00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.09.13
00:00:08 <rdrop-exit> Since hi was postponed, " hello world" will be printed until later when foo2 is executed
00:00:21 <rdrop-exit> * won't be printed
00:01:06 <tp> got it, Ive been running your examples in Mecrisp-Stellaris 
00:01:14 <tp> thank you!
00:01:29 <tp> Ive had this problem before and didnt know how to address it
00:02:39 <rdrop-exit> Not the clearest example, and it only illustrates the case where the word being postponed is immediate
00:03:06 <tp> i certainly understand it tho, thats a start
00:04:16 <rdrop-exit> When you postpone a non-immediate word, it postpones the compiling of the word being postponed.
00:04:32 <rdrop-exit> Clear as mud ;-)
00:04:54 <tp> i understand that
00:04:54 <rdrop-exit> Basically it boils down to this:
00:05:17 <rdrop-exit> : foo () postpone zeeborb ;
00:05:43 <tp> it's similar to a immediate words being postponed, except the non-immediate word compiling is postponed ?
00:06:52 <rdrop-exit> If zeeborb is an immediate word (i.e. it normally executes at compile-time), it will now execute when foo as part of foo's execution.
00:07:26 <tp> but zeeborb was previously defined and compiled ?
00:07:54 <rdrop-exit> While if zeeborb is a non-immediate word (i.e. one that is normally compiled when encountered at compile-time), it's compiling will be postponed until foo is executed.
00:08:18 <rdrop-exit> Yes, this all assumes zeeborb was already defined
00:08:51 <tp> so zeeborb gets compiled again when foo is called ?
00:09:19 <rdrop-exit> Yes, not redefined, compiled
00:09:44 <tp> ok, point absorbed
00:09:59 <tp> but why compile zeeborb again?
00:10:21 <tp> is something in zeeborb tied to foo somehow ?
00:10:51 <tp> my "indirection-shit-o-meter" is on 90 %
00:10:56 <rdrop-exit> Let's say I want to define a special version of IF that says " I'm deciding" before taking the branch:
00:11:58 * tp tries to bolt his brain down so it wont fly off the desk ...
00:12:49 <tp> I like IF as it is!
00:13:04 <rdrop-exit> : thinking ." I'm deciding" ;
00:13:22 <tp> oh, ok
00:13:43 <rdrop-exit> : newif ( x -- )  postpone thinking  postpone if ; immediate
00:14:28 <tp> oh oh, reality shift ...
00:14:47 <rdrop-exit> : foo ( x -- ) newif ." yes" else ." no" ;
00:15:18 <rdrop-exit> oops
00:15:28 <rdrop-exit> : foo ( x -- ) newif ." yes" else ." no" then ;
00:15:33 <rdrop-exit> forgot the then
00:16:02 <tp> I see where thats going
00:16:37 <rdrop-exit> Notice that thinking is a non-immediate word, and that if is an immediate word
00:16:45 <tp> : newif ( x -- )  postpone thinking  postpone if ; immediate  <-- illustrates your point
00:17:15 <tp> yes I see that
00:18:02 <tp> I have oftem wondered how to use immediate words with non-immediate words
00:18:05 <rdrop-exit> newif is immediate, just like a typical IF would be (at least in most Forths)
00:18:08 <tp> now i know :)
00:18:36 <tp> sure, that would work fine in Mecrisp-Stellaris
00:19:58 <tp> 1 foo I'm decidingyes ok.
00:19:58 <tp> 0 foo I'm decidingno ok.
00:20:31 <rdrop-exit> postponing has the effect of delaying the normal compile-time action of a word, but what that action normally is depends on whether the word being postponed is immediate or not.
00:20:46 <tp> thank you Forth Zen Guru, youve raised my Forth understanding another level!
00:21:00 <rdrop-exit> Cool :)
00:21:17 <tp> and thats a massive thing for me
00:21:37 <tp> every new feature I learn I soon employ in my development system
00:22:30 <tp> which never stops improving, Forth a lifelong obsession!
00:23:25 <rdrop-exit> Absolutely, always alternating between using the knife and sharpening the knife :)
00:23:39 <tp> thats so ZEN!
00:24:16 <tp> I really enjoyed Tings "the Zen of Forth"
00:24:54 <tp> that book feels planted in the ground like a 1000 year old oak
00:25:21 --- join: nullnullnull (~alaa@bzq-79-177-10-126.red.bezeqint.net) joined #forth
00:25:27 <rdrop-exit> I just downloaded some Ting stuff to read, it's been quite a while since I last read any of his writings, looking forward to it.
00:26:29 <tp> did you get 'the Zen of Forth" ?
00:27:01 <tp> i must put it in my ereader I could read it again and again
00:28:05 <tp> rdrop-exit, I've been making my own small copper rivets for PCB prototypes
00:28:50 <nullnullnull> anyone knows why this code is not working properly? (execution of 2 tasks in parallel)
00:28:51 <nullnullnull> https://justpaste.it/2ik98
00:29:00 <tp> friends say "but you can get 100 brass rivets from china for $4, why make them??" however it's a great challenge working with copper 4mm x2mm
00:30:11 <rdrop-exit> Wow
00:30:37 <rdrop-exit> I have eForth and Zen, is that the one you mean?
00:30:39 --- join: dys (~dys@2003:5b:203b:100:a64c:c8ff:fef4:13a6) joined #forth
00:31:44 <tp> ah it may be
00:31:58 <tp> ting designed eforth
00:32:32 <rdrop-exit> yes
00:32:51 <tp> making tiny copper rivets is a bit like Forth theyre both so malleable, the limit is in ones mind 
00:33:22 <tp> my first prototype worked fine, the next version will be much improved
00:33:30 <rdrop-exit> The original was Bill Meunch (sp?) IIRC, but most other versions are Ting
00:33:39 <rdrop-exit> Kudos
00:34:08 <tp> https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/prototyping.html?highlight=prototype#copper-rivets
00:34:31 <tp> it looks horrible up close, but what doesnt ?
