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03:50:20 <john_cephalopoda> WilhelmVonWeiner: Drawing onto the screen isn't that hard. I should be able to do it some time.
03:56:07 <zy]x[yz> just use a sharpie
04:03:27 <KipIngram> Heh heh.
04:03:40 <KipIngram> The "write once screen."
04:06:46 <dave0> hi KipIngram 
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04:52:31 <KipIngram> Hi dav0.
04:52:36 <KipIngram> How goes?
04:55:17 <dave0> alright... i shouted at my lady friend and kicked her out tonight
04:55:51 <dave0> i feel bad about it
04:58:29 <dave0> KipIngram: how's your day?
04:59:11 <WilhelmVonWeiner> don't feel bad, you probably have your reasons
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05:17:55 <rdrop-exit> Good evening Forthwrights :)
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05:23:41 <Zarutian> rdrop-exit: evening? it is just past noon!
05:23:56 <rdrop-exit> 21:23 here
05:29:53 <WilhelmVonWeiner>  What's up buddy
05:30:00 <WilhelmVonWeiner> how's the forth forthin ya
05:31:27 <rdrop-exit> Hi there, not much Forth-related today. Mostly just chilling.
05:33:35 <john_cephalopoda> Same.
05:34:48 <rdrop-exit> Caught up with CLF and r/Forth
05:34:58 <rdrop-exit> That's about it
05:35:03 <WilhelmVonWeiner> I need a newsreader client
05:35:07 <WilhelmVonWeiner> I always forget about CLF
05:35:43 <rdrop-exit> I just use Google Groups, it's crappy, but it's enough for my needs
05:36:54 <rdrop-exit> Nowadays CLF is the only Usenet group I still check in on regularly
05:37:23 <john_cephalopoda> For RSS/Atom, there is sfeed. I usually use claws-mail though. Thunderbird also does it iirc.
05:39:01 <rdrop-exit> The signal-to-noise ratio on CLF is getting quite bad
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05:41:01 <rdrop-exit> r/Forth is usually more interesting
05:42:06 <rdrop-exit> and the content is easier to read since there's markup
05:42:33 <john_cephalopoda> r/Forth is full of "8th" stuff, which is a proprietary interpreter for a Forth dialect.
05:43:14 <john_cephalopoda> For just $250 you get their Blockchain framework!
05:43:53 <WilhelmVonWeiner> 8th is cool but I shan't use it because it's proprietary
05:44:04 <rdrop-exit> There's other stuf too
05:44:06 <WilhelmVonWeiner> it's a shame too because Ron wrote Reva which is good
05:44:17 <rdrop-exit> *stuff
05:45:28 <rdrop-exit> Never looked into Reva
05:46:02 <rdrop-exit> I'm always happy just doing my own thing, the last Forth I ever bought was HS/Forth
05:47:35 <rdrop-exit> for DOS, that was probably 30 years ago or more
05:47:54 <WilhelmVonWeiner> If i was going to write commercial Forth software I'd get VFX 
05:48:31 <john_cephalopoda> Isn't that the one by the forth.com people?
05:49:02 <john_cephalopoda> Ah, no, that was Swift
05:49:42 <rdrop-exit> SwiftX is Forth Inc, MPE's equivalent is <something>7
05:49:47 <rdrop-exit> I forget
05:49:59 <WilhelmVonWeiner> I don't trust Forth Inc, it seems they've done nothing of note for 30 years? Correct me if I'm wrong
05:51:02 <rdrop-exit> For a SW development tool company to have survived this long is already an achievement
05:51:27 <john_cephalopoda> They released Starting Forth and Thinking Forth.
05:51:34 <rdrop-exit> Not many of the major SW tool companies are still around
05:52:02 <rdrop-exit> that were around when they started
05:52:05 <john_cephalopoda> Well, ok, that book is from 1981, but it has been updated in 2003 to be ANS.
05:52:34 <rdrop-exit> I'll stick with the last non-ANS version
05:52:43 <rdrop-exit> edition rather
05:53:26 <WilhelmVonWeiner> You know what drives my nuts about ANS
05:53:28 <rdrop-exit> The Second Edition, it was updated for Forth-83
05:53:31 <WilhelmVonWeiner> it's a lot of words
05:53:52 <john_cephalopoda> WilhelmVonWeiner: It doesn't have that many words in CORE.
