00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.02.12 00:26:32 --- nick: TheCephalopod -> john_cephalopoda 00:29:03 --- join: xek_ (~xek@apn-31-0-23-82.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl) joined #forth 00:53:37 --- quit: cantstanya (Remote host closed the connection) 00:56:05 --- join: cantstanya (~chatting@gateway/tor-sasl/cantstanya) joined #forth 01:03:22 good morning forthniter 01:09:26 Hey presiden 01:28:57 o/ 01:35:27 --- join: dave0 (~dave0@193.060.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 02:02:55 --- quit: ashirase (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 02:07:03 --- join: ashirase (~ashirase@modemcable098.166-22-96.mc.videotron.ca) joined #forth 02:33:18 --- quit: Croran (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 02:42:10 --- join: Croran (~quassel@2601:601:1801:6dde::4276) joined #forth 02:57:21 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 03:56:16 --- quit: pierpal (Remote host closed the connection) 04:22:57 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 05:12:55 PoppaVic just shared this with me; he may have posted it here (or gotten it here), but I don't see it in my scrollback. If it's a repeat, my apologies: 05:12:59 https://github.com/seanpringle/reforth 05:13:08 I like a number of that guy's ideas. 05:13:48 Very nice improvements in the "intelligence and tidiness" of the control structure words. 05:25:48 I'm not sure why I never thought of replacing AGAIN, UNTIL, REPEAT, etc. etc. etc. with a single word that was smart about what code was passed to it from the beginning of the loop. 05:27:24 And it's nice to see regular expression support - that's definitely something I've planned to put in mine. 05:55:42 KipIngram, that is some interesting stuff. Subwords are cool. I might even be able to be talked into those fixed locals. 06:10:33 Afternoon Forth gang 06:12:10 always wondered why then/leave/etc were different words 06:13:16 I don't like subwords 06:16:02 I also like the two registers. 06:16:56 But the subword thing is annoying. Objects suck, and instead of just defining words that imitate namespacing the parser implements it? smells like bloaty bloat 06:17:57 thanks for sharing kip 06:27:53 why subword? 06:29:50 --- join: [1]MrMobius (~default@c-73-134-82-217.hsd1.va.comcast.net) joined #forth 06:33:19 --- quit: MrMobius (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 06:33:19 --- nick: [1]MrMobius -> MrMobius 06:44:11 don't ask me 06:45:43 I don't see the advantage in `: grease : slurp ( slurp grease) ; ; grease:slurp` over `: grease:slurp ( slurp grease)` 06:50:47 the main point appears to be avoiding namespace pollution with factors you don't want to leave exposed. 06:54:07 proteusguy: Yes, I thought he had some quite interesting thoughts. I won't do the subwords, because I'm already using nested colons in a different way (just as labels or additional entry points). But his system looks pretty well thought out. 06:54:15 Thanks go to PoppaVic - he's the one that found it. 06:55:28 WilhelmVonWeiner: I use {{ ---reveal--- }} to accomplish basically the same thing, but with a little more flexibility 06:57:08 I use them true, now you mention it 06:57:39 hm 07:04:49 so I was thinking about how instead of a linked list dictionary one could instead use an associative array 07:06:21 if you have the memory, of course 07:15:15 I've done that in the past, but found linked lists to be more flexible 07:16:06 did you allocate a block of memory and just fill it with hashes 07:17:07 WilhelmVonWeiner: I dislike the idea of embedding factors into the word using them. Needing to jump around them feels messy, and it makes disassembly a bit more messy. My way keeps them separate, just relinking the dictionary to hide the headers. 07:18:02 Yes, a block of memory with hashes, xt, and pointer to the actual name 07:18:32 (specifically, two blocks, one for IMMEDIATE words and one for normal ones) 07:22:28 (this was back when I was using a cmforth style dictionary, so around retro7 and early retro8) 07:25:30 `Mike Perry relates a story about Chuck's CAD system which ran 07:25:30 on the board whose design it had been written for. Chuck 07:25:30 showed Mike that he had written the core of the CAD application 07:25:30 in about five lines of code. When Mike asked him how long it 07:25:32 had taken, he replied, "Oh, about two years."` 07:26:07 that's basically a programming zen quote lisp-types love 07:28:11 --- quit: Zarutian (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07:28:41 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@173-133-17-89.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 07:30:51 I can open a file under Linux with open(), which is one line. The code behind it has been growing for over 20 years though. 07:34:59 well, that's growing for 20 years. 07:35:48 It took Chuck "about two years" to write the most eloquent, correct, factored implementation he needed 07:36:21 I assume tit was two years of thinking, and a handful of that actually writing code 07:36:41 in fact, way less than a handful 07:36:41 never assume tits 07:37:55 you sound like my missus 08:05:57 WilhelmVonWeiner: I don't really see the point. Writing a CAD program in 2 years and having 5 lines in the main() function is not that much of a big deal. 08:23:54 i'm with john_cephalopoda on this one 08:27:01 I think the key thought here is that you can slap code out pretty fast when you need to, but to achieve what one could argue is the "best" solution to a complex problem is HARD and takes TIME. 08:27:30 It requires really "becoming one with the problem," so to speak. 08:28:18 Modern management will rarely allow you the time to do it that way, so we generally get "not the greatest" code. 08:29:03 If you want to make a proper product, you gotta spend a lot of time on architecture. That holds true for all programming languages. 08:29:31 #7 https://paultiseo.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/top-13-funny-software-development-quotes/ 08:29:42 --- quit: whisky (Quit: WeeChat 2.3) 08:32:20 "LSD and UNIX" - so basically "LSD and BSD"? :D 08:37:08 john_cephalopoda: you're missing the point entirely 08:37:17 it's not that he's only written 5 lines 08:37:31 he's written only 5 lines. 