00:00:00 --- log: started forth/18.09.05
00:06:39 <yunfan> dave9: 
00:19:14 <dave9> hi yunfan 
00:37:46 <yunfan> dave9: hi 
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01:21:24 <john_metcalf> I'll be at the Retro Computer Festival in Cambridge on 15th September if anyone else is planning to go http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/43210/Retro-Computer-Festival-2018-15th-16th-September/
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07:00:59 <Zarutian> https://tinyletter.com/jamesbowman/letters/upduino-a-9-99-fpga <- perhaps a semi good FPGA to play around with to implement your own dual stack machine
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08:16:59 <unrznbl[m]> Zarutian: i just got one of those. Started working on porting the raspberry pi programming method to linux/c.h.i.p.
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08:39:17 <Zarutian> unrznbl[m]: what is the raspberry pi programming method?
09:43:59 <WilhelmVonWeiner> john_metcalf: Interesting
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16:44:46 <Guest23783> Hi
16:45:02 <Guest23783> I am trying to run a simple program.
16:45:26 <Guest23783> Could u guys help me out?
16:45:34 <KipIngram> I'll give it a look see.
16:46:26 <Guest23783> It's intended to read two numbers and do some operations on them.
16:46:38 <Guest23783> This is what I came up with: https://privatebin.net/?bfdf4ebdc53f07a0#vibH6KIRGIT1qjwwy8KzSqSSAdU5CxwcR+NakqZsj0c=
16:46:43 <KipIngram> Ok.  One sec.
16:47:11 <KipIngram> You need spaces after your ." words.
16:47:23 <KipIngram> But not before the closing quotes.
16:47:56 <KipIngram> I'm not really sure why you have some of that in there.
16:48:10 <KipIngram> Tell me what this line is supposed to do:
16:48:12 <KipIngram> s. n1 n2 +.
16:49:05 <KipIngram> If n1 and n2 are variables, then n1 n2 + . (with all the words space-separated!) would add the ADDRESSES of n1 and n2 and print that sum.
16:49:11 <KipIngram> To add the numbers themselves you want
16:49:15 <KipIngram> n1 @ n2 @ + .
16:49:36 <KipIngram> And I don't know what your s. at the beginning of that is supposed to print - I guess I'd expect it to take an address from the stack and print a string from that ddress.
16:49:38 <Guest23783> Add them.
16:49:45 <Guest23783> And display.
16:49:48 <KipIngram> But I don't see that you got an address onto the stack for s. to use.
16:50:08 <KipIngram> What are you expecting @n1 and @n2 to do?
16:50:49 <Guest23783> To sum them and show on the screen.
16:51:41 <KipIngram> Well, those aren't standard Forth words.  You could name a word @n1 or @n2 if you wanted to, but you'd have to give a definition for those.
16:51:47 <KipIngram> Definitions, rather.
16:51:59 <KipIngram> Your biggest problem is that you don't have spaces in many places that you need them.
16:52:08 <KipIngram> Forth words have to be space-separated from one another.
16:52:22 <Guest23783> I see, so this "@" works as a dereference.
16:52:45 <KipIngram> Yes - @ expects an address on the stack - it consumes that address and replaces it (on the stack) with the contents of that address.
16:52:58 <KipIngram> It doesn't operate on a variable name, though.
16:53:12 <KipIngram> you would put numbers into n1 and n2 with <number> n1 ! and <number> n2 !
16:53:31 <KipIngram> Then you can fetch the numbers with    n1 @   or   n2 @
16:53:46 <KipIngram> So n1 @ n2 @ + . will print their sum.
16:54:07 <KipIngram> n1 @ n2 @ / . would print the quotient, etc.
16:54:26 <KipIngram> Words like + and / and other such operators operate exclusively on the stack.
16:54:38 <KipIngram> They don't care how the numbers on the stack got there.
16:55:35 <KipIngram> When you define a word with VARIABLE (e.g., variable n1 ) that creates a dictionary entry bearing that name and allocates one cell of storage associated with it.
