00:00:00 --- log: started forth/18.08.21 00:51:31 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 00:58:30 --- join: ncv (~neceve@2a02:c7d:c5c9:a900:6eaf:6ef7:3b81:d5f6) joined #forth 00:58:30 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 00:58:30 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 01:58:23 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 01:58:48 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host84-235-dynamic.181-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 02:03:22 --- quit: ashirase (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 02:03:52 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 02:04:10 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host84-235-dynamic.181-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 02:06:35 --- join: ashirase (~ashirase@modemcable098.166-22-96.mc.videotron.ca) joined #forth 03:05:48 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 03:42:28 --- quit: tusj (Remote host closed the connection) 04:03:15 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 04:03:38 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host84-235-dynamic.181-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 04:58:13 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 04:59:55 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@host86-144-19-142.range86-144.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 05:04:23 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 05:09:31 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 05:09:47 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host84-235-dynamic.181-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 05:30:23 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 05:30:43 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host84-235-dynamic.181-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 05:38:03 --- quit: mark4 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 06:17:29 reepca, zy]x[yz: In Sam Falvo's bspl forth he puts a literal pool at the ends of the words https://github.com/KestrelComputer/kestrel/blob/master/software/src/bspl/ 06:18:25 He also mentioned using nano-passes instead of a single pass https://www.cs.indiana.edu/~dyb/pubs/nano-jfp.pdf 07:17:42 that's cool but I guess my feeling is that once you abandon the literal nature of forth and start building something more abstract, you might as well be using a real language like c 08:46:05 zy]x[yz: C isnt a real language. It is a toy programming language targetting PDP-11's 08:48:19 --- quit: malyn (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 08:48:36 --- join: malyn (~malyn@unaffiliated/malyn) joined #forth 08:59:00 --- join: TCZ (~Johnny@ip-91.189.219.177.skyware.pl) joined #forth 09:26:54 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-105-99.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 09:31:09 --- quit: ncv (Remote host closed the connection) 09:31:29 --- join: ncv (~neceve@2a02:c7d:c5c9:a900:6eaf:6ef7:3b81:d5f6) joined #forth 09:31:30 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 09:31:30 --- join: ncv (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 09:39:29 That article on nanopass compiling seems pretty good. That does seem like a good way to understand the process, though my very first thought was that it might result in slower compile speeds. 09:42:59 --- quit: TCZ (Quit: Leaving) 09:46:48 --- quit: Zarutian (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:46:58 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@173-133-17-89.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:48:42 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 09:49:00 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host84-235-dynamic.181-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 10:03:48 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 10:04:12 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host84-235-dynamic.181-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 10:11:07 < Zarutian> zy]x[yz: C isnt a real language. 10:11:25 I think that's a delusional perspective, but each to his own 10:12:11 No, I am not being delusional. C isnt a real language. A real language is fully specified 10:12:30 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 10:12:35 according to who? 10:12:50 that is, doesnt have "undefined behaviour" crap 10:13:04 if your argument is going to be on the semantics of "real language," what authority are using for your definition of real? 10:16:52 basically that there exists a full unambigious specification of the damn thing. Something that a compile writer can use as semantic bases of their compiler without having to guess 10:18:43 yes I understand that you have that complaint about c 10:22:09 --- join: mark4 (~mark4@168.244.10.50) joined #forth 10:24:09 --- join: jedb (~jedb@199.66.90.209) joined #forth 10:31:40 --- quit: mark4 (Quit: Leaving) 10:32:33 I do admit that saying "real language" was probably sort of incendiary and a bad choice of words on my part 10:33:35 and I didn't have to use c as an example. replace that with ocaml or whatever is your favorite high level language if you want 10:35:10 the point is that I don't see the point in trying to turn forth into more than what it is. To me, at least, it seems that the draw of forth is in its dead simplicity to the point that it's easy for a human to predict how what they write is represented in memory 10:35:35 and that's a thing that I struggle with as I build my forth, so maybe I'm wrong about that and if so then I'd love to hear a counter point 10:37:09 (that thing that I struggle with being that I'm often torn between nice features and maintaining absolute simplicity, that is) 10:39:55 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 10:40:41 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-122-238.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 10:46:11 https://www.reddit.com/r/Forth/comments/995aa6/svfig_2018_july_28_presentation_bspl_a_crude_yet/ 10:46:49 --- quit: ncv (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 10:49:20 zy]x[yz: oh, right. Yeah I look at Forth as an bare metal language that you can bootstrap from level of assembler to something a bit above C. But above that? Use it as an runtime implementation language. 