00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.07.30 00:21:13 --- join: xek (~xek@apn-31-0-23-83.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl) joined #forth 00:22:43 --- quit: ZombieChicken (Quit: WeeChat 2.5) 00:24:40 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 01:04:18 WilhelmVonWeiner, WOW, I just dl, flashed the cf2019.img to a usb stick, booted a Intel NUC (next unit of crap) with it and now I have a nice BIG FONT Color Forth! I was expecting the boot to take the usual Linux boot up time and was surprised that it booted INSTANTLY, but seeing as the image is only 500KB I shouldnt have been 01:05:13 --- quit: djinni (Quit: Leaving) 01:09:52 --- join: djinni (~djinni@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de) joined #forth 01:17:55 crazy fast, huh 01:18:05 we forget how good things could be 01:18:20 true 01:19:05 cf2019.img does crash the pc (restarts) when running some apps but theyre not really finished or debugged 01:19:08 IMHO Intel NUC is cute. 01:20:00 CORDIC, mine is cute and small, but it also has a notebook FAN inside and at full load the exhaust would boil skin I rekon 01:20:30 xD I didn't know that. 01:21:17 it's also pretty slow, lol I tried Atollic True Studio on it once ( huge bloated java stuff) and it was taking a couple of minutes per menu click 01:21:54 cute and small and SLOW means passive cooling ... maybe 01:22:06 cute and small and faster means a fan and HOT air 01:23:41 the NUC came in a hard cardboard box slightly bitter than the NUC itself, complete with intel graphics etc, and when I flipped the lid on the box, it PLAYED A TUNE! 01:24:24 I thought, "oh oh, did they spend their design budget on this crap instead of engineering?" 01:25:28 so there was a coincell and speaker/pcb in the damn cardboard box 01:26:41 Right. 01:26:57 Intel was going thru strange times after that, their attempt to take over top embedded spot from ARM crashed and burned with their Edison and Galileo products which were so bad, in the end they couldnt even GIVE THEM AWAY! 01:27:55 turned out if you didnt power down the Edison before puling any USB device, it BLEW UP the device you were removing, be it a USB hub or whatever 01:28:08 Yeah, I heard that Edison lived up to it's name ;) . 01:28:13 hahahah\ 01:28:46 Intel was sending boxes of free edisons to clubs and 'maker dens' in Ireland, but nobody wanted them 01:29:27 those that tried the free boards were soon pissed off that their USB gear was now blown up 01:30:16 tp: We had both of those and nobody wanted to touch them. 01:30:24 frankly I think a Gigabit 'brick' is cheaper and better that the NUC I have 01:30:30 Problem number one: power drain. Those chips sucked up ENORMOUS amounts of power. 01:30:38 ttmrichter, Intels touch of death 01:31:02 yeah I know. It seems Intel only know one way to do embedded 01:31:36 With batteries the size of Manhattan? 01:31:41 ttmrichter, remember kfoltman ? he blew up his USB hub with a free Edison 01:31:44 Oh, and they got REALLY hot. 01:32:33 tp: https://i.imgur.com/mmtXmpk.jpg https://i.imgur.com/OKJGpTy.jpg Finally managed to catch one on the way out the door. :D 01:32:47 intel after they went Wintel 100% forgot how to do small embedded, 8085/8047 etc and now only know SPEED at any price! 01:32:53 And ... wow. You can blow up a USB hub by ... unplugging? 01:34:12 ttmrichter, thats what kfoltman said 01:34:23 and man was he pissed off 01:34:28 I don't even know how that's POSSIBLE. 01:34:35 That's epic levels of incompetence. 01:34:49 ttmrichter, NICE, thats the most robust yet precise phone CLAMP I've ever seen! 01:36:25 I told you that it was a slick piece of kit. :D 01:36:30 yeah, kfoltman didnt know it was possible either until it happened 01:36:31 --- join: dys (~dys@2003:5b:203b:100:a64c:c8ff:fef4:13a6) joined #forth 01:36:34 And yeah, that clamp is unshakeable. 01:36:58 Our mechanical designer is really good at his job. 01:37:06 I thought it had it's own 4k didplay, but why bother when ... smartphone ? 