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01:17:17 <dave0> re
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09:10:12 <KipIngram> bufufer 3
09:10:15 <KipIngram> Ooops.
09:10:17 <KipIngram> Sorry.
09:10:56 <PoppaVic> silly screen-user ;-)
09:17:59 <john_cephalopoda> alt-b 1
09:18:31 <john_cephalopoda> tmux ftw ;)
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09:30:21 <PoppaVic> I'm quite happy with Terminator, thanks anyway ;-)
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17:29:51 <dave0> hi
17:34:01 <DKordic> Hi dave0.  
17:34:33 <dave0> hi DKordic 
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18:22:27 <tabemann> hey rdrop-exit 
18:23:53 <rdrop-exit> Good morning Tabemann :)
18:24:29 <tabemann> it's evening here, but same difference :)
18:25:41 <rdrop-exit> US?
18:26:12 <tabemann> I've been looking at my code, and it doesn't seem too lengthy - most of the really long functions are ones in which I put each ELSE, THEN, REPEAT, UNTIL, and LOOP on its own line
18:26:14 <tabemann> yeah
18:27:16 <tabemann> well, most of it
18:27:53 <tabemann> there's some functions which are nested IF ELSE THEN after IF ELSE THEN, including CASE OF ENDOF ENDCASE stuff in there as well
18:28:42 <tabemann> and there's some functions which are short, but I'd be damned if I could understand how they work without going through the function word by word to figure out how it functions
18:29:12 <rdrop-exit> My words are usually 1 to 3 lines long. The ones that are longer usually have some simple internal pattern. I've never implemted CASE.
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18:30:11 <tabemann> I wonder what the median length in lines and the median length in words of my words
18:30:50 <tabemann> (the mean length in lines is probably quite a bit larger than 3... but mean isn't a robust statistic)
18:32:36 <tabemann> I've been lately trying to cut down my big words into smaller ones... but a lot of the time I don't understand how the big words work anymore, so I need to reverse engineer them before I can even factor them
18:33:43 <rdrop-exit> I always have a block comment on the top line, then a blank line, and a blank line reserved at the bottom.
18:34:10 <rdrop-exit> Therefore I can't have any definitions longer than 12 lines.
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18:34:52 <tabemann> oh you're using blocks
18:35:45 <rdrop-exit> That's the problem with long definitions, they take a lot of work to refactor. Best not to let definitions ever get long in the first place.
18:36:27 <rdrop-exit> Yes, I enjoy coding with blocks.
18:36:38 <rdrop-exit> I think of it as coding on index cards.
18:37:54 <rdrop-exit> * can't have a definition longer than 13 lines.
18:41:23 <tabemann> right now as we speak I'm busy refactoring
18:41:38 <rdrop-exit> Cool
18:43:38 <rdrop-exit> Here's an example of a source block:
18:44:20 <rdrop-exit> 0 source  Outer Interpreter - Compiler
18:44:21 <rdrop-exit> 1
18:44:21 <rdrop-exit> 2 : compile, ( ca -- )
18:44:21 <rdrop-exit> 3   dup >link #inline  ?dup if  bmove,  then;
18:44:21 <rdrop-exit> 4   & call32 32, ; compiled
18:44:23 <rdrop-exit> 5
18:44:25 <rdrop-exit> 6 variable 'compiler  compiled
18:44:28 <rdrop-exit> 7
18:44:30 <rdrop-exit> 8 : compiler ( -- ? )
18:44:33 <rdrop-exit> 9   compilation lookup 0= if  number  & literal  then;
18:44:35 <rdrop-exit> a   dup immediate? if  >code execute  then;
18:44:38 <rdrop-exit> b   >code compile, ; compiled
18:44:40 <rdrop-exit> c
18:44:43 <rdrop-exit> d : compiler0 ( -- ) 'compiler references compiler ; compiled
18:44:45 <rdrop-exit> e
18:44:48 <rdrop-exit> f
18:47:11 <rdrop-exit> I recently renamed "compile-only" to "compiled" in my new Forth
18:47:48 <tabemann> I figured that
18:48:05 * tabemann hasn't implemented compile-only
18:48:15 <rdrop-exit> Here's the corresponding shadow block:
18:48:33 <tabemann> (which has resulted in my crashing attoforth when I forget that a word is compile-only)
18:48:42 <rdrop-exit> 0 shadow  Outer Interpreter - Compiler
18:48:42 <rdrop-exit> 1
18:48:42 <rdrop-exit> 2 compile,  Compile a call to a code address, if the definition
18:48:42 <rdrop-exit> 3           has a non-zero inline length simply inline the code
18:48:42 <rdrop-exit> 4           instead.
