00:00:00 --- log: started forth/18.11.15 00:56:50 --- quit: MrMobius (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01:06:38 --- join: xek (~xek@apn-37-248-138-82.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl) joined #forth 02:02:59 --- quit: ashirase (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 02:04:02 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 02:11:33 --- join: ashirase (~ashirase@modemcable098.166-22-96.mc.videotron.ca) joined #forth 02:18:44 --- join: jedb_ (~jedb@199.66.90.113) joined #forth 02:19:38 --- quit: NB0X-Matt-CA (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 02:21:56 --- join: NB0X-Matt-CA (~nonlinear@unaffiliated/discrttm) joined #forth 02:22:08 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 02:40:00 --- nick: jedb_ -> jedb 03:21:37 --- join: john_cephalopoda (~john@unaffiliated/john-cephalopoda/x-6407167) joined #forth 03:43:15 --- join: wa5qjh (~quassel@175.158.225.217) joined #forth 03:43:15 --- quit: wa5qjh (Changing host) 03:43:15 --- join: wa5qjh (~quassel@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 03:47:26 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host91-236-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 04:11:27 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 05:00:28 --- quit: john_cephalopoda (Quit: Trees can see into your soul. They lurk everywhere.) 05:19:47 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 05:36:46 --- join: john_cephalopoda (~john@unaffiliated/john-cephalopoda/x-6407167) joined #forth 05:37:08 I am working on a nice sixel drawing routine rn. 05:38:59 I think that plot ( val x y -- ) is a pretty nice thing. 05:39:23 PLOT and DRAW 05:48:59 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 05:49:17 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host91-236-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 05:56:45 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 06:24:46 --- nick: Guest3080 -> wilhelmvonweiner 06:24:54 --- nick: wilhelmvonweiner -> WilhelmVonWeiner 06:25:34 I need to set up irssi to stop randomly relogging into every server, and to identify me on a reconnect 06:25:54 Afternoon Forth-heads 06:33:49 Good morning 06:38:17 Today's TODO (started at 1438): Set up RSS, set up a networked fileserver, set up git/fossil (currently unsure) 06:38:31 I keep losing track of my Forth snippets. 06:54:45 WilhelmVonWeiner: you dont have a huge ideas and stuff file? 06:58:26 Hey WilhelmVonWeiner 06:59:10 WilhelmVonWeiner: Setting up git is pretty convenient. I am using it on my own server. 06:59:18 Never tried fossil. 07:00:44 Git is basically one command (git init --bare). After that you can check out the repo via ssh. 07:02:48 Zarutian: usually `echo "Thing I just thought up" >> docs/newthingaskdjaslkdja` 07:03:02 the file `docs/newthing` will already be taken 07:03:21 john_cephalopoda: fossil provides a lot of stuff git doesn't, and in one executable. 07:03:46 WilhelmVonWeiner: I don't even need like 99% of the features that git gives me. 07:03:58 I basically need versioned file uploads and that's what I use git for. 07:13:52 * crc likes fossil 07:25:16 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 07:30:02 https://meta.sr.ht/ 07:30:08 some of you might like this 07:45:28 gee I am seeing more and more news about how speculative execution and such hacks are actually inccompatible with safety/security. 07:47:28 the sooner that designers stop trying to treat 'main' memory other than a ramdisk and the per core caches as the actual main memory the better. 07:57:55 * Zarutian gets ranty 07:58:26 take for instance branch-prediction, which is exploited in many Spectre variants 07:59:01 why does it exists? because otherwise an/the execution pipeline could stall 07:59:45 why does the execution pipeline exists? because CPU cores have gotten much faster than 'main' memory 08:00:28 You got a few dozen caches for your memory. 08:00:35 which is also the reason for Lx caches, which is made up of much more expensive SRAM 08:00:42 Yup. 08:01:36 how much SRAM can you fit into the die space of an CAM based cache? Much more than that cache could hold. 08:02:49 so why doesnt each CPU core have its own dedicated SRAM instead? because of legacy single threaded code 08:03:12 (plus each core could be much more simpler than they currently are) 08:04:30 why is there so much legacy code? because multi-exec-threaded programming is supposedly hard 08:05:16 why is such programming hard? because the thought model of how you use memory in programming is flawed. 