01:37:30 No, that was the point. Why go through the difficulty and expense of making a 4K display when you can just plug a phone into it? :D 01:37:39 Our competition came with displays. 01:37:57 thats intelligent design! 01:38:05 So their units were bulky as all Hell, but at least had crap resolution to make up for it. 01:38:13 hahaha 01:38:25 yeh built in low res displays ? 01:38:39 (I think the best our competition could field was 1024x768 or maybe even 1024x600.) 01:39:07 so you kill them on price and resolution plus your smart features 01:39:16 I happen to have that very phone, so I know that display is 2244x1080. 01:39:50 (The deluxe model, if someone's stupid enough to buy it from us, has a 4K screen...) 01:40:04 amazing .. Id have said 'why bother with such res on a phone' before I saw your IR product pic just now 01:40:41 I was trying to set up the joint image, but ... I don't know the UI and the tester was getting antsy. :D 01:41:13 The joint image overlays that IR display over what the phone's camera sees. 01:41:14 lol, apparently Color Forth is actual ... Forth, but I have zero clue how to use it. At least it has HUGE fonts for us old guys 01:41:32 --- quit: remexre (Quit: WeeChat 2.4) 01:41:38 Does some REALLY sophisticated matching to make sure the IR is placed properly atop the image. 01:41:42 ah yes, thats a great feature 01:41:51 --- join: remexre (~nathan@x-160-94-179-186.acm.umn.edu) joined #forth 01:42:26 shouldnt have a problem finding intelligent remote camera software because ..... china ;-) 01:43:11 just ask the government for theirs ... 01:44:27 ttmrichter, so you captured a IR pic of a invisible alien or American CIA agent sneaking around your lab ? 01:44:37 This would be the "intelligent" software that fined someone a metric assload of money for "jaywalking" ... because his picture was on the side of buses? 01:44:52 yeah, exactly ;-) 01:44:55 That's our chief design engineer. 01:45:08 he has glasses ? 01:45:11 Looks like he's wearing shades, but really it's just normal glasses. 01:45:44 I guessed as a lot of glass blocks IR ? 01:45:58 I absolutely adore that product. Probably the thing I'm proudest of having had a hand in. 01:46:34 We're in the fourth round of sales. Because of the heat in the production area, all the testers and assemblers are in R&D (for the A/C). 01:46:35 cheap enuf for armies to bolt onto their rifles ? 01:46:51 There are about 500 of these things all over the place in piles! :D 01:46:53 summer in Wuhan ? 01:47:03 Yep. 01:47:21 it's winter here, around 3 -8 C in the early mornings 01:48:11 Im wearing cheap Aldi snow gloves on my pushbike atm, my fingers freeze while my hands get hot and sweaty 01:49:27 ttmrichter, is it true your chief design engineer ate a laptop before the pic was taken ? 01:54:18 No. You're seeing the soldering station he ate. 01:57:54 hahah 01:58:12 anyone know what the "AltGr key" is on a pc keyboard ? 02:03:18 Right Alt, IIRC? 02:03:26 You're trying to compose characters, right? 02:04:06 just following the colorforth pdf 02:04:20 trying to 1 1 + . but havent been able to yet 02:04:37 I'm ... not a fan. 02:04:57 I think Colorforth is Chuck going a bit into dementia. 02:05:26 seems to be either ALT key 02:06:00 Perhaps it's Chuck trying to make something he can actually see at age 80 ? 02:06:44 I'm not a fan either, Ive had colors for my Forth code for years 02:07:06 courtesy of Gvim Forth syntax colouring 02:07:56 ttmrichter, I also have coloured error messages from the Forth compiler (on chip) which ring my terminal bell 02:12:48 ttmrichter: colorForth is honestly great fun 02:12:49 just kinda hard to grok 02:12:49 Using arrayForth and the sim is fun. 02:12:49 ttmrichter, plus I auto strip all comments from my source before uploading so pages and pages of text notes in the source have zero impact on upload times 02:12:49 tp: the colours are more important than syntax highlighting 02:12:49 WilhelmVonWeiner, something Forth is hard to grok ??? tell us it's not true! 02:12:49 pre-parsed source 02:12:49 WilhelmVonWeiner, aha, that sounds interesting 02:12:50 --- quit: remexre (Quit: WeeChat 2.4) 02:12:50 I noted that CF was throwing up "?" as I try and enter source in my currently clueless state 02:12:50 did you read any documentation at all lol 02:12:50 you have to choose a block to edit 02:12:50 this is "pre-parsing" saying 'wtf are you doing pal?' ? 