00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.04.07 00:58:22 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h109-187-18-29.dyn.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 01:10:13 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 02:02:55 hi presiden 02:03:29 --- quit: ashirase (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 02:06:59 --- join: ashirase (~ashirase@modemcable098.166-22-96.mc.videotron.ca) joined #forth 04:03:08 --- quit: smokeink (Remote host closed the connection) 05:34:11 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 05:34:27 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host197-221-static.34-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 06:12:25 --- quit: pierpal (Remote host closed the connection) 06:15:15 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host197-221-static.34-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 06:25:42 --- quit: pierpal (Remote host closed the connection) 06:28:54 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host197-221-static.34-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 07:31:29 My copy of "Front Panel" came. I thumbed through it - what I saw at first glance was a bunch of general OO stuff. I hope there's some brass tacks stuff in their as well. 09:06:13 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 09:06:31 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host197-221-static.34-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 09:15:53 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 09:35:55 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 12:05:29 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:22:27 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h109-187-18-29.dyn.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 12:34:59 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 14:03:29 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:55:46 --- join: tabemann (~tabemann@24.196.100.126) joined #forth 15:15:00 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 15:19:40 --- quit: Croran (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 15:20:54 --- join: Croran (~quassel@2601:601:1801:6dde:a024:a39a:633c:7ee8) joined #forth 16:36:42 --- quit: john_cephalopoda (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 16:49:53 --- join: john_cephalopoda (~john@unaffiliated/john-cephalopoda/x-6407167) joined #forth 17:01:35 --- join: tabemann (~tabemann@rrcs-162-155-170-75.central.biz.rr.com) joined #forth 17:17:38 I've heard that Sun's firmware was Forth-based. Are there any projects out there to make a Forth-based firmware for modern platforms? 17:29:19 open firmware 17:29:50 Croran: https://www.openfirmware.info/Welcome_to_OpenBIOS 17:45:37 hey guys 18:07:13 --- quit: dddddd (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 18:41:49 --- join: rdrop-exit (~markwilli@112.201.169.15) joined #forth 18:45:12 Hola Fortheros c[_] 18:51:33 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 18:53:52 --- join: dave0 (~dave0@108.060.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 18:54:37 hey rdrop-exit, dddddd, dave0 19:00:07 Hi tabemann 19:00:34 well, I've got my line editor working... until you actually try to enter the line, where then it crashes 19:00:41 Interesting. It looks like the google "Pixel C" convertible supports coreboot and should support OpenBIOS. 19:00:46 ouch 19:01:56 Never heard of Pixel C before 19:02:50 I'm thinking of getting a Gemini PDA, it's like a modern take on my old Psion 19:03:52 I sold my soul to the gods of Google and Samsung and bought a Samsung J7 19:04:22 hi tabemann 19:05:21 Gemini looks interesting. Neat that Linux is making a comeback on phones. 19:05:29 tabemann: perhaps you should make a sandboxed version of your VM for testing purposes 19:05:56 I'm hoping someone will attempt NetBSD on a Gemini 19:06:11 like one that doesn't segfault whenever anything goes wrong but provides a real debugging environment? 19:07:19 One that checks that all memory accesses 19:08:52 that should be doable 19:21:58 The Gemini was designed by the same guy as the Psion 19:22:12 The keyboards are very similar 19:22:24 looks like a nice keyboard, for the size. 19:24:48 I really liked the Psion 5 keyboard, haven't used mine in well over a decade though 19:29:23 back 19:29:30 wb 19:29:37 well, it doesn't crash anymore 19:31:01 rdrop-exit: isnt that size were tiny for your white guys :D 19:32:03 It is, but I'm plodding typist no matter what size keyboard I use 19:32:36 I dayly driver is a Vortex Pok3r with Cherry greens 19:33:10 just a sec, I'll find a pic 19:33:29 i used to buy a GPD win , which's keyboard made me imconvinient 19:33:41 https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/7li68b/cooper_approves_of_my_first_60/ 19:33:45 so just re-sell it after the second day 19:34:28 actually why not someone made blackberry keyboard? even us chinese 19:37:16 I'm really happy with the Pok3r, I changed the CapsLock to control and converted my Forth to the Wordstar diamond 19:39:37 * tabemann made his control key into a compose key 19:39:43 s/control/caps lock 19:40:31 i made it so when you press shift, caps lock automatically turns off 19:40:53 all keyboards should have a compose key 19:40:54 I hate the behavior on many systems where caps lock inverts hift 19:41:03 *shift 19:42:47 On old keyboards the Control key was where the CapsLock is now, not sure why it was moved. 