00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.05.20
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02:11:57 <WilhelmVonWeiner> good morgning
02:12:01 <WilhelmVonWeiner> late for work
02:12:06 <WilhelmVonWeiner> :^)
02:12:08 <WilhelmVonWeiner> )))
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02:34:32 <dave0> re
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05:24:05 <yrm> Hi all.
05:25:46 <yrm> I made a tiny PC, tiny OS and tiny FORTH-engine for kids to learn programming.
05:26:14 <yrm> https://yrm006.wordpress.com/?p=9171
05:29:39 <yrm> I have exhibited this in the MakerFaire BayArea this week, this was very populer in there.
05:29:54 <yrm> Please check this if you like, thank you.
05:30:12 <rain1> this looks great!
05:34:30 <yrm> thanks!
05:34:42 <WilhelmVonWeiner> sounds awesome
05:35:04 <WilhelmVonWeiner> Oh you're the guy from the Forth facebook page
05:35:10 <WilhelmVonWeiner> cool
05:36:13 <yrm> yes, i’ve also joined facebook group. ;)
05:36:44 <yrm> I like FORTH language.
05:37:37 <WilhelmVonWeiner> do you ever use kana for Forth words
05:38:55 <yrm> This FORTH-engine can use kana.
05:39:04 <yrm> do you like kana?
05:41:31 <WilhelmVonWeiner> I learned all my hiragana and katakana preparing for JLPT 1
05:41:44 <WilhelmVonWeiner> but school got in the way of my language learning.
05:43:47 <yrm> oh you nice
05:47:54 <WilhelmVonWeiner> What's PCN?
06:26:56 <yrm> PCN is Programming Club Network.
06:27:27 <yrm> Circle activity for kids programming.
06:50:58 * pointfree got a forthy IchigoJam computer on Friday https://twitter.com/yrm__/status/1129534208416681984
06:51:52 <WilhelmVonWeiner> that is awesome
06:58:37 <pointfree> yrm's booth was near the svfig booth (and right next to the mountain view reverse engineering booth, also a great meetup group)
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09:24:56 <rain1> https://www.nimblemachines.com/symmetric-division-considered-harmful/
09:27:15 <WilhelmVonWeiner> lol I just posted that to lobsters
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10:06:19 <Zarutian> what is symmetric division?
10:12:00 <dave0> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/publication/division-and-modulus-for-computer-scientists/
10:12:39 <dave0> i used it as a reference to implement floored division in Forth... fm/mod
10:16:36 <Zarutian> I am mostly familiar with /% from eForth. It gives back the reminder and quotent.
10:17:21 <dave0> Zarutian: it goes into it where you divide negative numbers
10:18:08 <dave0> if all your numbers are positive there's no problem, everything is the same
10:18:36 <dave0> if there's negative numbers invlolved you get different answers
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10:20:24 <Zarutian> if the dividend is negative and divisor is positive then the quotent is also negative, right?
10:20:28 <rdrop-exit> 0 preamble  Arithmetic - Division - Signed  2|3
10:20:29 <rdrop-exit> 1
10:20:29 <rdrop-exit> 2                    Truncated     Floored       Euclidean
10:20:29 <rdrop-exit> 3 dividend divisor   quot  rem     quot  rem     quot  rem
10:20:29 <rdrop-exit> 4 -------- -------   ----  ---     ----  ---     ----  ---
10:20:31 <rdrop-exit> 5    7        3       2     1       2     1       2     1   (a)
10:20:33 <rdrop-exit> 6   -7        3      -2    -1      -3     2      -3     2   (b)
10:20:36 <rdrop-exit> 7    7       -3      -2     1      -3    -2      -2     1   (c)
10:20:38 <rdrop-exit> 8   -7       -3       2    -1       2    -1       3     2   (d)
10:20:41 <rdrop-exit> 9                    ----  ---     ----  ---     ----  ---
10:20:43 <rdrop-exit> a                          (e)           (f)           (g)
10:20:46 <PoppaVic> Zarutian: yeah, same as mul - any one neg the whole is.
10:20:46 <rdrop-exit> b
10:21:18 <rdrop-exit> 2 Footnotes:
10:21:18 <rdrop-exit> 3 (a) All three are equivalent if the dividend and the divisor are
10:21:18 <rdrop-exit> 4     both positive.
10:21:18 <rdrop-exit> 5 (b) Floored and Euclidean are equivalent for positive divisors.
10:21:18 <rdrop-exit> 6 (c) Truncated and Euclidean are equivalent when the dividend is
10:21:20 <rdrop-exit> 7     positive but the divisor is negative.
10:21:20 <Zarutian> if both dividend and divsor are negative then the quotent is positive, yes?
10:21:23 <rdrop-exit> 8 (d) Truncated and Floored are equivalent when both the dividend
10:21:25 <rdrop-exit> 9     and the divisor are negative.
10:21:28 <rdrop-exit> a (e) Truncated remainder has the same sign as the dividend.
10:21:30 <rdrop-exit> b (f) Floored remainder has the same sign as the divisor.
10:21:33 <rdrop-exit> c (g) Euclidean remainder is always non-negative.
10:21:41 <PoppaVic> rdrop-exit: hey, how about codepad or something less channel-flooding-without-formatting
10:22:13 <rdrop-exit> Isn't it formatted?
10:22:33 <PoppaVic> I have no idea - it garbled the window neatly.
10:22:42 <dave0> there is code in the pdf on converting symmetric to floored or euclidean (symmetric or truncated is how most cpu's do signed division)
10:22:44 <pointfree> rdrop-exit: it worked for me
10:23:00 <rdrop-exit> If you widen your window perhaps
10:23:13 <PoppaVic> rdrop-exit: or, perhaps a link to a pastebin ;-)
10:23:51 <rdrop-exit> I've never tried pastebin, I figured at least here it makes it to the channel logs
10:24:06 <PoppaVic> so be it.
10:24:53 <Zarutian> usually I do not use any division or modulus instructions in my code, no idea on what the cycle timing is for them nor if those instructions are interruptable or not (they usually arent)
10:25:44 <dave0> <# # #> divides by base
10:26:07 <dave0> but it's not signed... i think it's um/mod
10:27:06 <Zarutian> yebb, https://www.nimblemachines.com/symmetric-division-considered-harmful/ talks about IDIV instruction from legacy x86
10:31:32 <dave0> bedtime
10:31:45 <Zarutian> sleep tight
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10:34:56 <rdrop-exit> Look ok in the log: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/forth/19.05.20
10:36:30 <rdrop-exit> Gotta hit the sack, goodnight guys
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10:36:47 <Zarutian> Given the argument that symmetric division yields “intuitive” answers <- there is no such thing as 'intuitive' anything only famliar
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10:55:06 <Zarutian> s/famliar/familiar/
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15:34:06 <dave0> hi
16:30:25 <ttmrichter> "Considered harmful" considered harmful.
16:31:54 <PoppaVic> "Settled Science"
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18:45:41 <siraben> Anyone wrote a recursive descent parser in Forth?
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19:33:05 <dave0> re
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21:34:39 <siraben> What are your views on using values vs. variables?
21:34:52 <siraben> i.e. 10 VALUE FOO vs VARIABLE FOO
21:40:27 <PoppaVic> depends on if Value is a prim or secondary, I suspect
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23:45:17 <CORDIC> siraben: IMHO obviously there should be a word "at" that results in the address as "to" results in data.  
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