00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.07.25 00:08:24 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@mx-ll-14.207.173-34.dynamic.3bb.co.th) joined #forth 00:08:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 00:35:28 Multiple initiatives continue in 2019. An improved GA-144 evaluation board, EVB002, has been manufactured and may now be purchased from Greenarrays INC 00:35:51 A new chip, G144A2x, is being designed and will be largely upward compatible with the G144A12, but will have numerous improvements. 00:36:09 http://www.greenarraychips.com/ 00:36:25 The chips don't need upgrades. Their staff does. 00:36:32 hahah 00:37:02 Upgrade from "why are you pestering me about this appointment I've missed for three weeks and ongoing?" to "how can I help you?" 00:37:29 there is a note on the Greenarrays site stating their chip sales are restricted, especially to a "ttmrichter" 00:37:50 Well there is NOW. :D 00:38:24 how goes the Cortex-M0+ low power life ttmrichter ? 00:38:41 The funny part was MONTHS after their sales droid lashed out at me for missing the appointed conference calls (HE missed them, not me!), he sent off an email asking what the status of our project was. 00:39:11 yeah, sounds like the usual disorganised sales droid SOP 00:39:34 It goes nowhere at the moment. Windows crapped out on me and I've spent the last four days recovering data, upgrading the machine, and reinstalling everything. 00:40:16 you weren't tempted to reply with "awesome, we have sold 1 million units a day the last 3 months, it's too bad you missed out" ? 00:41:25 eww, a dead development machine is indeed horrible to hear of 00:41:49 my condolences ... 00:42:45 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 00:43:46 Slight green side to that pasture. 00:43:57 Jumped from an old 2-core Pentium to an 8-core i7. 00:44:07 4GB RAM has turned to 12GB. 00:44:16 nice 00:44:26 And I'm booting from an SSD now instead of a clunker HD. 00:44:58 this is a 8 core i7 with 32GB that I built around 2013 00:45:57 I live in fear of the water cooler bursting, draining water down onto the PSU which then electrocutes me 00:46:37 so in this case, driving the cores too hard and killing the CPU may kill me as well ;-) 00:48:04 Im about to replace the system SSD's (50GB each in raidz mirror) with 240GB SSDs I just bought recently, but my DATA stays on spinning disks as I dont trust SSD's which die in a instant 00:52:13 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 00:58:04 Same here. 00:58:24 sound reasoning indeed 00:58:40 My OSes (I now have a Linux installed as well!) are on the SSD. Critical apps that are huge and bloated (based on Java) will be on the SSD as well. 00:59:01 ALL documentation, source, repositories, etc. are on spinny metal. 00:59:45 the other SSD issue I have found is that they need to be a lot bigger than you need because when they are full, they slow down markedly, ie my system is about 40GB so the SSDs are 240GB 01:00:01 or spinny glass ? 01:01:46 I took apart a old IBM 2.5 hdd a while ago, it had my data on it so I attempted to bend the platter as I usually do and was startled when it went BANG and slivers of silvery glass went *everywhere*. Lucky I was wearing glasses at the time 01:03:35 Oh, right. Glass. My bad. 01:03:59 Both are used, but I think most modern ones are glass? 01:04:27 I dont know, typical IBM aways doing hitech things 01:04:29 (I know there's metal-plated ones because the reason I won't set foot inside the USA is related, peripherally, to a hard drive...) 01:05:17 ouch! 01:06:31 maybe it's IBM's way of making drives that are easy to utterly destroy the data on ? One concussive blow and the platter just bursts into tiny shards ? 01:07:14 try and stick all those shards back together ! 01:07:41 --- join: jedb (~jedb@185.128.24.51) joined #forth 01:09:26 At a job interview in Texas (Houston, so the more cosmopolitan part, even!) one of the managers had a weird-looking "sculpture" out on a table. I asked what it was. He said it was the platters of a hard drive that failed him. "I took it to the range and shot at it with this." He then pulled out a handgun from his desk and waved it around to show 01:09:26 it off. 01:09:46 So a hiring manager, talking to a prospect, thought it was just fine to pull out a gun. 01:10:23 I like him already! 01:10:30 It wasn't in a locked drawer. It WAS a revolver so I could physically see it was loaded. At least he didn't put his finger on the trigger, laying it alongside. But he DID just wave it around without ANY fire discipline whatsoever. 