00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.05.11
00:06:45 <rdrop-exit> re dave0
00:08:03 <dave0> hi rdrop-exit 
00:08:04 <dave0> sup?
00:08:57 <rdrop-exit> Revisiting very old software
00:09:14 <dave0> some of the old stuff is still good
00:10:13 <rdrop-exit> I wanted to run CPM emulation, but settled on DOS
00:10:30 <dave0> i never had the misfortune of using msdos
00:10:49 <dave0> i had an amiga
00:11:56 <rdrop-exit> Ah, I had an Apple II at home
00:13:11 <rdrop-exit> CPM at work, later DOS
00:15:34 <rdrop-exit> Also UNIX, even XENIX
00:16:58 <rdrop-exit> My main work PCs in the 80s were Kaypro and Compaq luggables
00:17:31 <rdrop-exit> then Toshibas with the amber screens
00:19:46 <dave0> i was a kid in the 80's lol
00:19:56 <dave0> it was all about video games for me :-)
00:22:05 <rdrop-exit> I mever got much into computer games, and never got into video games. I stuck to mostly to boardgames.
00:23:41 <rdrop-exit> I never even owned a video gaming system, even when my kids were growing up.
00:24:59 <rdrop-exit> The only computer games I still have are hybrid computer games with real maps, published by Simulations Canada.
00:26:52 <rdrop-exit> You entered your moves on the computer but used a paper map and either cardboard pieces or grease pencils.
00:27:11 <dave0> ehehe
00:27:18 <dave0> i played street fighter :-)
00:27:45 <rdrop-exit> Not familiar with it, but I've heard the name.
00:27:53 <dave0> the trouble with board games is i'm the eldest with 2 younger sisters... so when we play board games they gang up on me
00:28:08 <rdrop-exit> ouch :)
00:28:13 <dave0> hehehe
00:28:28 <dave0> like monopoly they would trade between eachother but not with me
00:28:48 <dave0> not fair lol
00:29:17 <rdrop-exit> I played mostly board wargames by Avalon Hill, SPI, GDW, etc...
00:30:32 <rdrop-exit> I still have a ton of them, but I haven't played any in over a year.
00:30:42 --- nick: gabc_ -> gabc
00:31:12 <dave0> are they online?
00:31:17 <dave0> everythings online these days
00:31:39 <rdrop-exit> No, they're manual games with paper maps and cardpoard pieces.
00:32:12 <dave0> cool
00:32:36 <rdrop-exit> There's a program called VASSAL that has reproductions of the maps and pieces so you can play the old games online, using skype for voice while you play.
00:33:26 <rdrop-exit> You roll electronic dice instead of real ones to resolve combat.
00:34:27 <rdrop-exit> There are still new wargames being published by the likes of MMP and GMT and a host of smaller publishers.
00:34:53 <rdrop-exit> But the golden age of the hobby was around 1977.
00:35:05 <dave0> i was born in 1977 lol
00:35:21 <rdrop-exit> Get off my lawn!
00:35:24 <rdrop-exit> ;-)
00:35:45 <dave0> ah you're old lol
00:35:55 <rdrop-exit> 1962
00:35:58 <dave0> but so am i heh
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00:43:09 <rdrop-exit> bbiab
00:44:36 <dave0> okay cya
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01:26:30 --- log: started forth/19.05.11
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01:26:30 --- topic: 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN | If you have two (or more) stacks and speak RPN then you're welcome here! | https://github.com/mark4th'
01:26:30 --- topic: set by proteusguy!~proteus-g@cm-134-196-84-89.revip18.asianet.co.th on [Sun Mar 18 08:48:16 2018]
01:26:30 --- names: list (clog jedb dave0 andrei-n rain1 vxe gabc dddddd pierpal gaze___ gravicappa travisb rdrop-exit Zarutian john_cephalopoda +proteusguy X-Scale Croran Keshl_ chunkypuffs reepca APic lchvdlch cheater the_cuckoo +KipIngram PoppaVic grewal CORDIC jn__ zy]x[yz diginet2 amuck nighty djinni dave42 pointfree ovf catern nonlinear a3f moony ullbeking pareidolia arrdem__ Rickta59 rann mstevens MrMobius phadthai WilhelmVonWeiner presiden Lord_Nightmare yunfan jhei nerfur)
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05:52:45 <Rickta59> cd ..
