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joined #forth 09:59:59 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 10:03:33 --- join: dddddd (~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) joined #forth 10:05:33 --- quit: M-jimt (Remote host closed the connection) 10:29:26 --- join: alexshendi (~yaaic@ip4d15fdc8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 10:40:06 --- join: M-jimt (jimtmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ksujefoksktdyudl) joined #forth 10:43:17 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-122-244.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 10:54:13 reepca: yes, i would be okay with that 10:54:46 reepca: what do you think, what would be a good way to do this? 10:55:10 i mean, what would be a good subset of forth that is correct if it parses? 11:04:12 --- quit: circ-user-81lkm (Remote host closed the connection) 11:14:42 --- quit: alexshendi (Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org) 11:15:36 --- join: alexshendi (~yaaic@ip4d15fdc8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 11:25:18 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 11:25:45 --- quit: nonlinear (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 11:33:52 --- quit: M-jimt (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:51:27 --- join: karswell_ (~user@cust125-dsl91-135-5.idnet.net) joined #forth 13:07:27 --- nick: karswell_ -> karswell 13:43:25 --- quit: larsb (*.net *.split) 13:43:25 --- quit: dzho (*.net *.split) 13:43:26 --- quit: sigjuice (*.net *.split) 13:43:27 --- quit: crc (*.net *.split) 13:43:44 --- join: sigjuice (~sigjuice@107.170.193.86) joined #forth 13:48:40 --- join: larsb (~lars@junk.nocrew.org) joined #forth 13:48:40 --- join: dzho (~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 13:48:40 --- join: crc (sid2647@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kiofzlgmjgijuwmh) joined #forth 13:48:40 --- mode: cherryh.freenode.net set +ov crc crc 13:53:39 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 14:37:22 --- quit: larsb (*.net *.split) 14:37:22 --- quit: dzho (*.net *.split) 14:37:23 --- quit: crc (*.net *.split) 14:42:31 --- join: larsb (~lars@junk.nocrew.org) joined #forth 14:42:31 --- join: 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(~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 18:36:35 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 19:13:44 cheater: I'm not sure - that's why I said it'd be an interesting challenge. Especially difficult for possible runtime errors like division by zero. You can either start by adding words in from nothing or taking words away from some definition of "forth". There's also the issue of things like stack balancing - I know that in general postfix can certainly be parsed, but when you add in stack manipulations and don't restrict words to a 19:13:45 single stack effect (some word might be n1 n2 -- n, another might be -- n1 n2 n3). Personally I'd try starting from very basic arithmetic primitives that can't cause errors (not the exception kind, at least - whether integer overflow is an error is up to you) and stack manipulators and try to develop a grammar that can parse and validate just that. After that I'd try making defining new words work, and then - and only then - would I try 19:13:45 tackling stuff like conditionals. 19:15:27 --- quit: circ-user-jCPZY (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 19:20:26 yes, i think the additive approach should be much easier than the negative approach 19:20:36 but why do you think defining words are easier than conditionals? 19:20:43 it seems to me like defining words would be more difficult 19:20:50 what do you think is the difficulty with conditionals? 19:21:31 --- join: karswell_ (~user@cust125-dsl91-135-5.idnet.net) joined #forth 19:23:28 --- quit: karswell (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 19:24:55 --- quit: dddddd (Remote host closed the connection) 19:34:46 I can't quite articulate it. In general, proving arbitrary statements about even just natural numbers is impossible (equivalent to halting problem, etc), so if we need to know without running the program which branch will be taken in order to detect errors, then it won't be possible. 19:52:35 Even stack balance errors might be undecidable when conditionals are involved, I think. Suppose we have a word COMPLEX-TEST? that takes one cell from the stack and returns a flag, and EQUIVALENT-TEST? implements the same functionality but in a nontrivially different way. DUP COMPLEX-TEST? IF SWAP DROP THEN EQUIVALENT-TEST? IF 0 THEN 1001 +. Knowing that the stack effect will be balanced in that case requires knowing that COMPLEX-TEST? 19:52:35 will be true if and only if EQUIVALENT-TEST? is true. If you're willing to further restrict the language so that the same stack effect must be present regardless of the branch taken, it might be doable though. 19:53:23 what are "stack balance errors"? 19:53:45 .s <0> ok 19:53:48 + 19:54:03 *the terminal*:86: error: Stack underflow 19:54:31 ah so you mean the stack won't run out? 19:55:08 depends on what you mean by "run out". "run out of space" or "run out of items on it"? I mean the latter. 19:57:15 items 19:57:17 bottom out 19:57:18 sorry 19:57:29 so yeah as you said 19:58:46 --- join: Gromboli (~Gromboli@static-72-88-80-103.bflony.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 20:02:40 Also you should probably start making a list of the restrictions you add, as it seems to be growing quite a bit and it'll help to bring people up to speed quickly. 20:02:47 (if you haven't already) 20:04:41 yeah i am making a sort of design doc 20:04:56 look here http://sprunge.us/MEMW 20:05:04 just some thoughts so far 20:06:12 I get "500 Internal Server Error" on trying to access that 20:06:24 try again, sprunge might be being silly 20:06:38 let me try another pastebin 20:07:42 try http://paste.ubuntu.com/26137326/ 20:21:40 I don't know very much about cryptocurrencies and the like. I suppose my main question is: what ideas/features/values do you want to take from forth? 20:59:53 --- join: nighty-- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) joined #forth 21:06:19 --- quit: karswell_ (Read error: No route to host) 21:09:48 --- quit: Gromboli (Quit: Leaving) 22:08:08 --- join: circ-user-jCPZY (~circuser-@68.21.148.119) joined #forth 22:08:53 --- quit: circ-user-jCPZY (Remote host closed the connection) 23:07:14 --- quit: pointfree (Read error: No route to host) 23:07:54 --- join: pointfree (sid204397@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lqqtjcpmifdtqopf) joined #forth 23:08:02 --- quit: lonjil (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 23:08:12 --- join: birk (~quassel@2a02:418:6050:ed15:ed15:ed15:e741:32d6) joined #forth 23:08:38 --- quit: rodarmor (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 23:15:28 --- quit: pointfree1 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 23:15:45 --- quit: M-jimt (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:49:22 --- quit: bedah (Quit: Ex-Chat) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/17.12.07