00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.08.26 00:18:49 --- join: dys (~dys@2003:5b:203b:100:a64c:c8ff:fef4:13a6) joined #forth 03:18:25 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 04:41:31 --- quit: cp (Quit: Disappeared in a puff of smoke) 04:42:33 --- join: cp (~cp@b157153.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 05:08:52 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 05:20:34 20:07:11 every Apple OSX and every *BSD PC runs Forth when it boots 05:20:47 this isn't actually true :( 05:22:20 netbsd and openbsd boot loaders aren't in forth, and freebsd is moving to a lua based loader in release 13 05:23:35 macos on ppc boots using openfirmware, but this isn't present on the x86/x86-64 versions, or on the variations running on ARM hardware 05:42:51 --- join: xek_ (~xek@apn-37-248-138-200.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl) joined #forth 05:47:54 --- quit: xek_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 07:05:28 --- join: jedb_ (~jedb@103.254.153.113) joined #forth 07:08:09 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 07:24:50 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 08:11:29 --- join: logiqub (5ca33649@amontsouris-651-1-184-73.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #forth 08:36:26 --- quit: jedb_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 10:14:47 --- join: ryke (~Thunderbi@71-9-169-152.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com) joined #forth 10:42:04 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 10:51:12 --- join: reepca (~user@208.89.170.37) joined #forth 11:07:30 --- quit: cantstanya (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:14:15 --- join: cantstanya (~chatting@gateway/tor-sasl/cantstanya) joined #forth 11:20:46 --- quit: pareidolia (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 11:21:06 --- join: jedb (~jedb@103.254.153.113) joined #forth 11:24:23 --- join: pareidolia (~pareidoli@87.213.124.143) joined #forth 11:42:16 --- join: wildtrees (~wildtrees@unaffiliated/wildtrees) joined #forth 11:59:03 --- join: xek_ (~xek@apn-37-248-138-200.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl) joined #forth 12:08:26 --- join: mtsd (~mtsd@94-137-100-130.customers.ownit.se) joined #forth 12:49:31 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: Leaving) 13:00:25 --- quit: xek_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 13:14:28 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 13:30:55 --- join: ryke (~Thunderbi@71-9-169-152.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com) joined #forth 13:47:43 --- join: dave0 (~dave0@069.d.003.ncl.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 14:07:41 --- quit: jpsamaroo (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 14:08:51 --- quit: logiqub (Remote host closed the connection) 14:30:25 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 14:59:38 --- join: jpsamaroo (~jpsamaroo@2605:a601:a39c:7b00:ead8:7321:f185:d7a5) joined #forth 15:16:34 --- join: newuser|4 (c7212028@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.199.33.32.40) joined #forth 15:23:07 --- quit: newuser|4 (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 16:14:33 --- join: TheCephalopod (~john@unaffiliated/john-cephalopoda/x-6407167) joined #forth 16:16:23 --- quit: john_cephalopoda (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16:17:02 --- nick: TheCephalopod -> john_cephalopoda 16:17:38 --- join: rdrop-exit (~markwilli@112.201.162.86) joined #forth 16:30:03 --- join: ryke (~Thunderbi@71-9-169-152.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com) joined #forth 16:38:18 crc, oh dear, I had better stop making this claim then. I did read on the FreeBSD irc channel a few years ago that they were considering Python for the bootloader as nobody in the core team had any Forth experience 16:39:00 crc, thanks for the information 16:41:34 no problem 16:42:26 it's disappointing, but ficl (which they used) is buggy 16:44:51 I have FICL here it seemed ok, but I did crash it a few times 16:46:15 I dont know much about PC bootloaders but isnt there a issue of limited binary space during the process, and if so, will the large binary needed by Lua fit ? 16:47:15 tp: legacy boot starts in 16-bit real mode and if you want large programs you have to use segments 16:47:42 i'm pretty sure UEFI starts in 32-bit protected mode 16:49:11 dave0, and UEFI is controlled my microsoft who distributes the keys ? 16:49:29 UEFI is intel i believe 16:50:08 i think you mean SecureBoot 16:52:00 i thought uefi was put together by a commitee of the most malevolent organizations, lead by microsoft 16:55:22 i was only reading this the other day, written by sam falvo ii 16:55:25 With each passing day, technically capable consumers of computing technology increasingly lose their rights with computer hardware. The successful deployment of UEFI in the market, with Microsoft controlling which operating systems receive a key that permits it to be booted, poses a potential threat to system- and application-software and hardware development freedom. 16:55:27 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#Secure_boot_criticism 16:55:42 http://kestrelcomputer.github.io/kestrel/ 17:04:18 binary space is a concern, but on x86, they use the first ~600kb for the bootloader; lua fits in this, though it is considerably larger than the ficl based loader 17:07:31 * crc likes the kestrel; my old retro11 system was ported to run on an earlier iteration of it 17:16:08 --- join: [1]MrMobius (~default@c-73-134-82-217.hsd1.va.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:18:02 --- quit: MrMobius (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 17:18:02 --- nick: [1]MrMobius -> MrMobius 17:24:57 crc, is kestrel now redundant with ships like the RISC-V available ? 17:25:04 chips 17:27:16 http://kestrelcomputer.github.io/kestrel/2015/07/07/rapidio-retroforth-and-risc-v 17:28:00 "RetroForth is the very first language environment to successfully run on the Kestrel." :) 17:37:51 --- join: tabemann (~tabemann@h193.235.138.40.static.ip.windstream.net) joined #forth 18:07:55 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 18:31:06 --- quit: wildtrees (Quit: Leaving) 19:00:09 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 19:02:49 the current work on the kestrel is focused on a custom riscv processor 19:41:32 --- join: dave0 (~dave0@069.d.003.ncl.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 20:35:58 --- quit: dddddd (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:02:55 --- nick: cp -> cp- 21:18:27 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h109-187-46-216.dyn.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 22:03:32 --- quit: proteusdude (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 23:04:30 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/19.08.26