05:52:45 <Rickta59> ls
05:52:51 <Rickta59> doh
06:13:45 <bjorkintosh> Command 'doh' not found.
06:38:19 <rdrop-exit> :)
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07:43:24 <john_cephalopoda> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `)'
07:45:32 <rdrop-exit> bah humbug :)
07:48:05 <john_cephalopoda> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `)'
07:48:09 <john_cephalopoda> :þ
07:48:19 <john_cephalopoda> bash: $':\376': command not found
07:48:28 <john_cephalopoda> Ok, enough :D
07:48:38 <rdrop-exit> :D
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09:43:14 <pointfree> Rickta59: I did a code review http://ix.io/1IJp of https://raw.githubusercontent.com/RickKimball/mecrisp-stellaris/nucelo-f030r8/mecrisp-stellaris-source/stm32f030r8-ra/mhz.fs
09:44:08 <Rickta59> thanks i'll take a look pointfree 
09:44:12 <pointfree> ...keep in mind I don't know how this code will be used by another application.
09:44:49 <Rickta59> i basically did it to learn some forth code
09:48:59 <Rickta59> 24MHz clock .. so if i want to use the hsi vs the hsebyp vs hse ? 
09:49:19 <Rickta59> 24MHz hsiclock, hsebypassclock?
09:49:36 <Rickta59> this is just a subset of the available options
09:49:46 <Rickta59> or 24MHz hsi clock 
10:01:05 <pointfree> Maybe something like `24MHz hsi clock` ` 24MHz hse byp clock` `24MHz hse clock` ...and maybe before any of those you could set an initial default so that `24MHz clock` would work.
10:03:28 <Rickta59> so the fact that hsi must happen only in a specific context doesn't really mean anything in forth?
10:03:32 <Rickta59> just the readabilty?
10:07:29 <pointfree> Well if you're only using it in one context you don't need to get any more specific.
10:10:54 <pointfree> You do have an editor, just use that once, instead of computing the same thing many times at runtime.
10:12:00 <pointfree> You can add words to specify, should ambiguity arise later on.
10:14:54 <Rickta59> k thanks for the input
10:21:49 <pointfree> With forth being interactively compiled and thus using compilation during normal operation, there isn't generally redundant code elimination when interacting with the system because that would slow down the system. Therefore it helps to keep things concise at edit time as we can't just shift complexity to the compiler. Just my $0.02.
10:23:26 <pointfree> although mecrisp-ra is special in that it does some optimization.
10:27:19 <Rickta59> when i was doing the lshift thing i was hoping the mecrisp would do the constant folding
10:28:11 <Rickta59> and using it on a cortex-m0 .. it has to go through gyrations to load 32 bit constants anways
10:29:16 <pointfree> Rickta59: Hmm good point. I forgot about mecrisp constant folding.
10:31:38 <pointfree> ...and depending on the forth, `1 4 lshift` could be compiled as mov instead of an ldr.
10:32:43 <Rickta59> i'm only using mecrisp-stellaris/mecrips
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16:52:29 <PoppaVic> A Good Day: you come home from work to read the forums and laugh at the news, while the tail-end of Dr. Strangelove plays out on TCM ;-)
17:15:45 <rdrop-exit> A classic
17:16:20 <rdrop-exit> Good morning Forthers
17:16:22 <PoppaVic> yeah, it'll never "get old". Although, I doubt the New Generation has ever seen it
17:20:51 <rdrop-exit> My kids watched many classic movies with me, especially my eldest who went to film school.
17:21:15 <PoppaVic> ah
17:21:45 <rdrop-exit> The cold war is difficult to grok unless you lived through it.
17:22:01 <PoppaVic> Yeah.. We used to get like 2-channels during the summer out in the woods.. Usedto catch a PILE of ancient Tarzans, Wsterns, Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers.
17:22:33 <PoppaVic> rdrop-exit: I don't think it's difficult to grok at all - I just think people can't think, let alone empathize anymore
17:23:39 <PoppaVic> (amusingly, we have been in a cold-war for years with much of the world, just that no one wants to admit it ;-)
17:24:26 <rdrop-exit> As a kid I'd go to Straw Hat pizza just to watch the serials. They used to project old serials.