16:55:48 <KipIngram> Executing that word name (n1 or n2) places the address of that allocated cell on the stack.
16:56:38 <KipIngram> Aside from your missing spaces, an a misunderstanding about how @ works, the remaining problem is the s.
16:56:45 <KipIngram> I don't see that you've given anything for it to work on.
16:57:04 <KipIngram> Maybe you thought it was need to print the result of the stuff you typed after it?
16:57:12 <KipIngram> The . word prints the number that's on top of the stack.
16:57:30 <Guest23783> Exactly that.
16:57:30 <KipIngram> I think that's the only printing operations you need aside from your "section labeling" ." sequences.
16:58:09 <KipIngram> Ok, so put the spaces in, use <number> <variable name> ! to store numbers in the variables, use <variable name> @ to get the numbers onto the top of the stack, and get rid of the s.
16:58:15 <KipIngram> I think you'll have something that will run then.
16:58:20 <KipIngram> And welcome to Forth.  :-)
17:01:11 <Guest23783> Thanks mate. =D
17:01:35 <Guest23783> Just did. I have to run to the supermarket now, soon I will be back.
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18:23:00 <Guest23783> I'm back.
18:23:58 <Guest23783> It stayed like this: https://privatebin.net/?6a312cc613b78c3e#sTVWec5taBvUL3F8IMBKQJIjo9b1pPJ6cutPzZW46Lo=
18:24:17 <Guest23783> But it gives me the following error: https://privatebin.net/?6d2117d83daf37da#uEePVpWrb+c+9DKzVOmJ6H19ZH+6kdgk4xS9dWm3+7I=
18:27:45 <crc> you'll need a space between the + and the .
18:28:41 <Guest23783> Oh, there too. 
18:31:42 <crc> something like https://privatebin.net/?c1fb9c1aa2ce5778#nKb740rYAgn9gFIdSNZhrnU6gG7VvNo8ZOL3pUEfnzk= (/. to / . and some fixes in the ? word)
18:34:28 <crc> https://privatebin.net/?041c066155e1a5fc#jOywa3fVeJsyvBzJNyF/aDprc/GLPxoEMjUw0FL/q8M= (more fixes to ? - need to use @ to get the values in n1 and n2)
18:34:53 <Guest23783> It works o/
18:35:08 <Guest23783> Thank you @crc
18:37:33 <Guest23783> Do u know if it's possible to do operations on more than two numbers at a time?
18:39:18 <Guest23783> I mean, multiple operations. Like (a + b - (a * b))/3
18:40:06 <Guest23783> It still just two numbers anyways.
18:43:19 <Guest23783> Nevermind, found another way to do it.
18:43:46 <Guest23783> Just one more doubt.
18:44:28 <crc> There's a formula translator for forth at http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/551.jvn.fall01/programs.htm (I've never used it, translating to rpn is pretty straightforward)
18:44:39 <Guest23783> How would I replace the hard coded numbers by runtime input?
18:45:31 <Guest23783> That is handy, thanks. I'm gonna keep it.
18:47:11 <Guest23783> I saw that "accept" is used for strings only.
18:50:38 <crc> I'm not sure the best way to do this
18:57:44 <Guest23783> Ok.
18:58:57 <crc> this works in gforth: 
18:59:09 <crc> : get-number pad 80 accept pad swap s>number drop ;
19:02:50 <crc> s>number isn't a standard word though. 
19:03:44 <Guest23783> I got this error: https://privatebin.net/?e58bd73c07dc66db#6/0cQGuRrchb0YVvyQ2leLQIuji1tHqTM+VD9XTdjs0=
19:04:01 <Guest23783> I switched the "number" part to the variable name.
19:04:35 <crc> did you have the : before the get-number?
19:04:36 <Guest23783> Was I wrong on that assumption?
19:04:57 <crc> yes
19:05:27 <crc> s>number is a word in gforth that converts a string into a number
19:06:24 <Guest23783> I hadn't placed but I added it now.
19:06:37 <KipIngram> Guest23783: You find, in general, in Forth that you need to explicitly do things that are done "automagically for you" in many other languages.
