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timeout: 258 seconds) 02:51:43 --- join: impomatic (~impomatic@host86-175-96-15.range86-175.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 02:52:10 --- join: leaverite (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 02:54:58 --- join: leaverite1 (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 02:56:40 --- quit: leaverite (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 02:58:57 --- quit: leaverite1 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:00:24 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@2405:9800:bc10:1ca:e4e1:350d:b166:eba9) joined #forth 03:00:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 03:00:52 --- join: leaverite (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 03:04:57 --- quit: leaverite (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:06:57 --- join: leaverite (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 03:10:57 --- quit: leaverite (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:12:56 --- join: leaverite (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 03:14:02 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 03:18:07 --- join: leaverite1 (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 03:19:33 --- quit: leaverite (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 03:19:35 --- nick: leaverite1 -> leaverite 03:23:49 --- quit: leaverite (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 03:24:01 --- join: leaverite (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 03:27:05 --- join: leaverite1 (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 03:28:05 --- quit: leaverite (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 03:28:06 --- nick: leaverite1 -> leaverite 03:32:10 --- join: leaverite1 (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 03:32:27 --- quit: leaverite (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:32:28 --- nick: leaverite1 -> leaverite 03:36:57 --- quit: leaverite (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:38:24 --- join: leaverite (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 03:38:27 --- quit: bedah (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 03:42:45 --- join: leaverite1 (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 03:42:57 --- quit: leaverite (Remote host closed the connection) 03:42:57 --- nick: leaverite1 -> leaverite 03:47:33 FatalNIX, hey!! got your ears on? 03:48:35 --- join: leaverite1 (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 03:49:17 FatalNIX check out ficl in /usr/src/sys/boot/ficl 03:49:25 --- quit: leaverite (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 03:49:26 --- nick: leaverite1 -> leaverite 03:50:26 --- join: bedah (~bedah@2a02:810d:243f:f584:dc72:5ec1:9945:65b1) joined #forth 03:51:01 I didnt know it was in packages cause It didnt turn up in pkg search 03:54:55 --- join: leaverite1 (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 03:55:49 --- quit: leaverite (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 03:55:50 --- nick: leaverite1 -> leaverite 04:47:14 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@host-92-8-44-152.as43234.net) joined #forth 04:49:43 --- quit: Uniju (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 04:57:33 --- quit: leaverite (Remote host closed the connection) 04:57:58 --- join: leaverite (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 05:03:52 --- quit: wa5qjh (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:04:19 --- quit: leaverite (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 05:08:23 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:09:21 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 05:10:59 --- join: jedb (~jedb@71.19.249.82) joined #forth 05:13:43 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 05:15:49 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:28:36 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 05:29:14 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@host-92-8-44-152.as43234.net) joined #forth 05:33:14 --- join: jedb (~jedb@199.66.90.113) joined #forth 05:33:49 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 06:19:49 --- quit: jedb (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 06:32:35 --- join: jedb (~jedb@71.19.248.193) joined #forth 06:36:48 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 06:47:19 oh hey ficl is the forth interpreter that loader uses 06:47:20 cool 07:11:46 IMHO You shouldn't bother with FICL. 08:33:08 --- quit: Zarutian_PI (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08:33:25 --- join: Zarutian_PI (~3.1415@173-133-17-89.