08:06:43 a diffrent tack to the kind of problems that require high throughput and relatively low latency is FlowBasedProgramming that was invented/discovered when unit machines were the main way to do computations and crunch data. 08:08:38 a bit of a meta comment that I noticed with native English speakers: with which particle do you add to a word in the sentence "cleaned car", a/an or the? 08:09:49 most native English speakers graviate toward the latter while I and others that speak natively languages that lack the unspecified particle put in a/an when we remember to do so. 08:11:50 depends on the context 08:12:04 I hypotheise that this subtle difference of language usage (part of the Shapir-Wolf hypothesis) has influenced designers of computers of thinking of just 'the' cpu instead of 'a' cpu/processing-unit 08:12:09 if I worked at a car wash, I cleaned a car, then I cleaned another one, etc 08:12:12 if I'm saying "I cleaned my car today" I might say "I cleaned the car" 08:12:20 yeah what dzho said 08:12:26 but if its a car that belongs to me or someone in my household, I'd clean the car 08:12:36 lacking context which particle would you insert though? 08:12:59 a/an is an unspecific article, whereas "the" is the specific article 08:13:26 if you have a specific noun in mind, then "the" is the article to use 08:13:38 a specific instance of the noun 08:13:54 there are dogs, and that might be a dog, but if it's my dog, then it's the dog 08:14:27 or, if I don't have a dog, but my neighbor has a dog who is always coming into my yard, I might say that "the dog" pooped again in the yard 08:14:29 I know what a/an and the are for. It is just that I recently-ish I noticed this subtle trap 08:15:02 a fun thing I've noticed is use of "since" 08:15:18 native speakers tend to use "since" when referring to a specific point in the past 08:15:31 like, I have been talking about English here since 16:11 UTC 08:15:58 but certain European speakers of English as a second language will use it to refer to a span of time 08:16:02 but some non-native speakers use since in the meaning 'therefore' or such? 08:16:12 "I have been speaking about English since several minutes" 08:16:30 what the lojbanists call 'event-contour' 08:17:20 in my experience those who speak English as their first language would never use since that way, they'd say "I have been speaking about English *for* 5 minutes" 08:17:29 Heh, 16:11 vs 4:11 pm. Also a thing that differs between states. 08:17:42 meh 08:17:54 * Zarutian found translating draft-text into lojban forces one to eliminate ambigiouty one did not mean. 08:18:09 I use UTC because I'm running my IRC client on a remote server anyway 08:18:35 dzho: I mean using 24 hour format vs. 12 hour format. 08:18:43 oh right 08:19:03 I think of them as being adjacent 08:19:21 Adjacent? 08:19:27 converting timezones is even more complicated when using a 12 hour clock 08:20:03 some timezones in USA might be a bit behind whilist others are stuck in the fifties. ;-Þ 08:20:40 :þ 08:20:54 lol 08:23:21 dzho: but yeah ya get what I was getting at, no? 08:23:46 not sure I do, sorry 08:25:20 * dzho scrolls back 08:25:24 ok yeah, maybe! 08:25:53 it is the sublte 'singular' versus unspecified 'plural' when people are thinking about design of digital electronics such as cpus 08:26:27 drives one to think much more of a single-core von Neumann model 08:27:03 might this be more subtler than language? for instance if I only show you one example of something then you do no get enough to make a more general model of what that 'something' might be. 08:28:01 dzho: precisely! 08:29:08 when in truth what limits execution speed is the bandwith of the memory to the cpu bottleneck 08:30:05 Zarutian: "FlowBasedProgramming" 08:30:09 Like dataflow programming? 08:30:33 and gods of the diskworld! the complexity of instructions on early cisc machines also indicated that people wanted to include various hardware features just because. 08:31:09 WilhelmVonWeiner: hmm.. what do you know of unit machines, punched cards and how one might do computations with those? 08:32:19 WilhelmVonWeiner: basically as I understand FBP it is mainly about setting up 'nets' of flow of punched cards (even though they might be virtual but bear with me) between unit machines inputs and outputs 08:32:25 absolutely nothing. I'll google it. 08:32:38 --- quit: ncv (Remote host closed the connection) 08:32:51 WilhelmVonWeiner: plus the settings of those unit machines. 08:33:57 the inventor/discoverer said that he thought of it after having watched a production line setup at work. 08:34:06 what's a unit machine, "solve one thing and do it well"? 08:34:31 pretty much. 08:34:38 sounds like functional/dataflow to me. 08:34:59 You can have various kinds such as accumulators, tabulators, sorters and so on 08:36:05 well dataflow is more reactive. One example enviroment I have looked at is Pure Data which is mainly used for audio work iirc. 08:37:19 there each 'conveyor' between unit machines only have one kind/type of value. In FBP you can also have some control kind of 'punch cards' 08:37:26 on those 'conveyors'. 08:38:06 in FBP the 'punch cards' are called 'Information Packets' btw 08:40:34 http://www.jpaulmorrison.com/fbp/ is usually the site I point people to regarding FBP 08:45:44 "FBP is a special case of dataflow programming" 08:45:48 I am interested 08:50:03 --- join: MrMobius (~default@c-73-134-82-217.hsd1.va.