05:55:26 <john_cephalopoda> I think that the File extension isn't great. They should have kept closer to the POSIX naming.
05:56:10 <john_cephalopoda> And FS navigation is really lacking.
05:57:08 <rdrop-exit> I haven't looked at the filesystem related words
05:57:42 <rdrop-exit> I don't think the standard needs them
05:59:52 <john_cephalopoda> Everything is a file in *nix systems. Having methods to handle files would make it possible to do about anything on *nix systems.
06:00:23 <WilhelmVonWeiner> so do you want a Forth OS
06:00:28 <WilhelmVonWeiner> or a Forth on a UNIX OS?
06:00:42 <WilhelmVonWeiner> because gforth, ciforth, Retro etc do file access
06:01:00 <john_cephalopoda> gforth uses the ANS words for file access.
06:02:46 <john_cephalopoda> A Forth OS that follows the "everything is a file" approach would be nice. No need for many words, only file manipulation and directory changes are needed. In addition to that, it would run well on top of any *nix.
06:03:26 <rdrop-exit> All that's needed is a C library interfacing standard, they should just do that and be done with it.
06:04:10 <rdrop-exit> That would take care of current and future OS interfacing needs.
06:05:24 <rdrop-exit> It doesn't make sense for them to keep coming up with words that are just thin wrappers on existing C functions, it'll never end.
06:11:17 <rdrop-exit> There should focus more on making Forth's traditional strengths available in a standard way.
06:15:17 <WilhelmVonWeiner> yep
06:16:55 <rdrop-exit> :-)
06:21:00 <rdrop-exit> Gotta take the dogs for they're evening walk. Look forward to chatting again soon.
06:21:07 <rdrop-exit> *their
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07:31:20 <KipIngram> dave0: The day sucks so far.  Had car issues on the way to work; had to leave the car in a parking lot along the way and take and Uber in.
07:31:35 <KipIngram> Normally I would have just focused on the car and worked remotely, but there are these damn meetings all week.
07:31:55 <dave0> bummer :-(
07:33:19 <Zarutian> KipIngram: what are those meetings generally about?
07:33:36 <KipIngram> these are special and I can't really say.
07:33:57 <KipIngram> Most of my routine meetings about current open issues and stuff like that I do by phone.
07:37:22 <TheCephalopod> Ok, so a standard for interfacing with C libraries.
07:40:42 <Zarutian> TheCephalopod: what for? just port them.
07:41:38 <TheCephalopod> Zarutian: All libraries would have to be ported for that. That's too much work.
07:43:09 <Zarutian> TheCephalopod: hmm... yes but then you can be sure of the quality of those libraries.
07:44:06 <TheCephalopod> There is an OS beneath most Forth systems.
07:44:19 <TheCephalopod> One written in C or C++.
07:44:39 <TheCephalopod> To do anything useful, you'll have to use syscalls.
07:45:25 <Zarutian> TheCephalopod: most? Hell, most Forths I have seen run on bare metal and not the usual x86 arch.
07:46:04 <Zarutian> TheCephalopod: so use the syscall numbers and SYSENTER or what have you.
07:46:53 <TheCephalopod> When you run on top of an OS, having something like sockets and openssl available sure is useful.
07:47:14 <TheCephalopod> Welp.
07:48:36 <Zarutian> TheCephalopod: you can open bi-directional files yes? and in some forths have the accesses callback/event driven. So open an bidirectional one to openssl causing it to be instanciated in a process.
07:50:27 <TheCephalopod> Hmm,
07:50:36 <TheCephalopod> kinda works.
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07:51:07 <TheCephalopod> All in all I just want to have some nice OS written in Forth with all the tools and programs one would need.
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07:51:52 <Zarutian> so port those C libs to Forth or write an C to Forth converter. Otherwise your "Forth OS" isnt written in Forth.
07:52:45 <TheCephalopod> I am planning to write things from scratch in Forth.
