00:00:00 --- log: started forth/18.06.29 00:03:23 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 00:15:14 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@2403:6200:88a6:d26d:2dc8:d2ab:bf9d:a4b5) joined #forth 00:15:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 00:36:22 --- quit: Keshl (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00:36:43 --- join: Keshl (~Purple@24.115.185.149.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 01:13:23 --- quit: tusj (Remote host closed the connection) 01:15:17 --- quit: ThirtyOne32nds (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 01:33:43 --- join: dave9 (~dave@207.213.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 01:34:34 hi 02:01:43 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 02:09:30 --- join: mtsd (~mtsd@77.110.61.100) joined #forth 02:40:10 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 03:02:59 --- join: ncv_ (~neceve@2a02:c7d:c5c9:a900:c1c7:50c:8461:8572) joined #forth 03:02:59 --- quit: ncv_ (Changing host) 03:02:59 --- join: ncv_ (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 03:14:31 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: Leaving) 03:18:28 --- join: mtsd (~mtsd@77.110.61.100) joined #forth 03:21:13 --- join: ThirtyOne32nds (~rtmanpage@117.sub-174-204-20.myvzw.com) joined #forth 03:43:17 --- quit: djinni (Quit: Leaving) 03:43:32 Hi Dave. 03:43:43 How's your evening? 03:44:17 hi KipIngram 03:44:27 just watching some videos :-) 03:44:29 you? 03:44:47 Very early here. Still mainlining coffee. 03:45:07 I'll haul myself up and get moving in 10-15 minutes or so. 03:45:31 are you working today? 03:45:50 Yes; Friday. But I have next week off. 03:46:00 ah cool 03:55:01 --- join: djinni (~djinni@68.ip-149-56-14.net) joined #forth 04:10:57 --- quit: proteus-guy (Remote host closed the connection) 04:11:53 --- join: proteus-guy (~proteus-g@cm-134-196-84-82.revip18.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 04:28:02 --- quit: mtsd (Quit: Leaving) 04:35:48 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 04:36:07 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host45-58-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 05:41:44 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 05:42:04 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host45-58-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 05:48:47 --- quit: dave9 (Quit: one love) 06:19:51 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 06:20:07 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host45-58-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 06:40:39 --- join: danilo1 (~danilo@danilo-desktop.zdv.uni-mainz.de) joined #forth 06:40:59 --- part: danilo1 left #forth 06:41:39 --- quit: tadni_ (Remote host closed the connection) 06:45:23 --- quit: proteus-guy (Remote host closed the connection) 07:16:47 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 08:31:27 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 08:31:43 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host45-58-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 08:57:15 --- join: tadni_ (~tadni@71-11-142-172.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) joined #forth 09:10:07 --- quit: WilhelmVonWeiner (*.net *.split) 09:10:07 --- quit: lf94 (*.net *.split) 09:14:32 --- join: WilhelmVonWeiner (dch@ny1.hashbang.sh) joined #forth 09:14:33 --- join: lf94 (~lf94@unaffiliated/lf94) joined #forth 09:18:05 --- quit: M-jimt (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 09:18:14 --- quit: bb010g (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 09:18:21 --- quit: pointfree1 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 09:27:02 --- quit: MrMobius (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:27:50 --- join: MrMobius (~default@c-73-134-82-217.hsd1.va.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:29:24 --- join: proteus-guy (~proteus-g@cm-134-196-84-26.revip18.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 09:31:48 --- quit: zy]x[yz (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 10:06:21 --- join: bb010g (bb010gmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-izzwpeeyvnupjoxf) joined #forth 10:31:55 --- quit: karswell_ (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 10:33:38 --- join: karswell_ (~user@89.39.107.205) joined #forth 10:51:25 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 10:57:22 --- join: M-jimt (jimtmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gntyaujjbcpiljar) joined #forth 10:57:22 --- join: pointfree1 (pointfreem@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zdruigoqesuavqjf) joined #forth 11:05:33 --- join: zy]x[yz (~corey@unaffiliated/cmtptr) joined #forth 11:18:31 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 11:20:32 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 11:21:39 lol I think we've all tried (?) the bare metal forth at some point. I had one almost working under qemu but I messed up the inner interpreter somehow and words didn't quite work as expected. the forthos project never booted successfully for me so i rolled my own boot and keyboard and screen i/o and tried slapping an "upgraded" version of jonesforth on top - which i think is there i broke things 11:24:56 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 11:25:35 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host45-58-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 11:25:57 forthos booted right up for me, but I imagine that might vary a lot from machine to machine. 11:26:12 I just tried it on some old laptop I had lying around. 11:30:44 The thing is, a bare metal Forth with no network support isn't terribly useful. 11:30:51 Just sort of a toy to play with. 11:33:07 I've an acquaintance over in another channel who's standard thing to throw in my face when I start talking about such things is "Write a fully correct TCP/IP stack and get back to me. I won't hold my breath." 11:34:03 He's the professional computer science guy in our little group, and he enjoy slamming Forth because one of the other guys and I talk about it a good bit from time to time. 11:50:28 --- quit: Keshl (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 11:51:16 Then there's another guy in the group who always says he has no interest in Forth, but he somehow can't seem to suppress his curiosity about it. He seems to find it fascinating. 11:57:45 --- join: Keshl (~Purple@24.115.185.149.