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:23:11 --- quit: lonjil (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 09:23:30 --- join: lonjil (~quassel@2a02:418:6050:ed15:ed15:ed15:e741:32d6) joined #forth 10:29:53 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@host-92-8-44-152.as43234.net) joined #forth 10:32:27 --- join: tartal (~tartal@159.224.109.206) joined #forth 10:33:57 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 10:40:39 --- quit: tartal (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 10:54:07 Why's that 10:54:20 I use FreeBSD 11:02:09 Let's say I'm ranting :) . I see nothing interesting about it. Where would You recomend I look first? Or in other words, what is so interesting about it? 11:38:38 --- join: Chef_Gromboli (~Chef_Grom@static-72-88-80-103.bflony.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 12:52:52 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@host-92-8-44-152.as43234.net) joined #forth 12:58:06 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 12:59:56 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@host-92-8-44-152.as43234.net) joined #forth 13:05:43 --- join: Uniju (~frog_styl@cpe-74-78-4-232.mass.res.rr.com) joined #forth 13:12:22 --- quit: mnemnion (Quit: Leaving...) 13:20:14 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@host-92-8-44-152.as43234.net) joined #forth 14:05:27 --- quit: DKordic (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:24:43 --- quit: johnmark_ (Quit: Leaving) 15:56:27 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 16:01:16 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 16:02:45 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 16:02:46 --- nick: wa5qjh_ -> wa5qjh 16:07:36 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 16:09:29 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 16:11:26 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 16:12:24 --- quit: wa5qjh_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 16:16:53 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 16:17:51 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 16:17:51 --- nick: wa5qjh_ -> wa5qjh 16:21:59 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 16:22:19 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 16:22:20 --- nick: wa5qjh_ -> wa5qjh 16:22:50 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 16:35:17 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@184.22.242.38) joined #forth 16:35:17 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 16:40:07 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 16:41:50 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 16:42:45 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 16:43:06 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 16:44:23 --- quit: wa5qjh_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 16:46:32 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 16:50:48 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 16:52:32 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 16:59:47 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 17:01:32 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 17:03:49 --- quit: wa5qjh_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17:04:47 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 17:08:50 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17:11:04 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 17:14:41 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 17:15:19 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17:15:20 --- nick: wa5qjh_ -> wa5qjh 17:17:52 --- join: Chef_Gromboli_ (~Chef_Grom@static-72-88-80-103.bflony.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 17:19:57 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 17:20:10 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 17:20:10 --- join: ball (~ball@99-60-12-181.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 17:20:23 --- part: ball left #forth 17:20:27 --- quit: Chef_Gromboli (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17:20:38 --- join: ball (~ball@99-60-12-181.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 17:21:27 I had an idea, and it's rather silly, but I'd like to make an Intel Compute Stick or other similar, small form-factor device that boots directly into ColorFORTH. 17:21:54 I was thinking that I'd go about it by loading FreeDOS 1.2's installer and having it make an FD GRUB bootloader 17:22:03 Hello MrBusiness 17:22:12 --- nick: wa5qjh_ -> wa5qjh 17:22:26 MrBusiness: Why have an OS underneath it? 17:22:27 then go into GParted Live and partition a FAT32 filesystem onto which I would then clone the ColorFORTH iso 17:22:34 (rather than Forth as the OS?) 17:22:34 Oh, not for the OS 17:22:38 just for the GRUB 17:22:51 Why Grub? 17:22:58 I'm familiar with it. 17:23:09 Hmm... seems like overkill. 