02:12:50 also the keyboard is *not* qwerty 02:12:50 read the documentation !! what are you some kind of pervert ? 02:12:50 ;-) 02:12:50 ""mine is 02:12:50 I do program at my best wearing nothing but my boxers... 02:12:59 this is a x86 CF so it has to be able to handle a PC keyboard, looks like it does 02:13:04 lol 02:13:06 though HR did ask me to stop 02:13:11 hahahahah 02:13:13 doesn't boxers obstruct your programming? 02:13:19 BWAHAHAH 02:14:27 lol. 02:14:38 WilhelmVonWeiner, I'm not criticising CF, I'm a 'old style' Forth user totally lost with CF 02:15:09 ill get the idea, I learnt Forth already coming from C, so there is hope for me yet 02:15:13 i'm not surprised 02:15:24 colorForth was confusing until it clicked for me 02:15:43 but I did use Retro Forth first which definitely helped 02:15:48 Forth was the same for me until that 'light bulb moment' 02:16:37 why did using retro help ? 02:16:48 because it uses prefixes to replace colouts 02:16:53 *colours 02:16:56 hmm, iirc I couldnt add 1 and 1 with retro either 02:17:09 oh yes 02:17:13 so name becomes :name 02:17:22 `1 1 + n:put` 02:17:23 aha 02:18:34 and you can define prefixes with the word `prefix:` which I don't think is plausible in CF without some asm hacking around I suppose 02:19:17 yeah, I have used Manfred Mahlows ‘Vocabularies’ with Mecrisp-Stellaris before but I found the use of Retros 'prefixes' a bit too different and wordy for me 02:20:01 I only write small Forth code for embedded so I havent needed namespaces etc 02:20:05 I love prefixes tbh 02:20:26 prefixes are certainly logical 02:20:59 CF is a kind of Forth, just not Forth as I know it 02:21:04 ... captain 02:33:48 --- quit: CORDIC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 02:34:53 --- join: CORDIC (~user@178-223-61-38.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) joined #forth 04:33:14 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Quit: Lost terminal) 04:45:40 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 05:15:43 WilhelmVonWeiner: that'd actually be `#1 #1 + n:put` 05:28:19 --- quit: dzho (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 05:29:45 --- join: dzho (~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 05:32:44 --- join: ryke (~Thunderbi@71-9-169-152.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com) joined #forth 06:01:24 LOL 06:01:32 I guess I don't know Retro either 06:03:57 just define prefixes for each starting digit :) 06:09:16 http://forth.works/examples/NumbersWithoutPrefix.forth.html 06:57:55 --- join: remexre (~nathan@x-160-94-179-186.acm.umn.edu) joined #forth 07:41:28 --- quit: chunkypuffs (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in) 07:46:10 --- join: chunkypuffs (~chunkypuf@static.203.112.216.95.clients.your-server.de) joined #forth 08:01:05 --- join: kvik (~kvik@unaffiliated/kvik) joined #forth 08:07:02 --- join: wildtrees (~wildtrees@unaffiliated/wildtrees) joined #forth 09:45:19 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 09:57:50 --- quit: remexre (Remote host closed the connection) 09:58:06 --- join: remexre (~nathan@x-160-94-179-186.acm.umn.edu) joined #forth 11:11:13 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 11:23:19 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 11:57:27 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-108-22.