01:10:53 That was my little epiphany. 01:11:22 I've grown up with guns. My father was in the military AND was an avid hunter. Most of my extended family on my mother's side also hunts and all of them own weapons. 01:11:44 Every. Single. One of them would have bitch-slapped this guy until he was bleeding for the way he was waving that gun around. 01:13:00 Nobody in the company, however, even blinked or looked twice. 01:13:17 I know you don't like guns, I've made a commitment to never mention them to you and I know the feeling of people waving loaded guns around from personal experience 01:14:17 I have nothing against guns. I have something against idiots with guns. 01:14:30 and fair enough 01:14:34 It's just that tragically, most people are idiots. 01:15:06 I can't argue there 01:15:35 That being said, the "sculpture" did look cool. 01:15:40 hahahah 01:16:16 One bullet penetrated both the platters, and the other penetrated the first and flattened against the second (closer to the hub, so stronger). 01:16:26 I guess a few .357 holes in a platter ruin most of the data retrieval ability ? 01:16:50 Only two holes. Apparently not only was he an idiot at gun safety, he also sucked at shooting. :D 01:17:12 hahahah, most handgun owners cant hit anything 01:17:44 I spooked my pistol instructor (and myself) the one time I took pistol training. 01:18:41 I watched a guy with a .357 mag semi auto 'Desert Eagle' blasting away at a target over 25 metres, he fired 10 rounds and hit .... nothing, not even the large three ply backing board 01:18:55 I know, you hit the target first try 01:19:23 No, scarier than that. :D 01:19:34 you hit the bullseye first try 01:19:42 No, scarier than that. 01:19:51 you hit the bullseye first try with all rounds ? 01:20:10 For background: on rifles I shot respectably. Not "marksman" calibre but basically steady and reliable. 01:20:40 rifles are a lot easier 01:20:41 Typically I scored 80%+ at 100 yards. 01:20:55 So I was invited to take a pistol course. 01:21:03 Browning 9mm was the pistol of choice at the time. 01:21:15 I like that pistol, the Browning Hi power 01:21:22 (The rifles I fired were FNC1A1.) 01:21:25 That's the one. 01:21:39 We did our training and I sucked. 01:21:41 Ive shot the Browning High Power myself 01:21:50 At 25 yards I was getting scores dismally in the 60s. 01:22:01 AFTER a day of practice. 01:22:09 But then we did the pop-up exercise. 01:22:36 Random target pop-ups--"Hermann the German" cutouts--varying between 10 yards and 35 yards. 01:23:03 You went to the firing point, and at some varying interval five targets at five different ranges AND lateral locations popped up. 01:23:11 Five head shots. 01:23:18 with a pistol ??? 01:23:25 Pop-BANG-down. 01:23:28 Yes. 01:23:33 TOTAL freak accident. 01:23:40 I had NO idea what I was doing. 01:23:40 wow, I could never do that, few I know could 01:23:49 But five bullets hit five Hermann the German heads. 01:24:02 35 yards to a head shot is incredible with 9mm, unbelievable even 01:24:06 And I'd literally just walked away from a stationary target score at 25 yards of 65%. 01:24:20 HUGE bullseye. 01:24:36 I guess you took too long aiming at the stationary targets ? 01:24:38 Like, I swear the target was almost as tall as I was and equally wide. 01:24:59 The instructor was royally pissed with me. He thought I was a show-off that was toying with him. 01:25:03 Forced me to do it again. 01:25:13 And of course second time I did it I winged one of the five targets. 01:25:30 (A mid-range one, likely 20 yards.) 01:25:39 my last match a week ago, standing, 357 magnum, 25 yards was about 60 % :) 01:25:44 Four misses, one non-fatal hit. 01:25:55 stress! 01:26:10 But that first one? That was legendary. :D 01:26:30 How big was your 25 yard target? 01:26:43 yeah, relaxed and dont care makes for legendary shooting 01:26:49 'Cause the ones I was aiming at were rifle targets typically used at 100 yards. 01:27:01 So they were HUGE at 25 yards. 01:27:12 And even with that I scored only 65 at my best. 01:27:14 the black circle is 8 inches 01:27:54 These had four rings and I think the middle one was probably closer to 12, maybe even 15 inches. 01:28:23 Basically I suck at handguns. I'll never buy one of those because it'd be a massive waste of money. 01:28:33 If I ever own a weapon, it'll be a longarm. I'm decent with those. 