17:23:24 Maybe, I dunno 17:23:41 I mean, compute sticks in the $100.00 range aren't that exceptionally bizarre 17:24:01 a quad-core atom, 2GB of DDR3, some 32GB of NAND 17:24:07 and a couple of IO ports 17:24:11 sometimes wifi 17:24:33 but most of that would be irrelevant upon first boot into ColorFORTH, since I'd need to write device drivers to make it work. 17:24:38 Do you have a multithreaded Forth? 17:24:52 no, and this one probably only does 32-bit x86 17:25:22 But this is not to suggest that if I can find ColorFORTH's source ASM files on github, and I feel reasonably sure that they're on there somewhere 17:25:49 then I could fork that and implement a dialect of my own, perhaps with the help of some C to do higher-level introspection of the hardware. 17:25:58 Surely Forth could run nicely on a single-core chip? 17:26:29 Then permitting me to load as many Forth instances as I can cram onto a given logical core and perhaps partition the memory between the cores and their Forth runtimes 17:26:46 I haven't gotten that far yet though 17:27:10 I have a feeling someone's already written a Forth with some concurrency support. 17:27:14 don't really want to muck about with the minutae of my BizForth dialect until I know I can create a relatively pure coding environment. 17:27:23 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 17:27:45 No doubt, but does it offer standalone access to the entire system's computing resources, or is it meant to run on an OS 17:27:54 I'm sort of challenging myself with this 17:27:59 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@host-92-8-44-152.as43234.net) joined #forth 17:28:44 to make a game, given a capable piece of inexpensive hardware and a barebones Forth, can I ultimately write enough utilities and dictionaries so as to gain some control over screen drawing and other things and thereby produce a crude game engine and, therewith, a crude game. 17:28:53 I've not heard of BizForth 17:29:03 It only exists in my mind 17:29:10 for I am 17:29:15 the Biz :# 17:29:23 * ball shrugs 17:29:44 I do intend to try to compare what Forth environments and dialects that I can find 17:30:16 as if I do go to this trouble to make my own, I'd definitely like it to come with a few batteries included, even if I have to be the one wrapping the tin around the electrolyte 17:30:49 This ColorForth compute stick project alone will probably necessitate that I have a custom keyboard designed for me 17:31:06 because thus far the keyboard has some 6 modes and only uses 27 total keys 17:31:33 I believe this came about due to Charles H. Moore wanting to minimize his typing as a way of dealing with his Arthritis. 17:32:11 I mean, I did my best to avoid this 17:32:23 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 17:32:34 I tried to get an EVB001 from GreenArrays, but they claim to be sold out 17:32:49 so I was put on the mailing list for the second generation's release. 17:33:05 And they recently updated the spec on the constituent GA144 CPUs 17:33:37 I'd definitely like to try that, since those CPUs have a lot of interesting-sounding minutiae 17:34:16 Not to mention 144 Forth-literate "cores", though I reckon GAs refers to each core as a "computer" 17:34:23 which may very well be true 17:34:58 Guess it wouldn't hurt to read up on how ArrayForth works. I believe that's the dialect of the GA144's native Forth. 17:35:41 Outside that, my only other prospects would be to get an old SPARC and play in OpenBoot, but that dialect is stupendously unintuitive and does not even seem to maintain a left to right control flow consistently. 17:36:19 or get a MicroComputer from the 80s intended to run a Forth and then hope I can determine the dialect and find a suitable manual therefor 17:36:55 I guess that's something worth asking: what Forth implementations are your favorites and why? 17:39:28 Mine? It has been so long since I looked at Forth that I don't even remember. 17:39:36 I've seen it on some embedded boards though. 17:39:51 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 17:41:33 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 17:42:42 --- join: MrBismuth (~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:e193:f26b:2bfc:4f78) joined #forth 17:42:49 --- quit: MrBusiness (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 17:43:29 sorry, my machine has some weird pathological issues 17:43:57 --- quit: wa5qjh_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17:46:14 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 17:49:06 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 17:50:20 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17:50:20 --- nick: wa5qjh_ -> wa5qjh 17:52:26 Perhaps you should replace it with a Forth stick. 