19:07:00 <Guest23783> I see, could I combine it with a "!" to do an assignment.
19:07:04 <KipIngram> Like in other languages you "tell the compiler" that you want string-to-number conversion simply by asking to input a variable that is of a number type.
19:07:08 <KipIngram> The compiler puts it all together for you.
19:07:16 <KipIngram> In for you tack it all together yourself.
19:07:23 <crc> get-number n1 !
19:07:24 <Guest23783> KipIngram: True man, but that is very interesting, may I say.
19:08:04 <KipIngram> I think so too.  You could consider having to do that stuff "manually" a burden, I guess, but on the other hand it gives you full control over everything that happens.
19:08:38 <KipIngram> There's a kind of satisfaction in knowing that a word does exactly the same thing every time.
19:09:58 <crc> : getn pad 80 accept >r 0. pad r> >number 2drop drop ;
19:10:20 <crc> this one should work on any ANS compliant Forth
19:15:36 <Guest23783> KipIngram: No burden at all, it is freedom. 
19:18:31 <Guest23783> crc: That will convert what is in the stack or the input?
19:19:09 <crc> this reads input from the keyboard and returns a number
19:19:21 <KipIngram> returns the number on the stack.
19:20:36 <Guest23783> And how would I take that value?
19:21:43 <crc> the number is left on the stack. You could use ! to store it in a variable, or just pass it to another word
19:23:56 <Guest23783> I guess I could use a "pop" in here.?
19:24:35 <crc> what do you mean by "pop" ?
19:29:25 <Guest23783> To take that stack value and reference it with a keyword, like a variable.
19:30:05 <KipIngram> You mean "store it"?
19:30:10 <KipIngram> In the variable?
19:30:22 <Guest23783> Exactly.
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19:31:08 <KipIngram> ! is the Forth word that does that.  You've got that number on the stack, you say <address> !
19:31:17 <KipIngram> Afterward both the number and the address are gone.
19:31:46 <KipIngram> <address> can come about in any way - you can type in a literal numeric address, you can execute a word defined by VARIABLE, do some calculation, or whatever.
19:31:58 <KipIngram> Where it came from doesn't matter.
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19:46:14 <Guest23783> I tried this: https://privatebin.net/?2184b73d8de56186#j5L7BDaRrO9hRfLf2LfoLDCLMIbSfVr4sEAy3qywvF0=
19:46:45 <Guest23783> It didn't gave an error. But it didn't read the input either.
19:46:54 <Guest23783> That was the result: https://privatebin.net/?e7e934a8103c7630#fzyF8bw6NzjoMCWsSc3QQYHh6kpxj6nZVR+kNADhQ90=
19:48:18 <Guest23783> Do I need to make it wait?
19:48:25 <crc> https://privatebin.net/?b9ebe10e9f5eb204#65reu+69wl2TK2BzVDzU25ccSOs66JaFrS7gJ4QeM8o=
19:51:38 <crc> `getn` is a word thatmcanmbe reused. When called it'll read input into `pad` (a standard Forth buffer), convert the input to a number, and leave it on the stack
19:52:21 <crc> so `getn n1 !` to read a number and store it into `n1`
19:53:31 <crc> `pad n1 !` stores the address of `pad` in `n1`, which isn't what you want for this
19:53:37 <Guest23783> I see. 
19:53:50 <Guest23783> That definition looks similar to a macro.
19:55:37 <KipIngram> A macro would behave as though you had the content literally "inserted" everywhere you use it.
19:55:44 <KipIngram> The : before and ; after make it a "definition."
19:55:58 <KipIngram> The system makes a list of addresses that tell it where to find the words inside the definition.
19:56:17 <KipIngram> Then when you use the word it "steps through" that list of definitions, executing each component word in turn.
19:56:29 <KipIngram> So it's more like "deffing" a function in Python.
19:57:56 <Guest23783> I can understand it now.
19:58:09 <Guest23783> Thanks guys. That stuff is amazing.
19:58:28 <KipIngram> :-)
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20:01:33 <Guest23783> See ya. Take care. ^^
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