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#forth 05:55:46 Is it common to implement a forth? 05:55:50 Seems very straight forward 05:57:00 --- quit: pierpal (Quit: Poof) 05:57:24 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host23-9-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 05:58:50 I think it's more common than actually implementing something else with a forth 06:04:11 lol 06:06:01 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 06:09:53 xd 06:17:33 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:18:01 so true :) 06:18:11 --- join: karswell_ (~user@cust125-dsl91-135-5.idnet.net) joined #forth 06:30:51 --- quit: TCZ (Quit: Leaving) 06:44:35 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-114-210.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 06:51:09 --- quit: jedb (Remote host closed the connection) 06:52:18 --- join: jedb (~jedb@199.66.90.209) joined #forth 07:22:45 --- join: rixard (~rixard@h-112-233.A444.priv.bahnhof.se) joined #forth 07:24:27 --- quit: rixard (Client Quit) 07:40:46 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:9441:419f:35b1:686e) joined #forth 07:45:23 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 07:53:28 Heh heh - yes, that describes my relationship with Forth quite well. 07:53:39 lf94: It is very straightforward. 07:53:54 And yet it offers enough scope for "tinkering" that it can just be endless fun. 07:55:57 lol 07:56:14 but customers want web apps! 07:56:48 Life's short - gotta play where the fun is. :-) 07:57:09 I'm not a web guy - I'm an embedded systems guy. I don't have much to offer as far as web apps go. 07:57:34 I guess I could do them, but I'd be mediocre, I think. 08:02:35 I wrote a very basic stack-based language with macros for gameboy 08:03:02 But now I should implement forth for it :) 08:03:26 How do you differentiate between different types of numbers? you dont? 08:03:29 Besides floats 08:03:39 8,16,32,64,n-bit number 08:10:39 You don't really. 08:11:02 Some Forth's support double sized ints; you can enter one by including a decimal point somewhere in the number. 08:11:13 It just puts it on the stack as two integer items. 08:11:23 And then there will be a family of words that know how to work with that. 08:11:44 But that's really about it. There's not even usually a particularly good way to work with strings. 08:11:53 Some add some string words. 08:12:27 But hey, if you're not familiar with how traditional Forth systems are implemented internally, I highly recommend studying that before you write one - you're unlikely to get it right if you go in blind. 08:12:39 I wrote the first Forth I ever wrote "blind" like that. 08:12:57 It worked, but later when I learned how it's usually done I saw how poor mine was. 08:13:17 The "good way" was just so much simpler in so many areas than my guess at it. 08:13:37 There are lots of books for that, but one really good one is "Forth Fundamentals, volume 1" by McCabe. 08:14:04 Volume 2 is handy as well; it provides the definitions of all of the words that are implemented as colon definitions. 08:14:12 Volume 1 is the "guts," though. 08:14:15 How it actually works. 08:14:47 KipIngram: do you have a link to scans of those books? 08:15:23 No, not that one. Sorry. I own printed copies, and I don't know if they're easy to find anymore. 08:16:21 KipIngram: they probably arent. So if you have a scanner or just a digital camera and a tripod then would you mind coping them? 08:17:40 Well, I can take that as a project, but it will be a while before I can get it done. 08:17:49 I don't want to damage the books, so it will be tedious. 08:18:08 I'm sort of anal about taking care of books. 08:18:34 But I really would like for those books to be available to the community, so I'll do that at some point. 08:18:46 sounds good and I aproove of the good handling of books 08:53:03 spark.apache.org how do this in forth? 08:53:05 forth linda? 08:53:15 when forth desktop pc in 1% the code? 08:53:46 werc.cat-v.org > java or forth or .net? 09:02:41 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 09:06:53 werc is a set of rc shell scripts, so can't be equated as better than a language 09:07:19 no idea what `forth linda` is 09:08:09 probably never on the desktop in forth in 1% of the code (also, 1% of *what* code?) 09:10:20 but if you want a starting point for a forth os, maybe https://sites.google.com/site/forthoperatingsystem/ or http://www.forthos.org/ 09:11:39 crc: you are the one behind retro, yes? I am not understanding how to do io interface with your newer vm spec. 09:16:25 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:9441:419f:35b1:686e) joined #forth 09:16:45 io is implemented differently for each host. A small repl is at http://forthworks.com:8000/artifact/473d8c21def25936 (interfaces/repl.c) and a much bigger example is rre (http://forthworks.com:8000/artifact/1981e8b0993b1e02 and http://forthworks.com:8000/artifact/251f4af253b1acc8) 09:19:02 crc: how can an program running on nga do io interface discovery? is there an standard way like with the DCPU-16 (the HWI, HWN, and HWQ instructions)? 