01:28:39 I can get about 95% on a good day using a .22 target pistol, standing 01:29:18 But that feeling, man, when you get five head shots in rapid succession and then have the range master shouting at you for "faking". :D 01:29:22 handguns do suck, theyre slightly better than a knife but woeful compared to any rifle 01:29:35 Get close enough and I'd rather have the knife. 01:29:38 hahahaha, I can imagine 01:30:07 For most purposes I'd probably like a shotgun if I got a weapon. 01:31:16 I have a Uberti 1873 replica rifle with a 24" octagonal barrel chambered in 357 magnum, it is awesome even today, and must have seemed like a laser weapon back in 1873 01:31:38 it's flawless and never jams, smooth as silk 01:31:58 I sold my shotgun, I cant hit a barn door with it 01:32:05 the recoil was brutal 01:32:34 I think that the true purpose of a shotgun is to 'clear ones way thru a angry crowd" 01:34:04 then we have the real sharpshooters at our club, they do put a 9mm headshot in two targets at 25 metres in about 1 second, Ive no idea how they do that time after time 01:34:27 being young and practising every week helps I guess 01:36:06 ttmrichter, we are in the wrong biz! theyre selling STEM kits for kids here 'make a laptop' some cheap plastic crap with a RPI3 and python with the SKETCH programming language for $360 AUD 01:37:00 ... turn your kid into a jigsaw puzzle programming genius 01:42:31 Yeah, I know. The amount of stupid shit that's being sold as "innovative" gets on my nerves sometimes. 01:43:08 I guess Forth is too hard for kids to learn ? ;-) 01:43:23 altho the LEGGO robots used it 01:43:40 OLPC had a great Forth tutorial 01:45:39 Forth suffers in the education field from a different problem. 01:46:07 "Education" is basically just job training these days, and Forth doesn't lead to fungible coding drones. 01:47:41 hahahahaahah "fungible coding drones" is why I'll never be a master ranter like you! 02:06:41 --- join: dys (~dys@p200300C9D701920002265EFFFEE968D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 04:22:04 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 05:06:50 --- join: dave0 (~dave0@069.d.003.ncl.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 05:35:20 tp, if only 357 magnum had existed in 1873 :P 05:36:16 MrMobius, true! 05:36:31 but probably 44/40 would have been ok 05:36:57 and of course ... black powder 05:48:21 that instructor was dumb. it's pretty normal for new handgun shooters to do abnormally well at first if they're following good technique. once you get the basics down, most of the challenge with handguns is overcoming anticipation of the recoil (the flinch), and a new shooter doesn't have that. usually people new to shooting get worse over time before they get better 05:49:48 wait ... the troll is making sense ? 05:50:29 zy]x[yz, actually youre wrong 05:51:08 well maybe youre right about their first ever shoot 05:51:18 damn! Forth is AWESOME! 05:51:36 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 05:51:41 i mean, i've seen it for myself with new shooters but alright 05:52:06 and experienced it 05:53:38 I've been shooting handguns for about 6 years in two 3 year stints with 25 years inbetween and I cant remember what I shot like at first! 05:54:21 I do know that most first time shooters with no experience and no knowledge of correct technique usually are terrible shots 05:54:42 yeah, that's why i said as long as you have good technique 05:54:48 but "knowing" the right technique is totally different than doing it 05:55:16 with a new shooter, technique is the bottleneck. with an intermediate shooter, flinch becomes the bottleneck 05:55:39 besides, there are so many ways to screw up, no one can tell you about them all, let alone how to counter them 05:56:00 no, no one flinches from a .22 pistol or a airgun 05:56:18 even 9mm are pretty mild 05:56:19 who the fuck ks talking about .22s and airguns? 05:56:24 me 05:56:32 9mm absolutely does induce flinch 05:56:42 .22 handguns are the most accurate handguns in existence 05:56:50 extremely not true 05:56:55 maybe for girls like you 05:57:11 now who's the troll here? 05:57:16 :) 05:57:35 i wasnt trolling, I was insulting you 05:57:48 two totally different things :) 05:58:25 zy]x[yz, have a look at the 50m precision pistol in the Olympics, what do they use ? 05:58:53 anyway, Im not discussing guns here anymore, this is a Forth channel! 