07:53:18 <TheCephalopod> I just thought that it would be nice if I could port that OS to run on top of an other OS without much modification.
07:53:22 <TheCephalopod> Anyway.
07:53:59 <TheCephalopod> Is there really no actively developed Forth OS?
07:54:51 <Zarutian> not for x86 or such machines. Plenty for the embedded world. One example, of the top of me head, is mecrisp
07:55:08 <WilhelmVonWeiner> mecrisp is great
07:55:13 <WilhelmVonWeiner> avrforth
07:55:30 <WilhelmVonWeiner> krue's `avr` is an assembler, `avrforth` is a Forth
07:56:42 <Zarutian> sevral questions arise regarding what is meant by Forth OS. Is there seperation of address spaces per each process/task? And probably many more.
07:57:46 <WilhelmVonWeiner> Zarutian: They called that multiprogrammed I think. Read it in Starting Forth 
07:58:00 <Zarutian> WilhelmVonWeiner: the atmel avr risc core design is pretty ameniable to assembler code written in 'forthy' style.
07:58:10 <TheCephalopod> Multitasking would be kinda neat. The OS layer could use timer interrupts for that.
07:58:39 <Zarutian> WilhelmVonWeiner: yeah, and if it is just cooperative or preemptive task switching.
07:58:49 <TheCephalopod> Having separate address spaces between applications would also make a lot of sense.
07:59:11 <Zarutian> TheCephalopod: that is how preemptive task switching is done on OSes today: timer interrupts.
07:59:43 <TheCephalopod> Since ! and @ are the only commands that access memory, it would be trivial to check bounds in real mode or on µCs without MPU.
08:00:11 <WilhelmVonWeiner> Ciforth has the CO word, for kinda-coroutines, and I remember reading an article about round-robin multitasking implemented on the outer interpreter.
08:00:13 <Zarutian> TheCephalopod: then there is the question if the design is monolithic kernel or micro kernel.
08:00:40 <TheCephalopod> I feel like monolithic might be the best choice.
08:00:44 <TheCephalopod> Or at least the easiest.
08:00:46 <Zarutian> TheCephalopod: not only do bounds check but seemless relocation too!
08:01:14 <TheCephalopod> Zarutian: Right, that would also work great.
08:01:51 <WilhelmVonWeiner> Microkernel would probably be easier.
08:02:04 <TheCephalopod> What would the syscalls be?
08:02:06 <Zarutian> then there is the question if you are going to go the old cut down multics or unix way of access control for running programs or look into how it is done in KeyKos and its decendants.
08:02:15 <WilhelmVonWeiner> Read the MINIX book
08:02:43 <Zarutian> the syscalls would probably be the smallest possible set to do fast message passing.
08:03:16 <Zarutian> TheCephalopod: you might want to look into how seL4 is designed in rough outline.
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08:03:33 <TheCephalopod> Actually looking at that right now. ~7-12 syscalls...
08:04:06 <TheCephalopod> WilhelmVonWeiner: I read bad things about the MINIX book.
08:05:32 <WilhelmVonWeiner> from who? Gates?
08:07:03 * Zarutian notes that context switching on x86 has always be atrociously slow and costly.
08:07:03 <TheCephalopod> Amazon reviews and other sources.
08:08:19 <TheCephalopod> bbiab
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08:08:56 <WilhelmVonWeiner> I mean on Amazon it has 4.5 stars and no reviews under 4 stars
08:10:16 <WilhelmVonWeiner> Amazon US has a handful of negative reviews but none of the people sound like I would take them seriously
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08:47:35 <john_cephalopoda> Back
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09:35:51 <pointfree> https://hub.darcs.net/pointfree/forth-sixel-paint/raw-file/paint.4th
09:41:18 <john_cephalopoda> Unfortunately I haven't got a term that supports Sixels.
09:42:10 <WilhelmVonWeiner> pointfree: I like your Forth style. Any reason why you don't indent definitions, post-word? Could make it easier to read
09:43:56 <pointfree> WilhelmVonWeiner: Like `: WORDNAME<indent>` ?