17:24:32 <Zarutian> you mean the world is shunning the USA? Yeah and peeps there wonder why
17:24:47 <PoppaVic> rdrop-exit: that sounds wunnerful ;-)
17:25:10 <PoppaVic> Zarutian: shunning? Cool.. I never noticed. Hows that workin' out for y'all?
17:26:55 <Zarutian> sorry, shunning the USA goverment. Hard to shun quite a large part of a continent
17:27:19 <PoppaVic> shun away. Doesn't bother me at all.
17:27:47 <rdrop-exit> Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.
17:27:52 <Zarutian> I am just betting on when that Trumpster pops
17:27:55 <PoppaVic> rdrop-exit: Just SO.
17:28:03 <rdrop-exit> Uh, I mean the "Forth Room"
17:28:27 <PoppaVic> such a wonderful movie ;-)
17:28:37 <Zarutian> the "Whileth Room" is probably down the hall
17:29:21 <PoppaVic> ..inventorying the survival supplies up in the cockpit.. ;->
17:29:46 <PoppaVic> Slim Pickens was a class act in everything ;-)
17:29:58 <rdrop-exit> So funny
17:30:15 <Zarutian> shame that Muonic Low Orbit relativistic fission inductment cannons made nukes pointless in 2030
17:31:02 <Zarutian> such a beam passes harmlessly through most matter that doesnt have that absurdly high atomic weight
17:32:51 <Zarutian> shortens the halflife of newkoolar waste from thousands of years down to few minutes
17:34:38 <rdrop-exit>  aligned Round up to a multiple of the given power-of-2, i.e.
17:34:38 <rdrop-exit>          align to the given power-of-2.
17:34:51 <rdrop-exit>  : aligned ( u pwr -- u' ) `1- mask or 1+ ;inline
17:41:22 <rdrop-exit>  mpn  Most positive 2's complement number.
17:41:22 <rdrop-exit>  mnn  Most negative 2's complement number.
17:41:33 <rdrop-exit>  -1 u2/  constant mpn ( -- +n ) \ also |mnn not|, |mnn 1-|
17:41:33 <rdrop-exit>  1 ror   constant mnn ( -- -n ) \ also |mpn not|, |mpn 1+|
17:43:21 <rdrop-exit>  sgn  Integer signum function.
17:43:32 <rdrop-exit>  : sgn ( n -- -1|0|1 ) dup 0<  swap 0> - ;inline
17:45:21 <rdrop-exit> Need my second cup of coffee brb
17:48:19 <rdrop-exit>  pwr?    Is <u> a power-of-2?
17:48:30 <rdrop-exit>  : pwr? ( u -- -1|0 ) reset-low-1 0= ;inline
17:48:30 <rdrop-exit>    \ also |hw 1 =| |hw 1- 0=|
17:52:50 <rdrop-exit>  #bits     Number of significant bits of <u>.
17:53:00 <rdrop-exit>  : #bits ( u -- # ) |log2 1+  1 umax ;inline
17:54:30 <rdrop-exit>  #bytes    Number of significant bytes of <u>.
17:54:42 <rdrop-exit>  : #bytes ( u -- # ) |log2 3 arshift 1+  1 umax ;inline
17:54:56 <rdrop-exit>  #decimals Number of significant decimal digits of <u>.
17:55:07 <rdrop-exit>  : #decimals ( u -- # ) |lg 1+  1 umax ;inline
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17:56:47 <dave0> hi
17:56:59 <rdrop-exit> Hi dave0 :)
17:57:18 <dave0> hi rdrop-exit :-)
18:07:43 <rdrop-exit> "1+ 1 umax" seems improvable
18:08:33 <rdrop-exit> maybe "0> and 1+"?
