00:00:00 --- log: started forth/19.01.18 00:17:08 --- quit: pierpal (Remote host closed the connection) 00:17:18 --- quit: smokeink (Remote host closed the connection) 00:23:36 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 00:58:40 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01:01:13 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 01:03:19 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01:03:34 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 01:08:19 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 01:17:07 --- join: tabemann_ (~tabemann@172-13-49-137.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 01:19:02 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 01:28:50 --- join: xek (~xek@apn-31-0-23-83.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl) joined #forth 02:04:10 --- quit: ashirase (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 02:13:25 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 02:14:40 --- quit: pierpal (Client Quit) 02:15:00 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 02:20:36 --- join: ashirase (~ashirase@modemcable098.166-22-96.mc.videotron.ca) joined #forth 02:56:29 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:24:44 --- join: smokeink (~smokeink@118.131.144.142) joined #forth 04:19:30 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 04:51:52 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 04:52:03 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 04:54:49 --- join: PSnacks (~PSnacks@p200300CB27039AFC4101572B764A9D88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 05:16:03 --- join: Kumool (~Khwerz@adsl-64-237-239-252.prtc.net) joined #forth 05:24:34 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-b@cm-58-10-154-54.revip7.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 05:24:34 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 05:25:47 --- quit: WilhelmV1nWeiner (Quit: leaving) 05:25:57 --- join: WilhelmVonWeiner (dch@ny1.hashbang.sh) joined #forth 05:48:03 --- quit: xek (Remote host closed the connection) 05:48:24 --- join: xek (~xek@apn-31-0-23-83.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl) joined #forth 06:48:40 --- quit: smokeink (Remote host closed the connection) 07:23:44 --- quit: xek (Remote host closed the connection) 07:24:03 --- join: xek (~xek@apn-31-0-23-83.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl) joined #forth 07:59:59 --- join: darithorn (~darithorn@75.174.238.174) joined #forth 08:02:29 --- quit: tabemann_ (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 08:22:19 --- quit: Keshl (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08:22:56 --- join: Keshl (~Purple@24.115.185.149.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 08:53:15 --- quit: nighty- (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08:59:08 --- quit: Kumool (Quit: EXIT) 09:27:34 i have an idea 09:28:18 it's dangerous because last time i had a forth idea and wanted to experiment with it, i lost a year of my life 09:28:35 those rabbit holes can be dangerous to go down! 09:29:24 so maybe i should ask about it first because i'm sure it's been done before 09:30:04 that's no reason not to go do it yourself! we're forthers!!! :-D 09:30:11 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-123-141.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 09:30:57 that's true, and if it does turn out to be the greatest advancement in computing history, i don't want to give it away! 09:30:59 Does anyone know where Chuck talked about using a four-key keyboard to use OKAD? 09:32:38 ideas are a dime a dozen - execution is everything. i often hope people will steal my ideas and implement them well enough so I don't have to and can just get the benefit of them. 09:32:54 not my ideas 09:33:14 WilhelmVonWeiner, I definitely remember reading about it but don't recall where. Probably the 80s or 90s. 09:33:21 http://www.ultratechnology.com/tape1-2.htm 09:33:22 Got it 09:33:59 my ideas are often the result of thousands of collective hours in the shower, and even then still aren't very good 09:35:09 someone email chuck and ask if he ever used a chording keyboard 09:37:36 well, showers are never as GOOD as a hot bath/soak, but - try less showers. 09:42:19 Interesting quote from acclaimed psychic Chuck Moore http://ix.io/1yCx 09:42:47 WilhelmVonWeiner, oh yeah - 1000% agree with that. 09:43:59 I wonder if Chuck is just far too radical 09:44:29 will his wisdom be appreciated after he's gone? 09:44:34 there's certainly some truth to that. 09:45:45 I think a big part of the issue is that forth is an incredibly solitary language built by solitary people. it's design is inherently non-scalable in terms of team size and it does not enhance collaboration amongst a group. that's the #1 reason why I think it didn't get the acceptance that is inline with its real potential. 09:46:16 when that is fixed then i think Chuck's wisdom will be considered "common sense". 09:46:20 I've always wondered about the team thing 09:46:38 I know I won't know my answer until I've had to work in that kind of environment 09:46:54 * proteusguy has a team of 60 now. 09:47:47 At the time Chuck made that statement, you can be sure that custom-silicon was not even the twinkle in someones eye 09:48:23 proteusguy: you could show me a room full of people trying and failing to make team Forth work 09:48:57 but I'm a noob 09:49:10 my dreams haven't yet been crushed 09:49:14 WilhelmVonWeiner, I would never venture to throw a team of people at forth. 