09:44:01 <WilhelmVonWeiner> yeah
10:31:36 <pointfree> WilhelmVonWeiner: Single-line defs are more ergonomic to yank in vim. Sometimes I do like to align the non-punctuation part of word names flush to the right http://ix.io/1rT9 in rpn languages such as forth.
10:31:36 <pointfree> I just leave enough space after the colon to accommodate the longest word name.
10:44:48 <WilhelmVonWeiner> ahh, vim. 
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12:36:31 <Zarutian> pointfree: +pixel turns on a pixel while -pixel turns it off, no?
12:38:12 <pointfree> Zarutian: yeah. xy! sets the coordinate but you need +pixel to actually set the pixel and -pixel to clear it.
12:39:59 <Zarutian> I was a bit mystified how im. works
12:41:03 <Zarutian> but I see that the framebuffer is pretty much a string of sixels
12:43:44 <Zarutian> this just makes bitmap doodles though but it is less than two 'screens' or so in code size.
12:44:04 <Zarutian> now I am wondering how to do colour
12:45:03 <Zarutian> specially as with sixels you need to process each 'colour band' before continuing onto next band of sixels
12:47:44 <Zarutian> hmm... as type ( caddr length -- ) you would need to take w chars from first colour plane then output the control sequences to change which colour index is active and return the 'carage' to the front of the band
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12:54:42 <Zarutian> pointfree: you could add to 'capture' words at the begining of +pixel and -pixel (one 'capture' word prepended to each) to capture the xy coordnates and wether it was the latter or former, to record the scribbles.
12:55:42 <pointfree> Zarutian: maybe a framebuffer with each color periodically interleaved line-by-line rgbrgbrgb...
12:57:15 <Zarutian> colours in sixels are indexed into palettes, so the interleaving would need to be per bitmap band of that particular colour
12:57:56 <Zarutian> you need the 'change which colour index is active and return to start of band' control sequence too
12:58:52 <pointfree> oh right
12:59:52 <Zarutian> which reminds me, I want to port few of the algorithms from the pdf at http://members.chello.at/~easyfilter/bresenham.html into forth.
13:00:25 <Zarutian> but when I am not as pressed for time on other more carriere projects
13:01:26 <Zarutian> heck, : plot ( x y ) xy! +pixel ; might be the sole interface between that and underlying graphix displaying system
13:03:51 <pointfree> It would be really cool to see those drawing algorithms ported.
13:23:30 <john_cephalopoda> pointfree: That stuff is pretty cool.
13:26:56 <Zarutian> until tomorrow, good night folks
13:29:59 <john_cephalopoda> Night, Zarutian 
13:36:04 <john_cephalopoda> pointfree: I don't really get what your code does though, and it may not work properly in my terminal.
13:39:39 <WilhelmVonWeiner> what don't you get?
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13:43:50 <pointfree> john_cephalopoda: which terminal?
14:06:14 <john_cephalopoda> mlterm
14:11:07 <pointfree> john_cephalopoda: mlterm does support sixels and DECELR (mouse locator reports) https://bitbucket.org/arakiken/mlterm/raw/rel-3_8_7/doc/en/ControlSequences
14:12:23 <john_cephalopoda> Well, it reports the mouse locations after I ctrl-c the application
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14:57:44 <crc> The other Makefile & shell build script will also recreate bin/ if needed now
14:57:54 <WilhelmVonWeiner> wrong channel lol.
14:58:09 <zy]x[yz> please ban crc for spam
14:58:52 <zy]x[yz> no cross posting allowed
14:59:45 <pointfree> john_cephalopoda: which forth do you use?
15:00:10 <WilhelmVonWeiner> gonna dump crc into a vat of boiling acid for cross posting
15:00:13 <WilhelmVonWeiner> sorry mate
15:05:35 <crc> oops, sorry :(
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15:07:43 <rdrop-exit> Good morning Forthwrights |-O
15:07:52 <WilhelmVonWeiner> It's 11pm, hellooo
15:08:08 <rdrop-exit> 7:00am
15:08:25 <rdrop-exit> Thursday
15:08:41 <crc> 18:08, Wednesday here
15:09:48 <WilhelmVonWeiner> I have no idea what day it is, I assume wednesday.
