> Don't get me started a bout learning a language.
18:28:42 <tp> rdrop-exit, really, at your young age!
18:28:52 <rdrop-exit> Bah, humbug!
18:29:00 <rdrop-exit> ;)
18:29:01 <creat1001> "But it's not written in DooDoo BaSICK so I don't understand
18:29:05 <tp> the kids thesedays ...
18:29:11 <tp> hahaah
18:29:36 <creat1001> Me " Are you a programmer?"
18:29:45 <tp> I do all my programming on a etch-a-sketch, what do you young-uns use ?
18:29:55 <rdrop-exit> toggle switches
18:30:00 <tp> LOL
18:30:07 <creat1001> wireing boards :)
18:30:24 <tp> i last used toggle switches in 1997 and Im glad to be rid of them!
18:30:48 <creat1001> I love a good clicky TS
18:30:59 <tp> having a hex keypad and 7-seg led displays was like heaven after toggle switches!
18:31:06 <creat1001> not so much a clicky keyboard
18:31:07 <tp> oops
18:31:12 <rdrop-exit> I remember we had some sort of HP minicomputer at work, you'd have to set toggle switches for different boot procedures
18:31:18 <tp> i last used toggle switches in 1977 and Im glad to be rid of them!
18:31:40 <tp> rdrop-exit, yeah, so ancient!
18:32:13 <rdrop-exit> My daily driver is a 61-key Poker3 keyboard, very clicky
18:32:27 <tp> then along came a terminal and a assembler, oh BLISS, I had died and gone to heaven!
18:32:32 <creat1001> Yeah, a lot of mini computers used TS for a long time for boot and diag chages
18:33:34 <tp> so can anyone tell me, can I do all kinds of math on JSON data and is it OSS ?
18:34:17 <creat1001> Honestly I just do all my stuff then format it to json
18:34:30 <tp> oh
18:34:45 <crc> no idea, I only use json as an export format for passing data to other things
18:34:55 <tp> so everyone loves JSON but ...
18:35:02 <tp> thanks crc
18:35:10 <creat1001> you do that in xml
18:35:12 <tp> well Ill still look into JSON
18:35:13 <creat1001> ?
18:35:27 <rdrop-exit> It looks more lightweight than XML, see the samoke code in the Wikipedia page
18:35:28 <rdrop-exit> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON
18:35:45 <tp> well yeah I do a lot in XLST but it's not easy and the only XML parser i have is XLST1.0
18:36:00 <crc> https://xpack.github.io/xsvd/files/xsvd-json/ is apparently a project reworking arm svd into json
18:36:12 <tp> crc, cool!
18:36:22 <rdrop-exit> Personally, unless the file is gigabytes, I just flatten it before dealing with it
18:36:38 <creat1001> Yeah, I only xport json out and take in. Converting to native. Easy to parse and convert though
18:36:51 <tp> rdrop-exit, but xml is already flat ?
18:37:13 <crc> I occasionally use a tool, jq, to parse/extract data in a json file via a unix pipe
18:37:16 <tp> there is also a lot of Rust <-> xml stuff
18:37:50 <rdrop-exit> By flat I mean fully denormalized, like a spreadsheet in a text file
18:37:56 <tp> I just dont want users to have to install all kinds of apps just to use the SVD's
18:37:57 <creat1001> As I say, use what makes you happey, not me
18:38:13 <creat1001> As loang as I don't have to support it :)
18:38:18 <crc> I'm not aware of anything like this for xml (I have no desire to write a json or parser)
18:38:20 <tp> rdrop-exit, aha, thanks I see now
18:38:28 <rdrop-exit> We won't take your kool-aid away
18:38:36 <tp> lol
18:38:46 <rdrop-exit> :)
18:39:11 <tp> I use whats available, I tend to be software agnostic, really ... well I'm fond of Forth on embedded
18:39:24 <tp> and I wont use windows
18:39:33 <tp> or mac
18:39:41 <creat1001> Windows?  Whats that?
18:39:57 <tp> it's a white goods operating system for the unwashed masses
18:39:59 <rdrop-exit> I'm ok with Mac, at least it's POSIX
18:40:07 <creat1001> I'll remember tomorrow unfortunetly whilst working
18:40:23 <rdrop-exit> I haven't touched Windows in many many years
18:40:32 <tp> rdrop-exit, I cant afford any mac hardware so Ill never have any
18:40:50 <tp> last time I uses windows was in august 1997
18:41:00 <creat1001> I wish
18:41:16 <rdrop-exit> Me too, sometime in the 90s
18:41:21 <tp> creat1001, yeah lots have to use windows I know
18:41:41 <creat1001> At home I have been using Linux since 1995
18:41:48 <tp> Im lucky, I hated microsoft junk so much I designed a life that didnt have to use it
18:41:57 <creat1001> Before then Coherrent Unix
18:41:59 <tp> creat1001, awesome!