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:11:29 --- quit: dddddd (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 09:26:46 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 09:51:29 Erlang, Elixir and Go seem very Flow-y. 09:52:50 --- join: logiqub (~victor@amontsouris-559-1-30-160.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #forth 12:09:37 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 12:37:36 --- quit: WilhelmVonWeiner (Quit: Lost terminal) 12:43:40 --- join: WilhelmVonWeiner (dch@ny1.hashbang.sh) joined #forth 12:45:40 --- quit: WilhelmVonWeiner (Client Quit) 12:49:23 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host91-236-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 12:49:47 --- quit: Keshl (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 13:02:20 --- join: TheCephalopod (~john@unaffiliated/john-cephalopoda/x-6407167) joined #forth 13:05:00 --- join: Keshl (~Purple@24.115.185.149.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 13:14:35 --- join: wa5qjh (~quassel@175.158.225.217) joined #forth 13:14:35 --- quit: wa5qjh (Changing host) 13:14:35 --- join: wa5qjh (~quassel@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 13:35:54 --- quit: dne (Remote host closed the connection) 13:37:59 --- join: dne (~dne@jaune.mayonnaise.net) joined #forth 13:38:03 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:38:17 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host91-236-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 13:58:06 --- quit: xek (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 14:46:46 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 15:01:27 --- join: dave0 (~dave@47.44-27-211.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 15:02:10 hi 15:16:11 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:19:02 Hi dave0 15:27:38 --- join: WilhelmVonWeiner (dch@ny1.hashbang.sh) joined #forth 15:31:38 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host91-236-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 15:32:52 hi KipIngram 15:32:55 sup? 15:34:02 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:34:17 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host91-236-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 15:37:41 --- quit: logiqub (Quit: leaving) 15:42:44 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 15:51:55 One day to vacation. 15:51:59 I'm so over work right now. 15:52:15 haha 15:53:08 if you don't like your job you don't quit, you just go in and do it really half-assed 15:53:32 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host91-236-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 15:54:31 get paid to half-quit 15:54:41 i like your style dave 15:55:11 lol 15:55:55 --- quit: TheCephalopod (Quit: Trees can see into your soul. They lurk everywhere.) 15:56:41 --- quit: john_cephalopoda (Quit: Trees can see into your soul.) 16:04:02 Heh heh heh. 16:04:20 Well, I generally to pretty well. Once in a while I get a mini-burnout, and I've got one now. 16:04:33 It's because of this week of all-day meetings - that's just not my cup of tea, man. 16:04:52 Nailed down in one spot, for eight and a half hours every day? 16:06:06 So the holiday is well-timed; I'll be re-charged by the time it's over. 16:21:35 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:21:51 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host91-236-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 17:53:23 --- join: tabemann (~tabemann@rrcs-162-155-170-75.central.biz.rr.com) joined #forth 18:13:33 --- quit: tabemann (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 18:14:45 --- quit: dave0 (Quit: dave's not here) 19:05:02 --- join: tabemann (~tabemann@2602:30a:c0d3:1890:2db1:4ef6:126b:d5ee) joined #forth 19:22:06 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 19:23:08 --- join: dave0 (~dave@47.44-27-211.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 19:23:53 re 19:26:36 --- join: [1]MrMobius (~default@c-73-134-82-217.hsd1.va.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:29:10 --- quit: MrMobius (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 19:29:10 --- nick: [1]MrMobius -> MrMobius 21:19:55 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 21:20:14 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host91-236-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 21:40:27 --- join: rdrop-exit (~markwilli@112.201.164.82) joined #forth 21:55:43 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@119-46-178-3.static.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 21:55:43 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 22:28:21 --- quit: DKordic (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 23:22:11 --- quit: KipIngram (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23:29:17 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/18.11.15