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06:51:23 <Kumool> its just a bunch of within functions
06:51:30 <Kumool> wrappers/words
06:52:10 <Kumool> wait, what could :ascii? do?
06:53:19 <Kumool> : ascii? 0 177 within ; ?
07:07:46 <WilhelmVonWeiner> 177?
07:07:54 <WilhelmVonWeiner> ascii is 128 isn't it?
07:08:03 <WilhelmVonWeiner> : ascii? 128 < ;
07:20:05 <Kumool> WilhelmVonWeiner: https://qbin.io/tall-nor-hauh
07:20:07 <Kumool> it does start in space, but that would ignore \r\n\t which gets used
07:20:09 <Kumool> so ascii? seems a bit more complicated than a within
07:20:51 <zy]x[yz> 177 is 127 in octal
07:21:27 <Kumool> woops
07:21:31 <WilhelmVonWeiner> well thata wasn't ascii, that was display
07:21:46 <WilhelmVonWeiner> and carriage returns aren't visible characters
07:22:16 <Kumool> but they are a part of text on a string
07:22:46 <WilhelmVonWeiner> they're control characters
07:23:19 <WilhelmVonWeiner> if they're valid, then why isn't \b valid 
07:24:28 <Kumool> I haven't seen \b on a text file
07:25:02 <WilhelmVonWeiner> you can though, `echo -e "eggd\bs"`
07:25:40 <Kumool> that's not a text file
07:25:56 <WilhelmVonWeiner> well it could be in a text file
07:28:06 <Kumool> how could it be in a text file though? adding a backspace character defeats the purpose of saving the character in the file itself
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07:28:38 <dave0> in unix you can use backspace as a kind of over-strike
07:28:56 <dave0> a <bs> a    makes bold and   a <bs> _    makes underline
07:31:23 <Kumool> to the character before it or until it finds an ending <bs> ?
07:31:39 <WilhelmVonWeiner> I would assume the former 
07:32:38 <dave0> Kumool: just the previous character
07:33:33 <Kumool> alright
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07:35:30 <Kumool> idk, \n seems to me not a display character, if \n was a display character then space is also a display character
07:36:34 <zy]x[yz> is there a distinction between display characters and non-whitespace?
07:36:54 <WilhelmVonWeiner> space is actually printed I guess
07:37:09 <zy]x[yz> so are tabs and newlines
07:37:09 <WilhelmVonWeiner> \n moves the cursor
07:37:12 <zy]x[yz> right
07:37:37 <WilhelmVonWeiner> tabs aren't printed in the same way a space is
07:37:49 <WilhelmVonWeiner> a tab moves the cursor to the next tabstop
07:38:06 <zy]x[yz> and space moves the cursor to the next column.  what's the difference?
07:39:38 <WilhelmVonWeiner> space prints an empty character
07:41:02 <WilhelmVonWeiner> moving one column isn't a control character, it's default behaviour
07:41:54 <zy]x[yz> so how is tab different from a newline?
07:42:56 <WilhelmVonWeiner> tab isn't, it's a control character telling the display to move the cursor to the next tab stop
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07:48:51 <rdrop-exit> Control characters are generally considered to consist of hex 00-1f, and 7f
07:49:13 <dave0> this is interesting to do with identifying text files: https://github.com/madler/zlib/blob/master/doc/txtvsbin.txt
07:51:00 <rdrop-exit> Display characters in DEC terminology are those that have a displayed directly, i.e. space through ~
07:51:35 <rdrop-exit> Graphical characters omit the space
07:52:07 <rdrop-exit> * those that are displayed directly
07:54:41 <rdrop-exit> In "caret notation" the control characters are represented by ^@ .. ^_ and ^?
07:58:10 <rdrop-exit> Each ASCII control character also has an abbreviation, e.g. del, nul, soh, sub, esc...
08:00:37 <rdrop-exit> Some also have defacto standard names such as dc1 being used as xon, and dc3 as xoff for software flow control.
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08:06:36 <rdrop-exit> The ASCII abbreviation for space is SP, but Forth uses BL instead presumably to avoid confusion with the stack pointer
08:07:56 <rdrop-exit> The ASCII abbreviation for a carriage return is CR, whil Forths typically use CR as a word that emits a carriage return and/or line feed.
08:09:51 <rdrop-exit> I prefer to use the name NL instead for the newline function, and I use CR the way the ASCII standard does, as the abbreviation for hex 0d aka control M.
08:25:43 <rdrop-exit> To answer Kumol's questions, control characters are a form of inband signaling, while display characters are directly displayed.
08:39:24 <rdrop-exit> ASCII doesn't care about files.
08:44:11 <rdrop-exit> It just standardizes an interpretation of 7-bit values.
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09:57:32 <Zarutian> rdrop-exit: then unicode (and utf-8) comes along and supersets ASCII
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12:15:29 <rdrop-exit> I stopped reading the Unicode mailing list when Emoji lobbying took center stage. What a circus.
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15:57:15 <dave0> hi
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18:36:22 <dave0> re
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19:52:36 <rdrop-exit> Good morning Forthwrights :)
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19:57:45 <tabemann> hey guys
19:57:57 <rdrop-exit> Hi tabemann
19:58:20 <rdrop-exit> c[_]~~
20:01:31 <tabemann> what's that?
20:02:45 <rdrop-exit> Coffee
20:04:23 * tabemann is resisting the urge to write in german
20:06:36 <tabemann> dammit hashforth is too slow to start up
20:07:03 <tabemann> even when I remove all the debugging features it still takes a few seconds before "ready" is displayed
20:07:57 <rdrop-exit> =8-O
20:10:34 <rdrop-exit> What's it doing?
20:13:00 <tabemann> it's executing and compiling a bunch of source files built into the image
20:13:22 <tabemann> they're built into the image but they're not compiled at the time the image is created
20:13:50 <tabemann> stuff for building up a usable forth system, such as code for multitasking, IO, and the line editor
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20:35:13 <rdrop-exit> Precompile what you know you're going to need.
20:43:20 <dave0> tabemann: have you written something to profile it? it might be interesting to write
22:01:21 <rdrop-exit> Redesigned my streaming loop construct this morning, 
22:01:32 <rdrop-exit> stream ... onward
22:01:39 <rdrop-exit> ?stream ... onward
22:04:34 <ttmrichter> Streaming loop?
22:05:54 <rdrop-exit> A streaming loop is a variant of a do-loop for use with streaming operators such as @+
22:06:56 <rdrop-exit> i.e. @+ ( a -- a' x )
22:07:18 <rdrop-exit> or b@+ ( a -- a+1 b )
22:08:27 <rdrop-exit> Since a streaming operator is auto-incrementing, there's no need to keep an index on the return stack, just the limit
22:12:49 <rdrop-exit> onward loops back until the TOS reaches limit
22:13:05 <rdrop-exit> bbiab
22:28:15 <rdrop-exit> The runtime action of ?stream is ( x lim -- x| )( r: -- {lim ip}| )
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22:28:51 <rdrop-exit> That of onwards is ( x -- x| )( r: lim a -- {lim a}| )
22:32:47 <rdrop-exit> A typical streaming loop would be:
22:33:26 <rdrop-exit> <start> <limit> ?STREAM  @+ <do something with TOS>  ONWARD
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23:37:16 <rdrop-exit> bbiab
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/19.04.10