18:42:05 <rdrop-exit> cool
18:42:22 <tp> my first unix experience was with Yggdrassil Linux in 1993
18:42:26 <crc> I have a mac, outside of using it to test impexus, I use it only to update a few iOS programs since I can't build them on iOS yet. Windows I use at work. My main setup is an iPad + Ergodox keyboard with ssh/mosh connections to bsd servers.
18:42:48 <tp> I installed it on a pc, it found my video, sound card and cdrom all automagically
18:43:00 <creat1001> I down loaded off a BBS in 1991, but it was not ready then
18:43:23 <tp> creat1001, yeah, Linux was only released in initial form in 1991
18:43:32 <rdrop-exit> We used to have an AT&T Unix PC at the office, slow as molasses
18:43:59 <creat1001> I used one of those little sys5 mabell boxes
18:44:05 <tp> but being a windows user, it took me until 1997 after years of 'playing around' with Linux to go full time
18:44:24 <rdrop-exit> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Unix_PC
18:44:54 <tp> in 1993 I couldnt mount a file system, I couldnt do anything except play reversi on Yggdrasil with X windows
18:46:05 <tp> so I bought "unix for the impatient", "Beginning Linux" and read them for 4 years
18:46:19 <creat1001> I started using X windows at home probably in 1993
18:46:30 <tp> nice.
18:46:34 <creat1001> X was hard then
18:46:40 <creat1001> to setup that is
18:47:05 <tp> my machine running yggdrasil just blew my mind! sadly the Trident video card driver was terrible and Xwindows kept locking up
18:47:44 <creat1001> Yeah, X was shaky for a few years
18:47:44 <tp> but from the moment I first saw *unix, I knew we were made for each other
18:47:54 <creat1001> Me too
18:48:08 <tp> I'm now very fond of Openindiana although this is a FreeBSD box
18:48:08 <creat1001> I am sill a command line guy.
18:49:12 <tp> I ran Linux 1997 - 2016 then FreeBSD 
18:49:27 <rdrop-exit> I've been wanting to buy a box and setup NetBSD, but I keep procrastinating
18:49:33 <tp> well the CLI sis where we do our cool stuff
18:49:47 <dave0> i was a die-hard amiga fan until about '98
18:49:53 <tp> some people say I procrastinate ///
18:50:14 <dave0> i didn't get a ibm pc until '99
18:50:19 <tp> dave0, good on ya, I never was a fan but they were pretty cool
18:50:46 <crc> I need to get a netbsd system up and running but haven't had any luck getting it to boot on my vps servers yet
18:51:02 <tp> Im still mad at the Amiga for keeping me waiting for 1/2 hr waiting for 'guru meditation' to fix the problem ....
18:52:18 <tp> back to XML ?
18:52:55 <rdrop-exit> I think that topic has been exhausted
18:53:09 <tp> my current holdup with XML is converting decimal to hex so I can use absolute addressing in my generated memmaps and bitfields
18:53:48 <tp> i have a beta working but it screws up about 10 in 10,000 calculations, so inst reliable enough
18:54:05 <tp> ok, I can see there just isnt any XML love here!
18:54:24 <creat1001> XM-HELL
18:54:39 <tp> i'll have to complain to the international XML society about this channel!
18:54:48 <tp> creat1001, hahah
18:55:17 <rdrop-exit> You need to file your complaint in XML
18:55:34 <tp> ok, Im going back to finishing my latest Forth development environment bug fix
18:56:03 <rdrop-exit> keep on keepin' on
18:56:13 <tp> rdrop-exit, I just parse it, I dont actually write any XML
18:56:33 <tp> okies, bbl, is lunch time here!
18:56:41 <rdrop-exit> No excuses, you'll always be known as XML-boy
18:56:44 <creat1001> That sounded like a cry for help line TP
18:57:12 <rdrop-exit> Bon appetit, tp :)
18:57:48 <tp> rdrop-exit, that just hurts man, Im going to be crying into my egg-yum patties now!
18:58:01 <rdrop-exit> lol
18:58:02 <tp> XML-boi indeed!
18:58:17 <tp> bbl :)
18:58:30 <rdrop-exit> ciao :)
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22:35:20 <tp> latest bug fixed, logfile parser much more robust now, lessons learned, life is good
22:35:39 <tp> and stomach is full of egg yum foo!
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