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 12:04:10 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 12:04:26 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host45-58-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 12:18:42 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12:18:50 in my experience, the "show me it doing something useful and then I'll be a believer" are usually the worst software devs 12:19:12 they have no self-reflection and make no effort to better themselves or improve their process 12:19:42 I'll almost certainly never do anything useful with forth, but it's definitely provided me with insights that I'm sure will change how I code in the future 12:20:37 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 12:24:02 --- join: reepca (~user@208.89.170.230) joined #forth 12:44:44 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12:45:00 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host45-58-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 12:50:06 Well, that CS guy I mentioned is better than a lot of them. He has a healthy disrespect for "library based" programming, and for people cobbling up solutions out of pieces they get from others and don't understand. 12:50:48 He did a lot of BIOS level type stuff at Dell back in the 80's and 90's. 12:51:52 Seems particularly good at writing code that exposes data integrity issues. 13:18:34 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 13:20:40 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 14:18:07 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 14:19:47 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 14:48:13 --- quit: tadni_ (Remote host closed the connection) 15:04:56 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15:06:42 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 15:25:43 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 15:26:03 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host45-58-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 15:27:06 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 15:29:14 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 15:30:36 --- join: tadni (~tadni@24-182-175-184.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) joined #forth 15:30:57 --- join: tadni_ (~tadni@24-182-175-184.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) joined #forth 15:31:18 --- quit: tadni_ (Remote host closed the connection) 15:33:24 --- quit: Lord_Nightmare (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 15:34:23 --- join: Lord_Nightmare (Lord_Night@unaffiliated/lordnlptp) joined #forth 15:35:27 --- join: pierpa (4f2c3a2d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.44.58.45) joined #forth 15:48:42 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:50:48 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 16:03:43 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 16:04:19 KipIngram: hmm would that guy accept minimal Etherenet frame->IPv4 packet->UDP datagram support? 16:05:13 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 16:05:50 KipIngram: and forth not being usefull well I have debugged a bit of an expensive measuring equipment whose firmware is an Forth system 16:10:11 KipIngram: Its lcd screen had a dead backlight whose xeon bulb part was no longer available. Replaced with a few white light leds. I was also asked to change a bit of an ackward menu, if I could, to be a bit nicer to use 16:11:20 I expected failure due to the usual practice of everything writen in some C variant on an brittle build system 16:13:39 nope, four pogo-pads nearish the JTAG one turned out to be reset, tx, rx and ground. I hooked up a serial terminal to that and got a banner and a forth prompt. 16:15:05 so the hardest part of changing the aforesaid menu was to find out what exactly the customer wanted 16:19:16 --- quit: carc (Quit: QUIT) 16:19:36 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 16:20:44 --- join: carc (~carc@unaffiliated/carc) joined #forth 16:21:07 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 16:22:48 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 16:27:52 Oh, fun. 16:28:18 And yes, I agree Forth can definitely be useful in an embedded system context - one of its best strengths. 16:31:14 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 16:32:59 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 17:15:01 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17:16:50 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 17:24:46 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 17:29:46 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 17:31:54 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 17:44:56 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17:47:17 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 18:21:37 --- quit: tadni (Remote host closed the connection) 18:22:00 --- join: tadni (~tadni@24-182-175-184.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) joined #forth 18:23:49 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host45-58-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 18:32:49 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 18:42:02 --- quit: epony (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 18:45:26 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 18:47:28 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 18:49:20 --- quit: tadni (Remote host closed the connection) 19:15:46 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host45-58-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 19:45:36 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 19:47:27 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 19:54:17 --- quit: fiddlerwoaroof (Quit: Gone.) 20:05:33 --- quit: pierpa (Quit: Page closed) 20:18:56 --- quit: ncv_ (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 20:38:53 --- join: epony (~nym@77-85-141-166.ip.btc-net.bg) joined #forth 20:45:36 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 20:46:33 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 20:46:50 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host45-58-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 20:47:39 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 21:45:56 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 21:47:47 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 22:14:07 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 22:14:26 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host45-58-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 22:46:21 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22:47:57 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 23:10:12 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:11:09 --- quit: pierpal (Remote host closed the connection) 23:12:31 --- join: cheater (~cheater@unaffiliated/cheater) joined #forth 23:18:53 --- quit: ThirtyOne32nds (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 23:23:55 --- quit: pointfree1 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 23:24:18 --- quit: M-jimt (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 23:24:27 --- quit: bb010g (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 23:58:26 --- quit: cheater (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/18.06.29