06:02:04 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 06:23:11 at last! I now have a nice neat 4 column Word list for Mecrisp-Stellaris 06:23:35 I always wanted one since I saw one in Flash Forth 06:26:41 right, because caliber choice in an olympic sport couldn't possibly have anything to do with the restrictions of the sport 06:28:04 it's a lightweight projectile moving at relatively low speed. sorry, that is not going to qualify as "most accurate" anything. sufficient? almost certainly. most? drfinitely not 06:57:53 i love how gun talk seems to bring out the pedantry in everybody 06:58:16 on the contrary, i find that it brings out the cargo cultists 06:58:19 seems to be a recurring theme 07:08:49 --- join: ryke (~Thunderbi@24-158-196-134.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) joined #forth 07:24:27 --- join: dfode (~dfode@107-142-208-237.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 07:31:22 i also don't see how it's pedantry to correct just blatantly wrong and unfounded assertions 07:31:51 i thought this was a programming channel. normally we hate it when people say things that are wrong 07:33:16 it does drive me loco bananas when people aren't as right as I am unless I change my opinion 07:38:00 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h109-187-197-17.dyn.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 07:40:26 pedantry: well it depends on what you mean by accurate. as far as rounds on target at that range with that type of weapon... 07:40:30 etc 07:40:41 now let the stupidity ensue 07:41:06 so no not "blatantly wrong" 07:41:25 i'm not sure what you mean. this isn't opinion, it's physics 07:41:46 no 07:42:01 only if you agree on what you mean by accuracy 07:42:16 hence the pedantry 07:42:21 this is some "my truth" leftist bullshit 07:42:28 no 07:42:28 nope 07:43:26 whatever, nerds 07:43:46 .22 Long Rifle is the most accurate calibre, period. Not the most powerful or the most noisy 07:44:19 you keep telling yourself that 07:44:20 people spend tens of thousands of dollars on their .22 rifles 07:44:36 I'm speaking from experience troll 07:44:55 people spend tens of thousands of dollars on their .308s, too. what does that have to do with anything? 07:45:27 they put harmonic balances on the barrels, they do all kinds of complex stuff and build the rifle so that it is the most accurate 07:45:40 no shit 07:45:56 nothing, stick to the point if youre able 07:46:10 you're the one veering off point! 07:47:10 your argument is literally "some people enjoy shooting .22s and so they invest a lot of time and money into it, therefore it is the objectively the most accurate round available" 07:47:13 can you remember the point ? 07:47:40 dumbass europeans, man 07:48:05 please state the point exactly, failure to do so will result in me putting you on ignore ... permanently 07:48:23 i don't owe you a dance 07:48:40 put me on ignore and continue living in your fantasy world 07:52:57 --- join: PoppaVic (~PoppaVic@unaffiliated/poppavic) joined #forth 07:54:35 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 07:54:49 --- part: PoppaVic left #forth 07:55:05 --- join: jedb_ (~jedb@103.254.153.113) joined #forth 07:57:29 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 08:06:15 please stop 08:06:37 pairs of people ignoring eachother on irc is a PITA 08:14:53 --- quit: dfode (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 08:40:15 well the good news is i didn't ignore him 08:40:28 but i also should probably just keep it to myself next time 08:53:21 so, something less abrasive... 08:53:41 let's talk about ABORTION and our opinions on it :^) 08:53:48 hm, maybe not?... 08:54:35 tab is the superior character for indentation 08:54:52 THIS MEANS WAR. 08:55:14 no, after I stopped caring about whitespace I embraced the humble tab 08:56:16 stoic, holding up characters with nothing but his wits and his width; the tab is a true source of inspiration. 09:04:16 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@cm-58-10-208-146.revip7.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 09:04:16 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 09:12:55 --- quit: Sweedish (Quit: Leaving) 09:46:24 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 10:42:01 I just wrote a block editor http://ix.io/1Psp 10:42:01 It support arbitrary window sizes, the arrow keys for movement, and editing text. 10:45:39 The plan is to use the drcs sixel characters for a block editor based vlsi cad tool kinda like okad. 10:49:10 pointfree: Pretty cool. 10:50:13 Thanks! 10:58:21 pointfree: love the simplicity 10:59:16 doesn't support backspace apparently? 