17:52:46 I suppose one of the trickier parts of that would be WiFi support. 17:53:27 No doubt. I'm probably not going to concern myself much with implementing drivers for much 17:54:23 ColorForth has no TCP/IP stack, so even if wifi did work there's not much that I could really do with it unless I wrote some byzantine protocol to send blocks over bluetooth to remote devices 17:54:26 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 17:54:51 though I suppose that there is the thought of just leaving colorForth an image and loading the image over PXE boot 17:55:02 Wouldn't that hamper its usefulness? 17:55:03 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 17:55:03 --- nick: wa5qjh_ -> wa5qjh 17:55:08 however, I imagine that would involve learning the low-level specifics of a PXE boot 17:55:15 Can't PXE over WiFi though, surely? 17:55:30 Never tried, and I imagine it would be terrible if I tried 17:56:05 but hey, no internet is no problem as long as I can take advantage of my solid state storage with a relatively simple filesystem driver 17:56:24 I mean, I'd wager that a FAT32 driver wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility 17:57:01 In the end, I feel certain I'll end up scooping up some embedded C libraries to include in my stack if I need to perform anything terribly nuanced 17:57:25 And I'd probably want to have some memory protection for at least my Forth core. 17:57:59 Which is probably just a matter of staggering the interactive address space. 17:58:26 I mean, again, I haven't defined what kind of features I really want from a Forth dialect of my very own. 17:59:04 But OS agnosticism seems like a good starting point for something that seems classically "A Forth of the Forth tradition." 17:59:39 "OS agnosticism" from an OS? ok. 17:59:48 And if I get it worked in a small amount of x86[_64] then I reckon that I could try to emulate FreeBSD and port it to other popular ISAs such as ARM and MIPS 17:59:59 You consider ColorForth to be an OS? 18:00:04 I suppose it could be seen that way. 18:00:15 I'm used to Forth as an OS. 18:00:20 I've not used ColorForht 18:00:25 ColorForth* 18:00:34 ...objecting in principle to the idea. 18:00:50 What's the principle though? 18:01:08 I like a language that doesn't depend on colour vision ;-) 18:01:19 I mean, would it be appreciably better if I decided to cram a base Arch onto the stick and use a distro Forth? 18:01:49 * ball <- not a Linux person 18:01:57 Yeah, I doubt that I would preserve that aspect of ColorForth myself. If I did, It'd probably do something else besides just colors to make the colors distinguishable. 18:02:09 You sound like an embedded person 18:02:21 That's probably fair. 18:02:26 Someone who ain't got the spare circuits to worry about no dang OS 18:02:37 but in that case, why use Forth instead of an embedded C? 18:02:44 There are places where an OS is appropriate. 18:02:47 Or straight ASM? 18:03:11 ...but there are a range of different operating systems (and types of operating systems) 18:04:53 Ranging from Forth up to (and including) unix. 18:06:24 Yep. Well, I suppose this project doesn't serve much purpose out of providing me with a potentially educational experience 18:07:08 as I've always been curious about how a console game really gets made, particularly the older game consoles where the developers were literally just writing code to interface directly with the hardware and building their game atop that 18:07:14 That doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. I think it's important to figure out up front what your objective is. 18:07:24 Those cats used ASM will into the 32-bit era. 18:07:51 And the AMD APUs running all these newfangled consoles aren't exactly as simple as loading up Unity 3D 18:08:31 So, my objective is to see if I can stand ColorForth, find some other embedded Forth if I can't, and then see just how much I can really accomplish with it. 18:09:00 That's a bit open-ended. 18:09:02 I think it would also just be handy to have a standalone Forth environment for studying my library of old Forth books looking for cool features and things to implement. 18:10:09 The main accomplishment, ideally, would be a series of libraries for control of the machine, and then try to leverage these things into an API for making games, and then make a game while adhering to whatever limitations I cannot overcome. 