09:49:47 I am, however, working on a forth-ish language design that is intended to address this very issue. 09:49:52 I wonder what Forth, Inc or iTV or even GreenArrays do? 10:55:31 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 11:02:14 --- quit: PSnacks (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 11:02:31 --- join: PSnacks (~PSnacks@p200300CB27039AFC518C5184F7EA3082.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 11:07:13 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:07:26 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 11:08:31 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:08:45 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 11:09:49 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:20:08 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 11:28:10 --- join: mtsd (~mtsd@94-137-100-130.customers.ownit.se) joined #forth 11:31:02 --- quit: PSnacks (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 11:40:37 --- join: PSnacks (~PSnacks@31.25.41.37) joined #forth 11:44:52 --- quit: PSnacks (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 11:45:27 --- join: PSnacks (~PSnacks@31.25.41.37) joined #forth 11:53:21 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 12:00:56 Would you all be okay with some moderation to remove crank computer science posts from https://www.reddit.com/r/Forth ? They're kind of cluttering up the forum and the downvote system only really works on huge subreddits. 12:00:56 I noticed the subscriber counts dip a little because of them. 12:00:56 To keep moderation democratic and less authoritarian, maybe remove posts downvoted below some threshold, say, downvoted below 40%? 12:01:14 pointfree: sure 12:01:41 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 12:08:14 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 12:14:24 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 12:18:00 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-113-111.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 12:19:19 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12:22:21 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 12:24:08 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: WeeChat 1.6) 12:29:55 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12:32:14 --- join: Kumool (~Khwerz@adsl-64-237-233-188.prtc.net) joined #forth 12:36:44 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 12:42:11 --- quit: PSnacks (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12:44:05 --- join: PSnacks (~PSnacks@31.25.41.37) joined #forth 12:44:20 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 12:47:05 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 12:53:14 --- quit: PSnacks (Quit: Quit) 13:12:50 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 13:17:51 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 13:23:18 finished my initial personal pastebin. http://forth.works/af6ac1b5de7423d72990359b3dc573f1 is the tool to copy data into it, http://forth.works/05a2efb168223423c35331f6f5649b35 is a minimal http/gopher server (using inetd) for sharing the data 13:47:06 crc: Cool! A pastebin tool from within retro forth? 13:47:07 I need a `: ,paste ( addr n --) ... ;` word 13:48:01 pointfree: I could add that to mine 13:48:47 it's currently doing files, but should be easy to adapt for strings 13:52:15 crc: It would feel very satisfying if it was just a comma compiler word. 13:52:15 ...Or just `defer` the `emit` word and wrap with `+paste` `-paste`. That way you could paste output from `dump` or `see` etc. 13:52:35 pointfree: you mean ,paste ( str_addr str_len url_addr url_max_len -- ) \ no? 13:52:59 or that 13:53:17 Zarutian: probably just generate a tiny url for the paste. 13:53:36 yeah, but where does that url go? 13:53:56 (the url text string itself that is) 13:54:03 pointfree: I'll implement a ,paste in retro this weekend 13:54:44 crc: ya decided on how to interface with sockets yet? (both tcp and udp) 13:54:49 (there are currently no `defer`ed words in retro, though doing that might be useful) 13:54:58 Zarutian: not yet 13:55:09 Zarutian: : ,paste ( addr n -- url_addr n ) ; ,paste type 13:56:08 pointfree: url_addr would point somewhere in the same scratch memory range as PAD does? 13:56:19 s/in/into/ 13:56:25 yeah 13:58:00 crc: yay! 14:07:10 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 14:19:34 --- join: dave0 (~dave0@193.060.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 14:22:10 hi 14:25:40 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 14:44:28 A very quick & dirty ,paste http://forth.works/f3d9200ce2fc754953cb44e4a93ba332 14:45:02 I'll refactor and clean it up either tonight or tomorrow 14:52:49 --- quit: reepca (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:59:13 crc: deferred words would work better as unhooked hook words 15:00:22 then hooks become a feature, not just an example 15:18:33 Hmm, that'll add three words to the base image and necessitate adding something to the glossary to indicate words hat an be hooked 15:30:32 --- join: X-Scale (~ARM@83.223.241.68) joined #forth 15:40:46 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 15:41:05 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 16:53:25 --- quit: john_cephalopoda (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 16:55:03 --- join: john_cephalopoda (~john@unaffiliated/john-cephalopoda/x-6407167) joined #forth 16:58:44 --- join: smokeink (~smokeink@118.131.144.142) joined #forth 