10:58:17 KipIngram: C, Rust, Haskell, etc are fast largely because they offload a lot onto the compiler. Forth can't afford to do that because compilers are used during normal run-time... 10:58:43 ... So the way to get good performance is to do less unnecessary stuff. The granularity of the nanopass compilers over the monolithic single pass compiler seems like a good way to achieve that. 11:11:02 pointfree: hmm... yeah I have heard the "sufficiently smart compiler" quip quite a few time regarding programming language design. 11:21:50 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 11:22:10 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host84-235-dynamic.181-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 11:29:50 sufficiently smart compiler will listen demands via microphone and craft a program suited to needs of the person speaking 11:37:52 --- quit: z0d (*.net *.split) 11:42:19 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:42:35 --- quit: jimt[m] (*.net *.split) 11:42:35 --- quit: sigjuice (*.net *.split) 11:43:39 --- join: jimt[m] (jimtmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-uypuuirbjhdehffh) joined #forth 11:45:50 --- quit: malyn (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 11:48:18 --- join: malyn (~malyn@unaffiliated/malyn) joined #forth 11:48:21 --- join: z0d (~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d) joined #forth 11:48:29 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 11:48:34 --- join: sigjuice (~sigjuice@107.170.193.86) joined #forth 11:48:46 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host84-235-dynamic.181-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 11:56:24 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 11:56:43 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host84-235-dynamic.181-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 12:07:00 --- join: NB0X-Matt-CA (~nonlinear@unaffiliated/discrttm) joined #forth 12:21:56 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 12:22:13 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host84-235-dynamic.181-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 12:31:39 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 12:31:48 --- join: [X-Scale] (~ARM@83.223.241.121) joined #forth 12:32:30 --- join: pierpa (50b5eb54@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.181.235.84) joined #forth 12:33:11 --- nick: [X-Scale] -> X-Scale 12:34:22 --- quit: mietek (*.net *.split) 12:34:23 --- quit: ecraven (*.net *.split) 12:34:29 --- join: mietek (mietek@irc.mietek.io) joined #forth 12:34:45 --- join: ecraven (ecraven@www.nexoid.at) joined #forth 12:34:57 --- quit: mietek (Changing host) 12:34:57 --- join: mietek (mietek@unaffiliated/mietek) joined #forth 12:39:06 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-112-91.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 12:39:32 --- quit: zy]x[yz (*.net *.split) 12:39:32 --- quit: dave0 (*.net *.split) 12:39:32 --- quit: lf94 (*.net *.split) 12:39:33 --- quit: koisoke (*.net *.split) 12:39:33 --- quit: yunfan (*.net *.split) 12:39:33 --- quit: diginet2 (*.net *.split) 12:39:35 --- part: dys left #forth 12:39:39 --- join: koisoke_ (xef4@epilogue.org) joined #forth 12:39:40 --- join: lf94 (~lf94@138.197.174.95) joined #forth 12:39:57 --- join: zy]x[yz (~corey@c-76-97-179-143.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:39:58 --- join: dave0 (~dave@90.20.215.218.dyn.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 12:40:06 --- quit: lf94 (Changing host) 12:40:06 --- join: lf94 (~lf94@unaffiliated/lf94) joined #forth 12:41:08 --- join: yunfan (~roooot@73.224.199.104.bc.googleusercontent.com) joined #forth 12:42:04 --- quit: zy]x[yz (Changing host) 12:42:04 --- join: zy]x[yz (~corey@unaffiliated/cmtptr) joined #forth 12:42:19 --- quit: malyn (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:43:22 --- quit: yunfan (Changing host) 12:43:22 --- join: yunfan (~roooot@unaffiliated/yunfan) joined #forth 12:43:26 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-112-91.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 12:48:16 --- join: diginet2 (~diginet@107.170.146.29) joined #forth 12:48:45 --- join: malyn (~malyn@unaffiliated/malyn) joined #forth 13:15:00 --- join: dzho_ (~dzho@tsuga.etrumeus.com) joined #forth 13:15:02 --- quit: dzho_ (Changing host) 13:15:03 --- join: dzho_ (~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 13:15:35 --- join: Labmik (~Labu@labu.pck.nerim.net) joined #forth 13:19:49 --- quit: dddddd (*.net *.split) 13:19:49 --- quit: Labu (*.net *.split) 13:19:50 --- quit: dzho (*.net *.split) 13:24:28 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 14:54:11 I am strapped for reading time at the moment 14:54:24 can someone explain nanopass compiling in two lines or less 14:58:56 are there limits on the length of the lines? 15:15:29 --- nick: dzho_ -> dzho 15:17:40 --- quit: dzho (Quit: leaving) 15:17:50 --- join: dzho (~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 15:53:05 --- quit: Keshl (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 16:04:33 --- join: Keshl (~Purple@24.115.185.149.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 16:32:47 --- quit: zy]x[yz (Quit: leaving) 16:41:49 --- join: zy]x[yz (~corey@unaffiliated/cmtptr) joined #forth 16:52:50 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 17:13:00 --- join: dave9 (~dave@90.20.215.218.dyn.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 17:14:35 hi 18:20:56 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) joined #forth 18:39:39 --- quit: dave9 (Quit: one love) 18:41:24 --- quit: yunfan (Quit: already be with hell) 18:41:40 --- join: yunfan (~roooot@unaffiliated/yunfan) joined #forth 19:14:37 --- quit: pierpa (Quit: Page closed) 19:46:29 --- quit: dddddd (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 19:59:31 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 20:24:18 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 20:40:30 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 20:52:39 --- join: epony (~epony@unaffiliated/epony) joined #forth 21:17:25 --- join: proteus-guy (~proteusgu@2403:6200:88a6:329f:f83e:6a76:1ed:e9df) joined #forth 21:24:04 --- join: smokeink (~smokeink@185.232.86.79) joined #forth 23:45:02 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 23:45:49 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-081-30.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/18.08.21