18:10:19 And I imagine that ColorForth has a lot of those limitations. 18:11:09 Does ColorForth have any concept of a GPU? 18:11:44 That much is not clear, but my guess is that it does not. In fact, it's not clear whether or not I can do any rasterization or blitting at all 18:11:49 It may fail miserably 18:11:58 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 18:12:12 but if it does then it gives me an idea for some minimum requirements should I choose to make BizForth 18:12:34 such as being able to manipulate the framebuffer with a useful dictionary of words pertaining to that 18:12:46 and maybe also support 64-bit data 18:13:30 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 18:13:30 --- nick: wa5qjh_ -> wa5qjh 18:14:03 What might you consider to be a worthwhile goal as an embedded Forth project? 18:14:42 It's not my project. I know if a student came to me with your stated goal I'd ask him or her to narrow it down a bit to something more specific and measurable. 18:14:49 I do have one other potential use-case in mind that Forth might be well-suited to. However, I'm not as stuck on Forth for that project, since it will likely involve a Linux from Scratch at the minimum. 18:15:21 Hm, any suggestions on how I might do that? 18:15:33 Do what? 18:15:42 "Specific and measurable" a dangerous turn of phrase for me. 18:15:51 "dangerous"? 18:16:02 What might I do to narrow my goal and still learn a bit about coding on a raw device? 18:16:19 I've considered programming a clock and calendar onto a PIC microcontroller before. 18:16:34 That sounds like a nice little project. 18:16:45 and then having that feed into a few TTL chips that would mux the LEDs displaying that information. 18:16:51 ...with a deliberatly constrained scope. 18:16:54 I like that one. 18:17:03 Yeah, that project ain't off the table, but I don't have a PIC programmer handy, nor even a PIC 18:17:24 My other "embedded" project is just a silly lark into solar energy 18:17:26 Have you looked at AVR? 18:17:36 AVR microcontrollers? 18:17:38 I have not. 18:17:40 * ball nods 18:17:49 Are those your favorite? 18:18:11 Not necessarily. They're a popular choice for people starting out though and there's an open source toolchain for it. 18:19:02 Well, my first "embedded" project won't really be much of a project. I intend to get a tiny arduino and a very small board onto which I shall wire a series of different LEDs, having them blink and change color in some pseudorandom patterns 18:19:03 I guess there's Arduino too and MicroBit 18:19:22 There you go. 18:19:23 and then affix that into a statue I'm trying to make as the logo for my nascent computer company. 18:19:24 Mr.Bismuth ball, yesterday, I posted here info about a TI MSP430 launchpad with 256KB of 'rom' and 64 KB ram in 2 versions, one with a wifi chip onboard, one without $49.99 & $12.99 They both look very capable. the cpu is described as ARM v4 something or other. 18:19:34 --- join: Chef_Gromboli (~Chef_Grom@static-72-88-80-103.bflony.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 18:19:50 wa5qjh: Those sound potentially useful. 18:20:14 Very interesting. 18:20:23 --- quit: Chef_Gromboli_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 18:20:50 http://www.ti.com/tool/cc3220sf-launchxl ~$50 18:20:50 http://www.ti.com/tool/msp-exp432p401r 18:21:19 Thanks 18:21:29 My solar energy project was going to be buying up some cheap solar cells from harbor freight and then creating an assembly that would have a few driver motors and gears run by an R. Pi to follow the sun while it's out and go into a lower power state when the light fades 18:22:20 the idea was that it would be possible to mount a slew of them to porch railings, then daisy chain them and have the last one take the cumulative power input and stuff it all into a gank of 12V gel batteries. 18:22:33 Do Harbor freight carry anything substantial, solar-wise? 18:22:42 yes indeed 18:22:49 i got the very idea from my friend's stepfather 18:23:01 who made something much more concrete and mechanical 18:23:15 and there's an NXP/Freescale 68???912 little demo board still available. 6812 has the 6809's instruction set and has a very powerfull addressing mode set. 18:23:21 his cells were mounted onto truck trailer hitches 18:23:29 the cells could be raised and lowered 18:23:31 Oooh, does it have Supervisor Mode? 18:23:48 and with just the light in his basement he plugged in an ice maker that made ice just from the moisture in the air 18:24:02 granted, his 12V cell array was also very likely already charged 18:24:15 unfortunately, I lost the list of essential items I need to make a basic cell 18:24:25 M68MOD912C32 18:25:10 You know, I think the microcontroller boards we used to buy with Forth on were 6811-based. 