16:58:57 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:59:12 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 17:03:22 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 17:08:21 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 17:09:44 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:19:12 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 17:19:48 We need a nice Forth standard and tons of APIs. 17:23:19 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 17:40:21 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 17:44:35 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 17:45:24 --- join: Monev (~Khwerz@adsl-64-237-235-54.prtc.net) joined #forth 17:45:29 --- quit: Kumool (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 17:47:08 --- quit: Monev (Client Quit) 17:47:23 --- join: Kumool (~Khwerz@adsl-64-237-235-54.prtc.net) joined #forth 18:20:07 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 18:20:25 yea 18:20:31 forth19 18:20:42 and commitees 18:24:22 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 18:45:32 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 18:48:13 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:48:45 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 18:52:55 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 18:55:54 forth just needs more babes 19:01:32 you mean SJW, or litter[s]? 19:01:48 oh, not "baBIES" - I see.. 19:01:53 Kids... they never learn 19:17:59 if i meant sjw i would have said worthless shitheads 19:20:06 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 19:24:09 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 19:32:09 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 19:34:56 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:37:34 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 19:42:03 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 19:42:31 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@b157153.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 19:43:25 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 19:47:20 --- join: reepca (~user@208.89.170.250) joined #forth 19:48:02 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 19:56:06 --- join: dave69 (~dave0@193.060.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 19:56:16 --- quit: dave0 (Disconnected by services) 19:56:20 --- nick: dave69 -> dave0 19:56:25 re 20:31:56 does spf forth have "SEE" or an alternative to it? How can I quickly find the definition of a word? 20:33:10 I've never tried the russkie-forth... I remember DL'ing it, but - maybe it was for doze. 20:35:37 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 20:42:10 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 20:43:21 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 20:47:08 --- quit: Kumool (Quit: EXIT) 20:48:36 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h109-187-251-146.dyn.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 20:49:35 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 20:54:20 ok, I've added hooks to retro, and `c:put` now allows hooking to redirect text output. 20:55:07 heh.. I've been twiddling an opcode/bundle setup 21:00:28 smokeink: it's defined in lib/ext/disasm.f 21:02:23 crc: thank you! Actually in doc/intro it mentioned it but somehow I missed it 21:09:51 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 21:16:15 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 21:17:00 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 21:18:46 after reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XOR_gate i got a nice short xor word (not=invert).. : xor 2dup and not >r or r> and ; 21:19:40 i even tested it! 21:23:20 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 21:27:38 http://forth.works/5a744df254697b3d76ec97694aa941a7 is the refactored pastebin word 21:28:13 <`presiden> dave0, alternatively, : xor 2dup invert >r invert and swap r> and or ; 21:28:31 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 21:29:14 <`presiden> from the (A and not(B)) or (not(A) and B) definition 21:32:35 `presiden: before i read the wikipedia page, that was the only way to get xor that i knew 21:32:41 your way 21:42:06 crc: i have to learn RETRO now :-) 21:44:52 is there any inbuilt word that returns an address to the string without its size? spf by default adds a null byte at the end so they're usable with Winapi I could only think of defining: : R" postpone S" drop ; \ raw string 21:50:43 why can't you just ditch the count? 21:57:50 --- quit: darithorn (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:06:14 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 22:12:58 just to avoid typing drop after each string, I can use R" mystring" instead of S" mystring" drop . I was curious if there's any builtin that already does it, in a more lowlevel way 22:57:16 pointfree, I wouldn't remove posts due to votes but I would leave it to the decision of the moderator if it wasn't relevant to forth. 23:09:12 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 23:09:31 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host53-189-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 23:42:07 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 23:43:15 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-b@cm-58-10-154-54.revip7.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 23:43:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 23:57:25 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/19.01.18