19:43:31 I never use CapsLock anyway 19:44:22 it was moved by Apple 19:44:24 seriously 19:44:58 Really, can't recall, too many cobwebs in my memory 19:46:19 Last night I replaced reprogrammed the Pok3r's Esc key to ~` and replaced the keycap 19:47:43 That's was the only remaining thing I disliked about the Pok3r, the combined Esc/`~ key 19:48:15 Sorry about the typos, not yet fully coffee'd up 19:50:12 I thought about getting a Vortex Core 40% keyboard, but I don't think it would be comfortable for Forth because of the heavy use of special charactes 19:50:18 * characters 19:53:11 yeah, it'd be a pain to program in forth on such a keyboard 19:54:31 At some point I'd like to try an ortholinear keyboard like the Preonic 19:59:25 okay, the coffee shop is closing - will be back on in a bit 19:59:27 Switching to a 60% keyboard + a wireless trackball freed up a lot of space on my desk. 20:03:50 bbiab 20:05:14 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 20:22:44 I'm really happy with the tenkeyless form factor (I think 60%?). Puts the mouse in a much more natural position. 20:41:33 --- join: tabemann (~tabemann@2600:1700:7990:24e0:e9cf:9aca:5cdd:e5ee) joined #forth 20:42:04 A 60% does away with the tenkey and the function keys, brings the total number of keys down to 61 or thereabouts. 20:43:10 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 20:45:36 The Vortex Pok3r is a popular 60%. There are also 40% such as the Vortex Core (47 keys). There are even 30% keyboards =8-O 20:47:46 For Forth use I think a 60% is the sweet spot. 20:48:08 I'm too used to as a touch-typist being able to enter numbers without having to do Fn-key combos for them 20:48:34 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h109-187-18-29.dyn.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 20:50:11 Here's a review of the Pok3r: https://youtu.be/8wjW-Or1jg8 21:00:13 the Pok3r seems like it'd work for me, if it weren't for the fact that my main computer these days is a laptop that I bring around with me, and I'd have another item to drag around too 21:04:00 I hear you, I no longer use laptops, hence my interest in the Gemini PDA as an alternative for trips. 21:04:45 on another note - woot! my line editor works! 21:05:02 Excellent 21:05:11 brb 21:05:15 now I'm wondering whether I should have it built into the image or not 21:05:37 because currently it's not part of the image - you have to manually load it every time you want it 21:12:29 Do you have a word that saves the current image? 21:14:06 I use SAVE for that 21:22:30 no, I do not 21:23:00 the images currently are a load-only thing 21:28:41 this is because, as it stands, there is no guarantee as to what address in memory the image will be loaded, along with the fact that ALLOCATE is implemented 21:29:19 You could have it autoload a block at boot time 21:29:24 because there is no guarantee as to what ddress the image will be loaded at, addresses saved into memory might be wrong if an image were saved and then reloaded 21:29:53 there exists a relocation mechanism for images, but this is a one-way process 21:31:47 I thought your VM images were platform neutral 21:34:41 Like a Java file 21:34:48 they are 21:35:02 the problem is that at execution time, the program may save addresses into the user space 21:35:17 and if you save an image, and reload it, those addresses may no longer be valid 21:36:38 relocation at load-time works because all the addresses in the code portions of the image are relative to the start of where the image is loaded, and because they're in the code only, the relocator will be able to detect them and relocate them 21:37:23 I could make it so that all address references are relative to an implict base address 21:37:49 e.g. 0 21:37:50 but the problem with that is that I want on embedded systems forth code being able to directly address hardware registers 21:39:49 Hardware registers are not necessarily memory mapped, and even if they are it may be in a separate IO address space 21:42:30 not just hardware registers per se (which, yes, could be accessed via specialized IO instructions rather than being memory-mapped), but also stuff like flash memory and like as well 21:42:31 (e.g. in and out instructions to IO port addresses) 21:43:43 I should get to bed soon 21:44:14 sweet dreams 21:45:05 g'night 21:55:35 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 23:36:29 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@mx-ll-14.207.170-46.dynamic.3bb.co.th) joined #forth 23:36:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/19.04.07