18:25:12 and beyond that, building the electromechanical apparatus to perform the adjustments for sun position, elevation, geolocation, weather, and time of day would all need to be done by a computer with probably at least a barebones OS if I want to have good introspection. 18:25:18 ...that's going back about twenty years. 18:25:30 AT LEAST! 18:25:52 Oh heck... 29 years. 18:25:58 :-o 18:26:21 * ball <- elmer 18:26:25 the '12 has a wider range of addressing modes a few of which make Stacks fast and easy. 18:26:35 I'm the world's first No Code Elmer ;-) 18:27:16 ...which reminds me: I need to find the charger for my HT 18:27:18 I need to just study online to see what materials the solar project needs. As these things go, an autonomous, portable solar cell field system with its own software drivers and hardware interacions would probably be popular enough with the prepper crowd that maybe I'd have myself a little cottage industry that i could eventually turn into either a serious company or else a serious buyout 18:27:34 anyway, just wanteed to throw those suggestions at you for consideration. I'll butt out now. 18:28:05 wa5qjh: Those were great. Thanks for joining in! 18:28:10 --- quit: Chef_Gromboli (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 18:28:39 I came up with the solar idea in the first place in part because my local power company really decided to mess with my head when I first moved in here 18:29:02 --- join: Chef_Gromboli (~Chef_Grom@static-72-88-80-103.bflony.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 18:29:09 there were just scads of rolling brown outs, so all of my crappy, thrift store desk clocks from the 80s would lose time. 18:29:11 I'd like a nice PV array but it would be fairly static. 18:29:47 I guess there's a potential embedded solution for that too if I wanted to butcher my clocks slightly 18:30:47 if I removed the buttons and made a dumb ntp device that could read the state of the clock and then run leads to where its setting buttons are, I could conceivably make an automatic NTP clock resetter 18:31:11 TI used to have a sports watch kit that had either 430 ISM or 916 ISM in it. Chrono since you've got an HT you probably use either of those 2 bands. 18:31:19 probably be more reliable than their default behavior of losing time and still blinking when I plug in a 9V backup battery 18:31:36 :-) 18:32:01 I'll put that on the "long term" idea list 18:32:23 but it seems at least semi-approachable if I can get it to work with an arbitrary smattering of clocks. 18:33:15 wa5qjh: Any thoughts on pforth Vs. gforth? 18:36:54 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 18:37:57 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 18:37:58 --- nick: wa5qjh_ -> wa5qjh 18:40:16 hm, though as I consider it, I'd probably have to build the NTP clock resetter by starting out in a 188-in-1 electronics lab, since I'd probably need some sort of short-wave radio component to get the ntp time, and then I don't even know if clocks today are anything more than a few buttons on one part of a PCB, a small SoC covered with that black goop, and what I'd wager to be, in all likelihood, a very thin little interface 18:40:16 for projecting the current time onto the LED matrix. 18:40:41 Granted, I could just assume that all clocks that lose power are going to start blinking 12:00 AM 18:41:05 from there the only difficulty is that I can see there perhaps being one or two dials to adjust on the clocks 18:41:14 or the NTP device 18:41:33 one being some sort of counter specifying the ideal delay between button presses 18:42:16 and perhaps another for approximating drag on the clock's crystal oscillator, one of which would also need to live in the device most likely 18:42:19 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 18:42:23 If you're getting it via short-wave, it's not NTP 18:42:25 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 18:42:32 oh, nuts 18:42:45 I keep getting disconnected here. 18:42:55 yeah, I guess NTP implies a TCP/IP stack 18:43:16 which means I'm suddenly looking at something both simpler to build as well as more complex. 18:44:15 I guess with a short-wave radio though one might be able to make an "atomically-actuated clock adjuster." 18:44:32 Since I've been made to understand that an atomic clock is just a clock with a radio. 