10:59:28 pointfree: using sixel is a great idea 10:59:29 could be gforth 11:00:06 Only arrow keys and overwriting of text at the moment 11:01:57 bugfix: http://ix.io/1PsB 11:46:39 --- join: wildtrees (~wildtrees@unaffiliated/wildtrees) joined #forth 12:15:58 --- join: xek_ (~xek@apn-31-0-23-201.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl) joined #forth 12:18:12 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 12:25:08 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 13:07:53 pointfree: how do I use the editor? after typing a few characters I get just various numbers displayed until I kill it 13:11:21 crc: What terminal emulator are you using? I tested this in mlterm and xterm. 13:11:55 termite (vte-based) didn't work. 13:13:30 putty, on windows, ssh to a linux box 13:27:29 it also fails to work on the iOS ssh clients (prompt and blink); on these, it takes hitting character 6 times before it appears and arrows aren't working at all as far as I can tell 13:28:40 I have no other terminal emulators, so this doesn't work at all for me 13:31:11 nor me, on Mecrisp-Stellaris ;-) 13:31:39 but I don't use a block editor anyway 13:34:29 In termite, if I hold down a key on the keyboard, characters are received too fast and it seems to interfere with `: moving drop emit key emit char 1 emit key emit ;` 13:34:29 The `moving` word is a combination of arrow keys reporting and setting of the cursor position, which is the same except for the number `1` ( to move one up/down/left/right) http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prompt-HOWTO/x361.html 13:37:54 I'm working on a new editor for my system, but it's rather esoteric in interface and operation 13:38:45 pointfree: I don't think that's the problem on mine; I'm not holding anything down, and type rather slowly 13:55:39 crc: Works for me in putty on linux with gforth 13:56:32 what version of gforth? 13:56:55 gforth 0.7.9_20190103 amd64 13:57:53 from the git repo because the stable release is super old 13:57:56 hmm, might be a bug in my gforth (gforth 0.7.0) 13:58:45 I'll have to try rebuilding from source tomorrow 13:59:05 Yeah the stable release has various small bugs of this sort. 15:34:29 --- join: ryke (~Thunderbi@24-158-196-134.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) joined #forth 15:43:56 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 16:43:01 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16:51:15 --- quit: john_cephalopoda (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16:59:34 --- quit: wildtrees (Quit: Leaving) 17:00:44 --- join: xek__ (~xek@apn-31-0-23-83.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl) joined #forth 17:02:58 --- quit: xek_ (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 17:04:57 --- join: john_cephalopoda (~john@unaffiliated/john-cephalopoda/x-6407167) joined #forth 17:13:44 --- nick: jedb_ -> jedb 17:22:59 --- join: dave0 (~dave0@069.d.003.ncl.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 18:28:26 editor with arrow keys + unlimited undo-redo history :) 18:28:26 `: esc 27 emit ; : editor here here esc ." [2J" esc ." [H" begin key dup c, dup emit 113 = until here - abs ; evaluate ( q to quit editor)` 18:28:26 this is all I need for editing in my specific application at the moment `evaluate` the recorded keyboard interaction to execute the source code including all the cursor movements. It worked in mecrisp. 19:09:03 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@cm-58-10-208-146.revip7.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 19:09:03 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 19:45:35 --- quit: tabemann (Remote host closed the connection) 19:45:41 --- join: tabemann (~tabemann@2600:1700:7990:24e0:c89e:4017:851e:e95e) joined #forth 19:49:34 --- quit: louisg (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 19:49:43 --- quit: remexre (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 19:51:36 --- join: remexre (~nathan@x-160-94-179-186.acm.umn.edu) joined #forth 19:53:18 --- join: louisg (~louisg@x-160-94-179-187.acm.umn.edu) joined #forth 20:33:44 --- quit: ryke (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 21:12:17 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h109-187-197-17.dyn.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 21:50:10 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 22:45:49 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 23:24:52 --- join: dys (~dys@p200300C9D701730002265EFFFEE968D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 23:32:14 --- join: rdrop-exit (~markwilli@112.201.174.189) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/19.07.25