09:20:13 There's not a way to do this currently 09:25:20 crc: and btw, null terminated strings? really? arent enough of buffer overflows in the world already? ;-Þ 09:30:00 Kust check the length before using them :) 09:30:05 *Just 10:14:23 --- join: _spt_ (~Jupiter-R@host-89-242-39-68.as13285.net) joined #forth 10:14:27 --- quit: _spt_ (Changing host) 10:14:27 --- join: _spt_ (~Jupiter-R@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 10:15:10 programming 10:15:14 it seems hard 10:15:20 not sure I can do it 10:15:37 I mean telling computer some variabels and doing a calcaultion and rpinting ti seemsin theory not ahrd 10:15:46 but web interfacing kikn my butt 10:19:02 maybe I need to learn syntax a bit better and this get a lot easier 10:19:09 I mean it SEEMS simple 10:19:13 theritically 10:40:14 it's not that hard. Read the FAQ at http://www.webthing.com/tutorials/cgifaq.html and the CGI spec. Then look at examples in a language you know. 11:24:25 --- quit: _spt_ (Remote host closed the connection) 11:38:56 If Gavino writes a CGI in Forth I will eat my motherboard 11:39:52 lol 11:40:06 Where can I find some truly nice forth code? 11:40:18 And the more recent, the better 11:41:19 https://github.com/search?l=Forth&o=desc&q=Forth&s=updated&type=Repositories 11:47:50 github is full of crap though :( 11:48:03 Unless you are implying all Forth code is beautiful 11:48:05 ;P 11:51:45 Good point 11:54:35 hi, does anyone have good forthnite aimbots 11:55:09 http://new.retroforth.org/Casket/v2.forth is an HTTP server; http://forthworks.com:8000/artifact/928dc8ba413009f9 implements a 1D cellular automota; http://forthworks.com:8000/artifact/be4ce7c0cf94695f and http://forthworks.com:8000/artifact/0f9ac3221d8141ee are a block editor and gopher based storage system 11:55:36 KipIngram: a language with fold and map and finite data structures only is pretty useful and does not have explicit looping constructs 11:56:17 crc has really nice code 11:56:37 I use retro a lot for stuff I'm just "doing" but my code is ugly as hell 11:58:13 KipIngram: what is forthworks? 11:58:14 er 11:58:19 that was for crc sorry :) 12:00:12 oh, is the stuff under /artifact a fossil repo? 12:00:15 my primary domain 12:00:20 yes 12:01:16 interesting 12:01:28 I use fossil to manage retro and a few other projects 12:01:30 why do you use fossil out of all things? 12:01:52 not questioning your choice, just curious :) 12:04:40 it's fairly small and only needs a single executable to setup on a new machine 12:06:05 ah cool, ok 12:06:06 :) 12:06:14 i've been intrigued by pijul recently 12:06:35 but i don't think it's small (though i don't know, i haven't actually /used/ it, i just read about the way it manages merges, which is pretty cool) 12:07:33 Hey, do any of you guys have direct experience with implementing a Forth for MacOS in 64-bit mode? Looks like MacOS has some program counter relative addressing requirements that complicate the phooey out of it. 12:08:03 I'm tinkering around with nasm and the very very beginnings of what I was hoping would become a Forth, but it's just behaving in a damn queer way. 12:08:51 For example, I can take a source file that assembles into something "partially operative" (NEXT steps through a list of addresses and runs the correct code) which I can break by ADDING AN UNREFERENCED CODE LABEL. 12:08:58 That seems like a bug indicator to me. 12:09:49 ~3.5mb on FreeBSD 11, 64-bit 12:11:08 --- quit: djinni (Quit: Leaving) 12:12:43 --- join: djinni (~djinni@68.ip-149-56-14.net) joined #forth 12:14:23 crc: thank you 12:15:46 on windows, 5.2mb; the portable git is 242mb and 5,696 files 12:17:00 lf94: no problem 12:17:26 The forth presented in these links is way different from what I read on learnxinyminutes X) 12:17:33 (gforth?) 12:20:18 my forth is retro; https://forthworks.com/retro 12:21:24 Why not use gforth? 12:21:46 retro forth is way better 12:21:59 hm 12:22:08 "better" is pretty relative 12:22:18 yeah true 12:22:24 Retro feels way better to use 12:23:50 hm 12:24:03 Is it just like "real" forth? 12:24:25 personally it's forthier than forth because words don't parse forward 12:25:20 can forth databases beat psotgresql? 12:25:40 `if a else b then` becomes `[ a ] [ b ] choose` 12:26:34 lf94: because I've spent years building a Forth that maps to the way I want it to work :) 12:26:48 hastuur_: look at comp.lang.forth, Elizabeth Rather talks about how CM and her's database beat out multi-millions of dollars of research 12:27:51 WilhelmVonWeiner, that is nice 12:27:55 why [] tho 12:28:18 [ and ] surround an anonymous word 12:28:23 [ a ] [ b ] choose reminds me of strlen.com/false 12:29:06 hastuur_: are you just going to repeatedly ask the same questions here that you do in the newsgroup? 