08:39:16 PoppaVic: I loled at #10 09:11:47 WilhelmVonWeiner: Those 5 lines were his core program. But what does "core program" mean, except for "main routine", which is not longer than 5 lines in many programs. 09:13:55 yeah, chuck's proud of a 5 line "initialisation" main routine 09:14:38 someone thought "SDL_Init(SDL_VIDEO_INIT)" but in Forth was so cool they wrote up chuck saying it took 2 years to come up with it 09:36:26 --- quit: Zarutian (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:36:51 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@173-133-17-89.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:39:39 --- quit: nighty- (Remote host closed the connection) 10:02:50 --- join: Ambler (~Ambler@static-71-123-55-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 10:48:09 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:02:34 --- join: jedb_ (~jedb@199.66.90.113) joined #forth 11:03:57 --- join: corecode_ (~2@2a01:4f8:190:53f3::2c) joined #forth 11:04:27 --- join: lonjil2 (~quassel@2a02:418:6050:ed15:ed15:ed15:e741:32d6) joined #forth 11:04:28 --- join: bluekelp_ (~bluekelp@bluekelp.com) joined #forth 11:04:36 --- join: yunfan_ (~roooot@45.32.53.133) joined #forth 11:04:58 --- quit: probablymoony (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:04:58 --- quit: ecraven (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:04:58 --- quit: presiden (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:04:58 --- quit: bluekelp (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:04:58 --- quit: APic (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:04:58 --- quit: rain1 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:04:58 --- quit: yunfan (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:04:59 --- quit: corecode (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:04:59 --- quit: lonjil (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:04:59 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:05:21 --- join: ecraven (~ecraven@www.nexoid.at) joined #forth 11:05:21 --- join: APic (apic@apic.name) joined #forth 11:05:29 --- join: moony (moony@hellomouse/dev/moony) joined #forth 11:06:16 --- join: presiden (fwiw@unaffiliated/matematikaadit) joined #forth 11:06:56 --- join: rain1 (~My_user_n@unaffiliated/rain1) joined #forth 11:14:29 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:25:57 https://www.1-9-9-1.com/ 12:26:13 > A server-side web framework written in Forth 12:26:20 *clap* 12:26:40 whose forth? do we care? (so what?) 12:27:50 --- join: mahmudov (~milisman@5.176.61.140) joined #forth 12:28:04 I dunno why everyone gets all wet-pants over a stupid "server", let alone "web" - so far, most of the web is pure shit. 12:32:10 it's a domain you don't often see Forth in 12:32:25 and those are pretty impressive features 12:33:32 Does get posted a lot for something I've never seen used but the code base is (mostly) solid too 12:34:49 I'm appreciating for people that creates such project. 12:35:12 string processing in forth is far worse than elsewhere - so, kudos 12:35:50 --- join: xek__ (~xek@apn-37-248-138-83.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl) joined #forth 12:35:58 that forth rarely is the OS and groks file-systems is also amusing 12:37:18 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:37:52 --- join: mtsd (~mtsd@94-137-100-130.customers.ownit.se) joined #forth 12:38:20 --- quit: xek_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 12:41:28 --- join: proteus-guy (~proteusgu@2403:6200:88a6:329f:dcfc:1aac:81d7:ccdc) joined #forth 12:43:05 I think it's pretty neat to have more applications written in Forth. 12:43:26 Even if you just consider it a fun toy, it shows what Forth can do. 12:43:59 it's a flask-like server in 480 lines of Forth 12:44:17 and a bunch of those lines are due to ANS-style syntax 12:44:33 The power of FORTH! 12:58:17 interesting - thanks for sharing 13:19:29 --- join: spestov (~spestov@cpe-67-245-201-127.nyc.res.rr.com) joined #forth 13:19:56 anyone familiar with OpenFirmware here? after a trap, I'd like to disassemble some code around the faulting instruction 13:20:01 and also see what the faulting address was 13:20:15 this is on a SPARC 13:31:41 --- quit: xek__ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 13:46:01 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: WeeChat 1.6) 13:56:05 --- nick: corecode_ -> corecode 13:57:38 --- quit: mahmudov (Remote host closed the connection) 13:58:46 --- quit: Ambler (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)) 14:33:55 --- nick: jedb_ -> jedb 14:56:19 --- join: dave0 (~dave0@193.060.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 14:56:30 hi 15:15:49 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19146767 first time i've seen anything about forth be upvoted to such a degree in HN 15:16:50 yes, it was the 1-9-9-1 thing 15:30:43 disappointingly, 1-9-9-1 isn't hosted using 1-9-9-1 15:31:00 heh 16:47:50 --- quit: john_cephalopoda (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 16:49:23 --- join: john_cephalopoda (~john@unaffiliated/john-cephalopoda/x-6407167) joined #forth 17:59:32 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 18:30:06 --- join: tabemann (~travisb@162-225-198-161.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 18:44:03 --- quit: lonjil2 (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 18:47:25 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@b157153.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 18:52:09 --- join: lonjil (~quassel@2a02:418:6050:ed15:ed15:ed15:e741:32d6) joined #forth 18:53:37 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 18:56:01 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 19:08:43 --- join: travisb (~travisb@172-13-49-137.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 19:33:26 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h109-187-219-53.dyn.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 21:26:35 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 22:51:53 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@mx-ll-180.183.130-108.dynamic.3bb.co.th) joined #forth 22:51:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 22:54:15 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23:10:04 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@mx-ll-180.183.132-171.dynamic.3bb.co.th) joined #forth 23:10:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/19.02.12