18:44:34 MrBismuth then that one TI launchpad might be what you need since it has the wifi on board as well as the drivers for it. 18:44:45 --- nick: wa5qjh_ -> wa5qjh 18:44:52 hm, I shall give it a look 18:45:21 all said and done though, I doubt I'm gonna give up on the ColorForth compute stick. There's not much to be lost from it. 18:45:45 save some time and money, but time ain't money when all you've got is time. 18:46:07 I only make suggestions based on my own discoveries. I dont sell those things hi hi :) 18:46:31 I ain't calling that into question. 18:46:31 Are you retired? ( too) 18:46:34 No 18:46:48 My career took a bad turn the moment I graduated from college 18:47:01 no, didnt think you were. just wanted to clarify. 18:47:09 and now I live in a city where I can't get a job commensurate with my training, abilities, or interests. 18:47:22 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) joined #forth 18:47:34 So my only thing left to do is to try making another company and hopefully not fail completely at it. 18:47:46 cant get much worse than me. I'm in the boondocks of the Philippines! 18:47:53 Granted, thus far my business model is a bunch of conglomerated endeavors 18:48:13 --- join: Chef_Gromboli_ (~Chef_Grom@static-72-88-80-103.bflony.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 18:48:32 I live near a relatively violent housing project community in downtown Birmingham, Alabama 18:49:12 ouch!! time to leave the 'nest' :) ? 18:49:40 I never realized why I was so depressed about life growing up until I moved back here and remembered that I hadn't actually left anything behind, since this place has nothing if you're not a doctor, lawyer, preacher, financial type, manual laborer, gardener, or can find a job in Biotech. 18:49:46 Time to take the dog out. 18:49:49 And biotech apparently don't give a shit about me. 18:49:58 and gardening sucks 18:50:17 I lived outside of this place for 9 years 18:50:26 but I also graduated uni in '08 18:50:33 not an auspicious year 18:51:10 and my first employer capitalized upon it to the fullest possible extent until, I believe, they realized that they only needed to give me an excuse to get pissed off and I'd quit 18:51:19 --- quit: Chef_Gromboli (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 18:51:20 didn't stop me from wasting a good 3 years of my life. 18:51:20 then git outa three and gosomewhere a litle more conducive to your ideas! and do it now! 18:51:31 I would but I'm also broke. 18:52:05 And Portland, Oregon is where I'd like to go, but that place is so gentrified that finding a good apartment in the city proper takes a lot of legwork. 18:52:06 yeah, that's a catch22 situation a lotta people find themselves in. 18:52:13 Yeah. 18:52:20 But I have some moneymaking ideas 18:52:50 and some idea for games that I'd make in normal programming environments with OSes handling the guts. 18:53:07 Just waiting for some things to fall into place. 18:53:10 git yourself down near Austin. bunch of tech firmms down there, and lots of places not far way very low rent. 18:53:38 And as I wait my mind wanders and I get weird project ideas that often end up half-finished or else never leave the pages of my sketchbook 18:53:56 A friend of mine from Austin would disagree strongly about the rent 18:54:10 the construction of an Apple campus there is gentrifying that place 18:54:11 moreover 18:54:16 I never want to live in Texas again 18:54:31 I think portland's gonna be rather hi rent. got a buddy we stayed with a couple weeks jan. this year. 18:54:34 I did live in PDX, OR for a year or so 18:55:07 but then I foolishly left after being unable to escape Milwaukie, the suburb I lived in 20 minutes south of the city by bus 18:55:10 no, not IN Austin!! agree there. but not far away, like New Braunfels, 18:55:19 that place had all the character of Tuscaloosa 18:56:00 If I were gonna do Texas, I'd probably just go to the unincorporated fringe Lubbock town known as Bledsoe 18:56:31 No, Oregon really suits me well. I never worried as much for my life there as I do here. 18:56:37 And I got good exercise taking the bus 18:56:59 many years ago, austin was listed as lowest cost in america. then everybody from up north started moving there bringing their prices with them 18:57:21 I was a real fool to leave. They had a two bed two bath available on a third story apartment in my complex that I could have moved into 18:57:27 but for me it was the city or bust 18:57:32 and so bust things went 18:57:51 Definitely wasn't comfortable in that first floor 1br/1ba I moved into up there 18:57:57 Man!! I know about them regrets!! 