00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.04.14
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02:06:16 <WilhelmVonWeiner> invert is a bitwise not
02:06:21 <WilhelmVonWeiner> not is a logical not
02:07:11 <WilhelmVonWeiner> I think seeing `not` as a bitwise invert is just a programmer bias
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02:31:10 <dave0> i did: not is a bitwise not   =0 is a logical not    invert is removed
02:32:02 <presiden> depends on how you define the logical data
02:32:26 <dave0> "not" is way more common than "invert"
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02:45:37 <rdrop-exit> IMHO NOT is a bitwise operator, just like AND OR XOR etc...
02:46:13 <rdrop-exit> It can be used as a logical operator if you feed it a well-formed flag, i.e. -1 or 0
02:46:47 <rdrop-exit> As can AND OR etc... if you feed them well-formed flags
02:48:05 <rdrop-exit> To convert an arbitrary value to a well-formed flag we also have 0= and 0<>
02:53:36 <rdrop-exit> INVERT is just an awkward ANS Forth compromise
02:54:43 <WilhelmVonWeiner> ofc invert and not should've been swapped
02:55:19 <WilhelmVonWeiner> "invert the boolean truth value" is a valid statement
02:55:25 <WilhelmVonWeiner> but yeah, 0=
02:57:10 <rdrop-exit> Don't need INVERT, I don't think of 0= as inverting a truth value, I think of 0= and 0<> as converting arbitrary values to well-formed flags
03:00:09 <rdrop-exit> i.e. 5 is not a truth value, but -1 and 0 are because they are well-formed flags
03:03:19 <rdrop-exit> AND, OR, XOR, NOT can be used as both your bitwise and your logical operators.
03:03:55 <rdrop-exit> With arbitray input they're bitwise, with well-formed flags they're "logical"
03:04:47 <rdrop-exit> Avoids the ^ | & ~ && || ! situation of C
03:05:58 <rdrop-exit> Notice that C has a bitwise XOR but no logical XOR.
03:10:24 <rdrop-exit> In Forth when you create a new bitwise operator, you're automatically getting its logical counterpart for free.
03:12:11 <rdrop-exit> e.g. : nand and not ;
03:12:48 <rdrop-exit> : eqv xor not ; \ aka xnor
03:14:52 <rdrop-exit> : cor ( x1 x2 -- ~x1|x2 ) swap not or ; \ aka logical implication
03:16:52 <rdrop-exit> COR above is both a bitwise complement-then-or operation aka IMP and can be used as a logical implication operator
03:18:39 <rdrop-exit> That's something that Forth-83 did right, switching to -1 and 0 as the well-formed flags.
03:19:52 <rdrop-exit> SWMBO is calling, gotta go :)
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09:34:11 <pointfree> https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/70454/can-memristors-change-programming-paradigms-in-what-way
09:34:11 <pointfree> How might the use of memristance (e.g. memristors, memcapacitors, meminductors, memdiodes, etc) througout circuits change the design of a forth system?
09:34:11 <pointfree> I'm not sure memristors can be called a fundamental passive components alongside resistors, capacitors, inductors, transformers, and gyrators but that doesn't make them any less interesting.
09:34:11 <pointfree> https://twitter.com/lowfatcomputing/status/1116817239397658624 <-- build a memristive circuit out of other passive components.
09:34:11 <pointfree> Zarutian: afaik STT-MRAM is a form of memristive memory https://www.memristor.org/reference/295/types-of-memristors
09:57:17 <pointfree> A forth running on a memristive circuit could do away with explicit @ and !
09:57:17 <pointfree> That could shift the balance of power away from highly integrated cpus.
09:57:17 <pointfree> Event driven triggers could run for years without polling by accruing a memristance from a slow trickle. 
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19:52:41 <rdrop-exit> Greetings Forthlings :)
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21:32:10 <presiden> greeting
21:33:06 <rdrop-exit> Hi presiden
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