18:48:44 <rdrop-exit> 5
18:48:47 <rdrop-exit> 6 'compiler Holds the code address of the current compiler
18:48:49 <rdrop-exit> 7           routine.
18:48:52 <rdrop-exit> 8
18:48:54 <rdrop-exit> 9 compiler  The default compiler. Attempts the compilation of the
18:48:57 <rdrop-exit> a           transient string by first treating it as a name and
18:48:59 <rdrop-exit> b           if that fails as a decimal number representation.
18:49:02 <rdrop-exit> c
18:49:04 <rdrop-exit> d compiler0 Resets the current compiler routine to the default
18:49:07 <rdrop-exit> e           compiler routine.
18:49:09 <rdrop-exit> f
18:50:12 <tabemann> this is so much more minimal than my interpreter/compiler
18:51:26 <rdrop-exit> That's just the compiler, I factored the interpreter separately, and also the outer interpreter into their own definitions.
18:53:13 <rdrop-exit> Here's the interpreter:
18:53:30 <rdrop-exit> 0 source  Outer Interpreter - Interpreter
18:53:30 <rdrop-exit> 1
18:53:30 <rdrop-exit> 2 : interpreter ( -- ? )
18:53:30 <rdrop-exit> 3   interpretation lookup if
18:53:30 <rdrop-exit> 4    >code execute
18:53:32 <rdrop-exit> 5   then;  number ; compiled
18:54:37 <rdrop-exit> 0 shadow  Outer Interpreter - Interpreter
18:54:37 <rdrop-exit> 1
18:54:37 <rdrop-exit> 2 interpreter Attempt the interpretation of the transient string
18:54:37 <rdrop-exit> 3             treating it as a word name or a decimal number.
18:54:37 <rdrop-exit> 4
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18:56:34 <tabemann> yeah, my interpreter/compiler is one big function that does everything
18:56:46 <tabemann> it doesn't even attempt to be minimal
18:56:57 <rdrop-exit> How many lines?
19:01:53 <tabemann> 63
19:02:11 <tabemann> mind you it generates error messages and prints out errors when the stacks are out of range
19:02:36 <tabemann> and it handles parsing of not just integers, but floating point numbers and double cells
19:02:57 <PoppaVic> decomposition
19:03:00 <tabemann> it could benefit from some factoring though
19:04:39 <rdrop-exit> You could move the printing of the error messages to the handlers for the those exceptions.
19:05:56 <rdrop-exit> I use prefixes for number bases other than decimal, e.g. $ xxxx for hex, % xxxx for binary.
19:06:22 <tabemann> number parsing itself goes on in separate words
19:06:39 <rdrop-exit> No floating point.
19:06:57 <tabemann> but just the logistics if invoking those words, and handling when they fail, goes on in the interpreter/compiler word
19:07:19 <rdrop-exit> No double cells either as this particular Forth is 64 bit, it's the host end of my IDE.
19:09:27 <rdrop-exit> Handling when those exceptions fail could be moved to the outer interpreter.
19:09:27 <tabemann> I mostly put in double cells because I plan on porting at some point to 32 bit archs like (non ARMv8-A) ARM
19:09:57 <tabemann> mind by interpreter I mean the outer interpreter
19:10:39 <tabemann> the inner interpreter is tight loop written in C
19:10:43 <tabemann> *a]
19:10:45 <tabemann> *a
19:11:41 <rdrop-exit> The inner interpreter is your "next" or equivalent, that's not what I mean.
19:12:29 <rdrop-exit> The outer interpreter is the to level interactive loop.
19:12:45 <tabemann> but yeah, I have as separate word QUIT that handles exceptions and calls REFILL and returns control to INTERPRET afterwards
19:12:55 <rdrop-exit> What some interpretive languages call the repl IIRC
19:13:12 <tabemann> yeah, I have that
19:14:22 <rdrop-exit> I prefer to use the name "restart" instead of QUIT.