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 12:57:11 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 13:16:00 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 13:42:38 --- quit: tp (Remote host closed the connection) 13:42:57 --- join: tp (~Terry@2001:44b8:314b:a800::10) joined #forth 13:42:57 --- quit: tp (Changing host) 13:42:57 --- join: tp (~Terry@mecrisp/staff/tp) joined #forth 14:30:10 --- join: joe9 (~joe@c-71-226-56-200.hsd1.az.comcast.net) joined #forth 14:30:53 I want to try forth after a long time. I played around with gforth long time ago. I want to try pforth this time. Any beginner resources or suggestions, please? 14:54:38 Hi joe9 14:55:47 --- join: randomizeusr (bc3ced27@39.237.60.188.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch) joined #forth 14:55:50 pforth and gforth both pretty much do the same thing. They accept nearly the same language, with small differences here and there. 14:56:59 If you are relatively new to Forth, reading "Starting Forth" and "Thinking Forth" would be a good idea. Both freely available as e-books. 14:57:21 https://1scyem2bunjw1ghzsf1cjwwn-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Starting-FORTH.pdf 14:57:42 https://1scyem2bunjw1ghzsf1cjwwn-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/thinking-forth-color.pdf 15:01:07 --- part: randomizeusr left #forth 15:04:08 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 15:12:04 joe9: i'm slowly working through the two books recommended above and can highly recommend them both! 15:12:55 joe9: you can use pforth in plan 9 ;) 15:34:38 --- join: tme5 (~phoenix@185.214.220.197) joined #forth 15:36:06 super quick ANS question: the standard defines an execution token as representing execution semantics. So do words with no execution semantics have no xt, ie is ' IF undefined behaviour? 15:47:35 joe9: Thinking Forth by Brodie is also a very good read. 16:08:35 --- quit: tme5 (Quit: Leaving) 16:23:21 --- join: rdrop-exit (~markwilli@112.201.174.189) joined #forth 16:31:25 Good morning Forthwrights :) 16:45:23 --- join: TheCephalopod (~john@unaffiliated/john-cephalopoda/x-6407167) joined #forth 16:45:27 --- quit: john_cephalopoda (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16:46:13 --- nick: TheCephalopod -> john_cephalopoda 17:00:13 good evening rdrop-exit 17:03:32 Hi crc 17:27:00 yoh 17:54:49 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 17:56:04 --- join: X-Scale (~ARM@110.81.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt) joined #forth 18:11:40 --- quit: wildtrees (Quit: Leaving) 18:26:03 --- join: nullnullnull (~no@bzq-79-183-83-136.red.bezeqint.net) joined #forth 18:30:54 --- join: dave0 (~dave0@069.d.003.ncl.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 18:49:26 john_cephalopoda: thanks. 18:49:33 kvik: good to see you here. 19:01:57 --- join: karswell (~user@cust125-dsl91-135-5.idnet.net) joined #forth 19:23:40 --- quit: nullnullnull (Quit: Leaving) 20:06:45 Catching up on my SVFIG videos viewing backlog 20:27:35 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 20:29:47 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h109-187-31-225.dyn.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 21:06:16 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 21:18:36 --- quit: cantstanya (Remote host closed the connection) 21:21:25 --- join: cantstanya (~chatting@gateway/tor-sasl/cantstanya) joined #forth 21:30:17 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:04:58 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-121-154.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 22:46:17 --- join: dave0 (~dave0@069.d.003.ncl.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 22:53:54 --- join: ryke (~Thunderbi@71-9-169-152.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com) joined #forth 22:54:15 --- quit: rdrop-exit (Quit: Lost terminal) 23:06:04 --- join: Sweedish (~Sweedish@192-222-202-13.qc.cable.ebox.net) joined #forth 23:06:41 --- quit: Sweedish (Client Quit) 23:26:53 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@180.183.119.241) joined #forth 23:26:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/19.07.30