12:30:19 I adopted those from Joy and Factor 12:30:44 jn__: Looks like a funny write-only language 12:30:53 WilhelmVonWeiner: yep 12:33:03 also Retro has great core words like "reorder" which can reshuffle and duplicate the top 26 items on the stack in an arbitrary order 12:34:04 If your stack is "1 2 3 4" and you want "1 1 2 4 3" you do `'abcd 'aabdc reorder` 12:39:37 neeeeat, i love reorder 12:40:13 try the language out 12:51:47 [] just looks odd :) too much association to lists. 12:52:56 I'm interested in forth because EVM is stack based. I use LowLevelLisp to write out instructions, but Forth would be *way* more suitable, and there are probably forth idioms that'd work really well 12:53:24 Writing a forth -> evm compiler would be trivial 12:53:31 One of you guys could probably do it in 2 nights 12:58:10 After I redo and resubmit my coursework 12:58:27 I'm working on exactly what you said 13:22:10 Please keep me update 13:22:11 d 13:23:11 --- join: rixard (~rixard@h-112-233.A444.priv.bahnhof.se) joined #forth 13:24:45 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 13:25:45 it'll be a while 13:26:11 --- quit: rixard (Client Quit) 14:09:24 --- join: pierpa (57100917@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.16.9.23) joined #forth 14:10:18 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 14:28:10 --- quit: bluekelp (Quit: leaving) 14:28:49 --- join: bluekelp (~bluekelp@bluekelp.com) joined #forth 14:43:34 --- quit: ThirtyOne32nds (Remote host closed the connection) 15:31:05 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:32:16 --- join: ThirtyOne32nds (~rtmanpage@166.sub-174-204-14.myvzw.com) joined #forth 15:33:11 --- quit: ThirtyOne32nds (Remote host closed the connection) 15:33:37 --- join: ThirtyOne32nds (~rtmanpage@166.sub-174-204-14.myvzw.com) joined #forth 17:16:49 --- quit: FatalNIX (Changing host) 17:16:49 --- join: FatalNIX (~FatalNIX@unaffiliated/fatalnix) joined #forth 17:29:57 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 17:34:56 --- quit: nighty- (Max SendQ exceeded) 17:35:28 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 17:45:08 --- nick: nighty- -> nighty 17:45:18 --- nick: nighty -> nighty-- 17:45:25 --- nick: nighty-- -> nighty- 18:12:17 hi 19:17:05 hi 19:17:28 is lisp>forth 19:17:31 ? 19:20:39 uh? 19:20:43 --- quit: FatalNIX (Disconnected by services) 19:21:09 --- join: FatalNIX_ (~FatalNIX@caligula.lobsternetworks.com) joined #forth 19:21:13 i don't know them, i've never coded in them, i've never seen a program in them, but i'll say no 19:21:42 cos it's #forth :-) 19:22:06 yes, lisp is better than forth. please go to #lisp 19:23:33 --- nick: FatalNIX_ -> FatalNIX 19:24:11 --- quit: FatalNIX (Disconnected by services) 19:26:02 --- join: FatalNIX_ (~FatalNIX@caligula.lobsternetworks.com) joined #forth 19:29:26 --- nick: FatalNIX_ -> FatalNIX 19:33:53 no, no, java is the best, please go to #java 19:55:14 java is the worst 19:55:45 smalltalk haskell lisp forth ada prolog 19:55:49 all interesting 20:08:27 --- quit: pierpa (Quit: Page closed) 20:24:31 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host23-9-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 20:31:36 --- quit: pierpal (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 20:34:29 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 20:35:01 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host23-9-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 20:37:30 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:37:46 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host23-9-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 20:47:08 --- join: rtmanpages (~rtmanpage@11.sub-174-204-6.myvzw.com) joined #forth 20:49:54 --- quit: ThirtyOne32nds (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 21:24:48 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:25:03 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host23-9-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 21:46:45 --- join: Guest34 (5f3bfa3e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.95.59.250.62) joined #forth 22:17:53 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:18:11 --- join: pierpal (~pierpal@host23-9-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 22:35:59 --- quit: Guest34 (Remote host closed the connection) 22:45:14 --- quit: pierpal (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23:08:03 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-105-24.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 23:41:43 --- join: Hvacmechanic (~rtmanpage@128.sub-174-204-5.myvzw.com) joined #forth 23:44:38 --- quit: rtmanpages (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 23:55:07 --- join: rtmanpages (~rtmanpage@51.sub-174-204-3.myvzw.com) joined #forth 23:57:59 --- quit: Hvacmechanic (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/18.06.01