15:10:43 <rdrop-exit> crc: US East coast?
15:10:53 <rdrop-exit> Wilhelm: UK?
15:11:42 <WilhelmVonWeiner> Not sure how U you could call it these days, but definitely a K
15:12:49 <rdrop-exit> Need coffee, brb
15:15:13 <rdrop-exit> Espresso, double shot
15:15:27 <rdrop-exit> Mmmm
15:16:38 <WilhelmVonWeiner> nice, very nice
15:17:02 <rdrop-exit> Lavazza Oro
15:17:28 <rdrop-exit> My favorite is Cafe Mauro, but you can't find it in the Philippines AFAIK
15:19:17 <WilhelmVonWeiner> I buy ethiopian beans roasted nearby
15:19:29 <rdrop-exit> Cool
15:19:30 <WilhelmVonWeiner> support a local business, get some floral flavourful coffee
15:25:03 <rdrop-exit> -bounds Convert an address and length to proper bounds for a
15:25:04 <rdrop-exit>         backward stepping loop.
15:25:17 <rdrop-exit> : -bounds ( a # -- lim a' ) `1- over + ;inline
15:27:08 <rdrop-exit> Word of the day
15:27:35 <WilhelmVonWeiner> why is 1- backticked?
15:28:02 <rdrop-exit> I use ` for "under"
15:28:32 <rdrop-exit> i.e. `1- is ,y under1-
15:28:41 <rdrop-exit> *my under1-
15:28:55 <rdrop-exit> That's the naming convention I use
15:29:50 <WilhelmVonWeiner> what's under1-? `swap 1- swap`?
15:29:56 <rdrop-exit> The backtick represents going under the lid
15:30:14 <rdrop-exit> yes that's right, but it's a primitive
15:30:29 <WilhelmVonWeiner> I like that
15:30:56 <rdrop-exit> The backtick makes me think or removing a bottle cap
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15:32:00 <WilhelmVonWeiner> it's an interesting word I might actually define just to use
15:32:12 <WilhelmVonWeiner> even if it'll be slower than your implementation
15:32:22 <rdrop-exit> Cool
15:32:42 <rdrop-exit> split   Distribute the set bits of <x> amongst two cells
15:32:42 <rdrop-exit>         based on <mask>.
15:32:52 <rdrop-exit> : split ( x mask -- x&~mask x&mask ) over andc  tuck xor ;inline
15:33:19 <john_cephalopoda> pointfree: gforth
15:33:32 <john_cephalopoda> (Regarding <pointfree> john_cephalopoda: which forth do you use?)
15:33:44 <WilhelmVonWeiner> `1- == `: _ SWAP ' EXECUTE SWAP ; _ 1-`?
15:36:20 <rdrop-exit> Seems right, although a slow way
15:36:42 <WilhelmVonWeiner> yeah, aint it
15:37:47 <rdrop-exit> reverse Reverse bytes in cell (i.e. endianess).
15:37:55 <rdrop-exit> : reverse ( x -- x' )
15:37:56 <rdrop-exit>   8 rolx  dup 16 rorx  $ ff00 fc16  mux ;inline
15:38:10 <rdrop-exit> (64 bit version)
15:38:46 <rdrop-exit> (assumes Forth has literal folding optimizer)
15:39:39 <KipIngram> Oh, those are interesting looking words.
15:39:42 <rdrop-exit> fc16 fills the entire cell with 16 bits
15:39:46 <KipIngram> I've always found bit manipulations interesting.
15:39:51 <rdrop-exit> Me too
15:39:55 <KipIngram> Hacker's Delight is full of such fun.
15:40:28 <KipIngram> I haven't written anything like that for mine yet, since they're not really needed for the base system.
15:40:31 <rdrop-exit> One of my favorite books, Knuth also has a fascicle on the topic, but HD is better
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15:41:39 <rdrop-exit> {multiple Round down to a multiple of the given power-of-2, i.e.
15:41:39 <rdrop-exit>           beginning of multiple.
15:41:40 <rdrop-exit> multiple} One less than the next multiple of the given
15:41:46 <rdrop-exit> oops
15:42:00 <rdrop-exit> I'll pasted too much, I'll try again
15:42:10 <rdrop-exit> {multiple Round down to a multiple of the given power-of-2, i.e.