19:15:17 <rdrop-exit> "outer" is my outer interpreter, it calls either the interpreter or the compiler for incoming tokens.
19:16:48 <tabemann> my QUIT fetches input a line at a time, and calls INTERPRET which does the interpreting or compiling of that line, and catches whatever exceptions are raised within INTERPRET
19:17:35 <tabemann> and generates error messages for those exceptions - but not for ones from bad parses, which generate error messages before exceptions are raised
19:18:09 <rdrop-exit> I see, I process input a token at time, similar to how LaForth did.
19:18:23 <rdrop-exit> 0 shadow  Outer Interpreter - Core
19:18:23 <rdrop-exit> 1
19:18:23 <rdrop-exit> 2 'dispatch Holds the code address of the current processing
19:18:23 <rdrop-exit> 3           engine of the outer interpreter, typically either the
19:18:23 <rdrop-exit> 4           |interpreter| or the |compiler|.
19:18:25 <rdrop-exit> 5 dispatch  Perform |'dispatch|.
19:18:28 <rdrop-exit> 6
19:18:30 <rdrop-exit> 7 outer     The outer interpreter. Continuously parse tokens
19:18:33 <rdrop-exit> 8           from input and dispatch them to the outer
19:18:35 <rdrop-exit> 9           interpreter's current processing engine.
19:18:38 <rdrop-exit> a
19:18:40 <rdrop-exit> 0 source  Outer Interpreter - Core
19:18:43 <rdrop-exit> 1
19:18:46 <rdrop-exit> 2 variable 'dispatch  compiled
19:18:48 <rdrop-exit> 3
19:18:51 <rdrop-exit> 4 : dispatch ( -- ) 'dispatch perform ;inline compiled
19:18:53 <rdrop-exit> 5
19:18:56 <rdrop-exit> 6 : outer ( -- n/a )
19:18:58 <rdrop-exit> 7   token  try dispatch  intercept  refresh  recur ; compiled
19:19:01 <rdrop-exit> 8
19:21:19 <rdrop-exit> "[" sets 'dispatch to "interpreter", and "]" sets it to "compiler".
19:22:12 <rdrop-exit> "intercept" handles the exceptions
19:22:50 <rdrop-exit> "refresh" resfreshes the terminal screen
19:23:48 <rdrop-exit> "recur" jumps back to the beginning
19:25:28 <rdrop-exit> "try" is similar but simpler to ANS "catch"
19:26:46 <rdrop-exit> 'dispatch is my alternative to having a STATE variable
19:27:03 <tabemann> you'd be absolutely appalled by my line editor
19:27:55 <tabemann> and I should rewrite it, because it's currently hard-coded for ANSI...
19:28:20 <tabemann> which'd probably make it even more complex, because then I'd have to code in a termcap or terminfo parser
19:30:37 <rdrop-exit> This Forth uses lowest common denominator terminal codes, ECMA-48, I fall back on various DEC VT codes for a few things ECMA-48 doesn't cover, such as cursor shape and blinking.
19:32:54 <rdrop-exit> I do some things "manually" so as not to depend on a large number of terminal control codes.
19:34:35 <tabemann> I use pretty much just straight ANSI except for two DEC codes I use for hiding and showing the cursor
19:34:49 <rdrop-exit> I have to get ready for poker with my buds, chat again soon. Keep on Forthin'
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20:40:07 <verisimilitude> UNIX's termcap and terminfo nonsense is a complete waste of your time, tabemann.
20:40:28 <verisimilitude> Simply go with ECMA-48 and you'll not only target a real standard, but every modern terminal.
20:40:55 <verisimilitude> However, yes, many terminals are so deficient that they support hardly any of the particularly interesting control functions therein.
20:41:54 <tabemann> back
20:42:59 <tabemann> I really care about just something that supports every modern terminal emulator, not every terminal made
20:51:37 <tabemann> I do wish that ANSI had built-in support for hiding and showing the cursor
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21:13:32 <verisimilitude> I'll double check for you, since I have a printed and bound copy of the standard.
21:16:03 <verisimilitude> Right, there's no mode for that, unfortunately.
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