18:10:24 <rdrop-exit> "dup 0> and 1+"
18:11:07 <rdrop-exit> meh
18:11:59 <dave0> rdrop-exit: yep, i think   0> and 1+   would work
18:15:10 <rdrop-exit> Thanks, I shouldn't be tinker with it until I'm coffee'd up
18:20:15 <rdrop-exit> Could name "dup 0> and" as |0
18:21:14 <rdrop-exit> since the floor is 0
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18:23:08 <rdrop-exit>  : |0 ( -n|n -- 0|n ) dup 0> and ;inline
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18:24:08 <rdrop-exit>  : #bits ( u -- # ) |log2 |0 1+ ;inline
18:24:22 <rdrop-exit>  : #bytes ( u -- # ) |log2  3 arshift  |0 1+ ;inline
18:24:35 <rdrop-exit>  : #decimals ( u -- # ) |lg |0 1+ ;inline
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18:31:10 <rdrop-exit> So that means I can now change #bytes to an unsigned shift:
18:31:14 <rdrop-exit>  : #bytes ( u -- # ) |log2 |0  3 rshift  1+ ;inline
18:33:54 <rdrop-exit> Anyway that's enough useless tinkering for one day :)
18:35:40 <rdrop-exit> I probably broke something
18:37:13 <dave0> i like <# # #s #> for formatting numbers
18:37:28 <dave0> formatted output is so different for every language:-)
18:38:26 <rdrop-exit> It reminds me of Cobol
18:38:48 <dave0> never tried it
18:39:30 <rdrop-exit> I learned Cobol, but thankfully never had to use it professionaly
18:40:10 <rdrop-exit> The pictured output was probably the only thing I liked about Cobol
18:40:28 <dave0> i will google it!
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18:41:44 <rdrop-exit> IIRC Cobol called it pictured numeric output or some such
18:44:37 <dave0> ah ok
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18:50:42 <dave0> i found this http://www.pgrocer.net/Cis12/cobol3.html
18:53:19 <rdrop-exit> There you go, I imagine Chuck got his inspiration from there for Forth's number output formatting
18:56:58 <dave0> it's pretty cool
18:57:16 <dave0> what you write resembles how it looks
18:57:29 <dave0> not like that in c, you have to count character positions
19:00:50 <rdrop-exit> Right, IIRC most other business oriented languages adopted a similar "pictured" approach, RPG, dbase, etc...
19:02:02 <rdrop-exit> The original I assume was Cobol
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19:17:41 <dave0> hi KipIngram :-)
19:17:47 <KipIngram> Hi dave0.
19:17:52 <KipIngram> Server's being mean to me.
19:20:03 <rdrop-exit> Hi KipIngram
19:23:24 <KipIngram> Hey rdrop-exit.
19:23:26 <KipIngram> how goes?
19:24:14 <rdrop-exit> Waking up slowly, Sunday morning
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19:29:03 <rdrop-exit> brb
19:29:15 <KipIngram> Saturday night here.
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20:11:14 <rdrop-exit> 1
20:11:15 <rdrop-exit> 2 |pwr    Floor power-of-2, round <u> to down to closest power of
20:11:15 <rdrop-exit> 3         2 <= <u>.
20:11:15 <rdrop-exit> 4
20:11:15 <rdrop-exit> 5 pwr|    Ceiling power-of-2, round <u> up to the closest power of
20:11:17 <rdrop-exit> 6         2 >= <u>.
20:11:19 <rdrop-exit> 7
20:11:29 <rdrop-exit> 0 source  Arithmetic - Powers of 2 - Basics
20:11:29 <rdrop-exit> 1
20:11:30 <rdrop-exit> 2 : |pwr ( u -- u' ) |log2 2** ;inline
20:11:30 <rdrop-exit> 3
20:11:31 <rdrop-exit> 4 : pwr| ( u -- u' ) log2| 2** ;inline
20:11:34 <rdrop-exit> 5
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20:14:26 <rdrop-exit> Just filling the silence :)
20:17:10 <cheater> :)
20:17:47 <rdrop-exit> Hi cheater :)
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20:19:24 <cheater> hiya :)
20:24:16 <rdrop-exit> b
20:24:16 <rdrop-exit> c reverse Reverse bytes in cell (i.e. reverse endianess).
20:24:16 <rdrop-exit> d
20:24:26 <rdrop-exit> b
20:24:27 <rdrop-exit> c : reverse ( x -- x' )
20:24:27 <rdrop-exit> d   8 rolx  dup 16 rorx  $ ff00ff00ff00ff00 mux ;
20:24:27 <rdrop-exit> e
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20:38:02 <rdrop-exit> Catch you all later, keep on Forthin' :)
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22:58:07 <dave0> re
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