15:42:11 <rdrop-exit>           beginning of multiple.
15:42:23 <rdrop-exit> : {multiple ( u pow2 -- u' ) ~mask and ;inline
15:42:34 <rdrop-exit> multiple} One less than the next multiple of the given
15:42:35 <rdrop-exit>           power-of-2, i.e. end of multiple.
15:42:43 <rdrop-exit> : multiple} ( u pow2 -- u' ) mask or ;inline
15:42:54 <rdrop-exit> multiple| Limit of multiple, i.e. the next multiple of the given
15:42:54 <rdrop-exit>           power-of-2.
15:43:02 <rdrop-exit> : multiple| ( u pow2 -- u' ) multiple} 1+ ;inline
15:43:31 <rdrop-exit> The pasting into irssi is acting strange, I must be doing something wrong
15:44:55 <rdrop-exit> mask    Synonym of |1-| to emphasize that we're generating a bit
15:44:55 <rdrop-exit>         mask from a power-of-2.
15:45:05 <rdrop-exit> ~mask   Synonym of |negate| to emphasize that we're generating
15:45:06 <rdrop-exit>         an inverted bit mask from a power-of-2.
15:45:38 <KipIngram> Ah.  Well, I do have a word along those lines "align."
15:45:49 <KipIngram> It rounds UP to the next multiple of the given power of 2.
15:46:02 <KipIngram> Well, I don't provide the parameter as a power of 2 - I provide it as a value.
15:46:07 <KipIngram> But it has to BE a power of 2.
15:46:21 <KipIngram> I use that in (.")
15:46:25 <rdrop-exit> Same here
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15:46:40 <john_cephalopoda> Night
15:46:44 <rdrop-exit> : align ( -- ) cell realign ;inline
15:46:45 <KipIngram> Night John.
15:46:50 <WilhelmVonWeiner> john_cephalopoda: have a good one
15:46:55 <rdrop-exit> : realign ( pow2 -- ) here  swap aligned  dp ! ;inline
15:46:58 <dave0> hi
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15:47:02 <KipIngram> Hi dav0.
15:47:06 <KipIngram> dave0
15:47:15 <dave0> hi KipIngram 
15:47:24 <KipIngram> Just two days to go, then a week off.  :-)
15:47:38 <dave0> ah holidays:-)
15:47:40 <rdrop-exit> Cool
15:47:53 <rdrop-exit> I've been off for nine years now
15:48:00 <KipIngram> This time of year spoils me - it's "holiday rich" for me.
15:48:03 <KipIngram> Good for you, dude.
15:48:09 <KipIngram> I'm looking more and more forward to retiring.
15:48:22 <KipIngram> Then January comes, and I'm like... "Oh."
15:48:28 <KipIngram> "Yeah - work."
15:48:28 <dave0> it's xmas real soon
15:48:58 <WilhelmVonWeiner> how old are you if you don't mind me asking KipIngram 
15:49:00 <rdrop-exit> Xmas season is gridlock in my neighborhood
15:49:10 <rdrop-exit> Many malls
15:49:11 <KipIngram> I'll be 56 in January, WilhelmVonWeiner.
15:49:20 <dave0> my friend complains all year about work, then when he gets 2 weeks off at christmas, by the end of 2 weeks he wants to go bak to work :-p
15:49:30 <KipIngram> I got spoiled in the "old days" - I like working on the other end of the hierarchy better.  :-)
15:49:43 <WilhelmVonWeiner> This is cool young kid forth town now 
15:49:45 <KipIngram> Big fish in small pond --> guppie at IBM
15:49:52 <WilhelmVonWeiner> we smoke menthols and have flip knives
15:49:55 <zy]x[yz> work sucks.  they're always asking me to do things
15:50:02 <WilhelmVonWeiner> watch your back daddyo
15:50:13 <KipIngram> WilhelmVonWeiner: Yes, it is - closures and such.
15:50:28 <rdrop-exit> Menthols, I remember those :-)
15:50:38 <WilhelmVonWeiner> I still can't think of anything a closure does that I would ever want
15:50:53 <KipIngram> That's ok, though - I do pay attention to see if I can pick up any new tricks.