00:34:49 <tp> at that magnification any flaw looks gogantic
00:34:53 <tp> gigantic
00:35:33 <rdrop-exit> Wow
00:36:25 <tp> it looks fine to the naked eye, but the next one will look so much better 
00:43:02 <rdrop-exit> I wouldn't even try. All thumbs, that's my curse :)
00:43:33 <rdrop-exit> Need to walk the dogs, catch you again soon
00:43:39 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Quit: Lost terminal)
00:44:10 <tp> no worries, thanks again for the fantastic postpone tutorial
01:03:53 <proteusdude> andom4Me
01:04:48 <proteusdude> wrong window - sorry
01:06:23 <tp> proteusdude, I know a password when I see it! for $50 I'll never tell anyone I saw it here ;-)
01:06:39 <proteusdude> hahaha you want that in Bitcoin?
01:06:56 <tp> heheh, no, USD please
01:06:59 <tp> cash
01:07:30 <proteusdude> too late - it's no longer a password.
01:07:38 <tp> cant beat the good greenback!
01:07:48 <tp> damn, I hate that when it happens
01:08:07 <tp> i was nearly a fiftyaire !
01:09:09 --- quit: nullnullnull (Remote host closed the connection)
01:13:16 --- join: nullnullnull (~alaa@bzq-79-177-10-126.red.bezeqint.net) joined #forth
01:25:04 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@cm-58-10-208-146.revip7.asianet.co.th) joined #forth
01:25:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy
01:34:02 --- nick: jn___ -> jn__
02:28:15 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection)
02:35:34 <tp> http://forth.org/OffeteStore/1013_eForthAndZen.pdf  <-- eforth and zen download
03:34:51 --- join: rdrop-exit (~markwilli@112.201.170.86) joined #forth
03:38:01 --- join: mtsd (~mtsd@77.110.61.100) joined #forth
03:45:21 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth
05:01:20 --- quit: DKordic (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
05:23:48 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth
05:49:56 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Quit: Lost terminal)
06:36:14 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: Leaving)
07:04:50 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
07:33:09 --- join: xek (~xek@user-94-254-232-167.play-internet.pl) joined #forth
07:35:47 --- join: xek_ (~xek@public-gprs402799.centertel.pl) joined #forth
07:38:00 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
08:12:22 --- quit: cp- (Quit: Disappeared in a puff of smoke)
08:17:37 --- join: cp- (~cp@b157153.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth
08:22:25 --- join: ryke (~Thunderbi@mail.homecaregiverstn.org) joined #forth
08:29:51 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here)
08:37:23 --- quit: nullnullnull (Quit: Leaving)
10:09:09 --- quit: xek_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
10:17:48 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
10:19:13 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h109-187-49-131.dyn.bashtel.ru) joined #forth
10:27:09 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-101-45.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth
10:33:35 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
10:55:04 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-101-45.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth
11:07:50 --- join: WickedShell (~WickedShe@159-118-128-145.cpe.cableone.net) joined #forth
11:32:00 --- quit: kori (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
11:54:31 --- join: xek_ (~xek@user-94-254-232-167.play-internet.pl) joined #forth
12:53:35 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
13:14:48 --- quit: sigjuice (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
13:16:55 --- join: sigjuice (~sigjuice@107.170.193.86) joined #forth
13:42:11 --- quit: siraben (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
13:42:25 --- quit: jimt[m] (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
13:42:33 --- quit: nonlinear[m] (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
13:54:10 --- join: jimt[m] (jimtmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xmkolqggnaomubmx) joined #forth
14:46:41 --- quit: xek_ (Remote host closed the connection)
14:47:35 --- join: nonlinear[m] (nonlineari@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-myuairhedpuvohbf) joined #forth
14:47:35 --- join: siraben (sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ybikfjmfntxtwcld) joined #forth
14:48:09 --- join: xek (~xek@user-94-254-232-167.play-internet.pl) joined #forth
14:49:41 --- quit: xek (Remote host closed the connection)
14:49:58 --- join: xek (~xek@user-94-254-232-167.play-internet.pl) joined #forth
14:53:07 --- join: xek_ (~xek@public-gprs401012.centertel.pl) joined #forth
14:56:03 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
15:33:35 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
15:59:34 --- quit: xek_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
16:20:22 --- join: ryke (~Thunderbi@199.102.183.106) joined #forth
16:34:38 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
16:37:41 --- quit: cheater (Remote host closed the connection)
17:11:53 --- join: ryke (~Thunderbi@199.102.183.106) joined #forth
17:40:26 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth
18:12:21 --- join: dave0 (~davezero@211.26.155.69) joined #forth
18:13:06 --- join: rdrop-exit (~markwilli@112.201.170.86) joined #forth
20:15:51 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
20:32:51 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h109-187-49-131.dyn.bashtel.ru) joined #forth
20:44:04 --- quit: Keshl (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20:44:46 --- join: Keshl (~Purple@207.44.70.214.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth
20:53:26 --- join: Keshl_ (~Purple@207.44.70.214.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth
20:53:31 --- quit: Keshl (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20:59:17 --- nick: Keshl_ -> Keshl
21:10:34 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here)
21:21:03 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
21:45:11 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection)
23:03:14 --- join: dave0 (~davezero@211.26.155.69) joined #forth
23:36:05 --- join: ryke (~Thunderbi@71-9-171-192.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com) joined #forth
23:39:51 --- quit: WickedShell (Remote host closed the connection)
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/19.09.13