15:51:09 <KipIngram> I haven't either.  But I'm at least monitoring.
15:52:15 <KipIngram> So retirement seems like a fine idea, but on the other hand I don't want to rush 10-12 years of my life by, either.
15:52:34 <KipIngram> A mountain of money seems like it would be the ideal answer.  :-)
15:53:05 <KipIngram> Kids have started moving out, so I have spare bedrooms to pile it in.
15:53:15 <rdrop-exit> You've gotta enjoy each day. My grandfather passed away in his sleep on the very night he retired.
15:53:24 <KipIngram> That one in the storage room on Breaking Bad - that looked just fine.
15:53:37 <KipIngram> ^ right
15:53:37 <WilhelmVonWeiner> rdrop-exit: bloody hell
15:53:42 <WilhelmVonWeiner> that's a right pisser
15:53:44 <KipIngram> That sucks.
15:53:50 <KipIngram> I hear you man.
15:54:06 <KipIngram> I do really enjoy watching my kids wade through life.
15:54:17 <rdrop-exit> Gave me a new perspective on life, it happened when I was only 10 years old.
15:54:20 <KipIngram> Watching the older ones that are on there own may be even more fun that watching them as kids.
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15:54:33 <KipIngram> Ah, impressionable age.
15:54:37 <WilhelmVonWeiner> My granddad died recently and he gave a similar message rdrop-exit 
15:54:50 <WilhelmVonWeiner> my nan's always saying "if he wanted to do something, he just did it"
15:55:02 <rdrop-exit> Great philosophy
15:55:08 <WilhelmVonWeiner> one time they just up and went to france
15:55:30 <WilhelmVonWeiner> nan said it, next day he'd loaded up the car and they were off
15:55:38 <rdrop-exit> Cool
15:56:15 <WilhelmVonWeiner> not so reasonable working 12 hour shifts at a chinese startup i suppose
15:56:26 <rdrop-exit> Yikes
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15:56:50 <WilhelmVonWeiner> you not read the article on that?
15:57:24 <rdrop-exit> No, I thought you were speaking of yourself
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15:57:37 <WilhelmVonWeiner> https://technode.com/2016/10/08/996-china-startup-productivity/
15:57:44 <WilhelmVonWeiner> they call it 9-9-6
15:57:49 <rdrop-exit> Thanks, will check it out
15:59:05 <rdrop-exit> My neighborhood has thousands of Chinese working in the online gambling industry
15:59:55 <rdrop-exit> Most of the online gambling companies have moved outside China, because of their new laws
16:00:28 <WilhelmVonWeiner> they've been cracking down on gambling?
16:00:52 <WilhelmVonWeiner> surprising, I would expect gambling to be culturally big in China
16:00:53 <rdrop-exit> Yes
16:01:36 <rdrop-exit> It is, too many government officials gamble, so they cracked down IIRC
16:02:26 <rdrop-exit> We all of a sudden got a huge influx of the companies here, particularly in my neighborhood
16:03:39 <rdrop-exit> My neighborhood is a major hub for BPO
16:05:06 <rdrop-exit> 24 hours a day
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16:21:36 <rdrop-exit> Paper comparing truncated, floored, and Euclidean division operators:
16:21:52 <rdrop-exit> Division and Modulus for Computer Scientists
16:21:53 <rdrop-exit>  Daan Leijen, Dec 3, 2001
16:42:27 <rdrop-exit> The less comman stack operators:
16:42:36 <rdrop-exit> lift ( x1 x2 -- x1 x1 x2 )
16:42:48 <rdrop-exit> spin  ( x1..x3 -- x3 x2 x1 )
16:42:58 <rdrop-exit> swish ( x1..x3 -- x2 x1 x3 )
16:43:24 <WilhelmVonWeiner> a lot of operators
16:44:31 <rdrop-exit> They sometimes come in handy, but not very often
16:46:13 <rdrop-exit> xchg ( x1 -- x2 )(r: x2 -- x1 )
16:46:24 <rdrop-exit> brb
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