18:58:00 the bedroom wall had a black mold on it. 18:58:06 And the ants! 18:58:09 God, the ants 18:59:25 Read a whole book about them trying to develop strategies to kill them, but the takeaway I got from the book is that a hive-minded species that navigates through life on 6 spindly legs, a bundle of nerves, and 8 distinct glands isn't really a strategizing organism 19:00:13 Basically, when they wake up the scouts fan out on random walks and then come back to leave a trail if they find something. 19:00:57 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 19:00:58 I then just tape that down to my desk and set my glass or coffee on it. 19:01:03 From there the gatherers come pull whatever "it" might be back into the hive. They don't even check that it's food, because younger ants that stay underground have that job of sorting, stacking, and cultivating bacteria farms 19:01:28 another set of undergrounders pushes out the refuse 19:01:42 then an even younger set feeds the queen and tends to the eggs and larvae 19:02:16 Suffice to say, one day the scouts decided to come lead a search party up the side of my desk and across my keyboard 19:02:19 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 19:02:20 --- nick: wa5qjh_ -> wa5qjh 19:02:38 I even spray my desktop! 19:02:55 this was while I was up during the hot month of August desperately trying to write a GDD that would make my team comprehend the idea for the game I was proposing. 19:03:14 and the sides buth outside and walls under it 19:03:17 Well, when I started getting that horrible feeling of ant legs crawling across my hands every 15-30 seconds 19:03:21 I just had to flee 19:04:03 but I came back with a lot of ant killing implements and managed to locate the nest of the most virulent colony, probably the one that decided to take a walk on me 19:04:26 and from there I just laid down a nice big blob of combat gel along with a trail of crumbs leading to it 19:05:02 Ah, was trying to think of the name of that pest control company. Terminix has some very powerfull ant control cemicals. 19:05:12 the scouts laid their trail, and then I took a 12 minute YouTube video of a low angle of my kitchen floor. Set a little, plastic cat toy in the foreground as if it were "watching" the hoarde eat its own death. 19:05:27 That's sort of my niche genre of YouTube videos, the video still-life 19:05:49 They could just as well be animated gifs, but since they're videos that's just how it goes. 19:06:12 Yeah, if I weren't funding a company out of my life savings I might have called an exterminator 19:06:26 but then I might have missed out on the second, distinctly more amusing set of ants 19:06:52 whose only claim to fame was being mesmerized by a dimmable 4-buld IKEA paper floor lamp. 19:07:00 bulb* 19:08:10 every night when I came home I'd find a bunch of them just sitting on that lamp, basking in the glow. It puts me in mind of that weird French cartoon Fantastic Planet, where the ohms of the Great Tree eat some weird, glowing rock and then run off amongst the flora of their world to have orgies. 19:08:41 But these ants weren't even that interesting. They'd sit and just tan their exoskeletons even as I crushed all of their nearby pals 19:09:21 I even tried leaving a pile of the dead ones on top to end a message, but a creature with 8 glands and probably no appreciable brain doesn't have the capacity to fear for itself based on the fate of its peers 19:10:01 that's another interesting thing about ants. Only young colonies tend to fight each other. Well established colonies seem to just avoid each other and respect some ill-defined chemical lines in the sand. 19:10:15 No two colonies seem to be able to glean information from another's scents 19:10:44 Fortunately, I now don't have to worry about ants so much 19:10:54 there are none in this apartment after 3 years of me living here 19:11:10 got a lot of other wonderful friends, but they're par for the course in Alabama, even in clean homes 19:11:15 I speak, of course, of cockroaches 19:11:35 I think my current colony got its start by eating the ink out of my printer ?:[] 19:11:55 They definitely seem a little flatter than the average Alabama cockroach 19:12:06 but the spiders are, by far, much more scary 19:12:12 :) 19:12:34 We've got brown recluses, black widows, pretty much most of the ones that'll kill a human dead if the bite goes untreated. 19:12:59 you tried any of those ultrasonic pest-control devices? 19:13:08 Friend of mine from an Internet forum grew up in Anniston, which is about 2/5ths of the way between here and Atlanta, GA 19:13:18 I have not. I might give it a shot though. 19:13:45 they 'claim' to control roaches and mice 19:14:04 I do believe that I may have eradicated the Pinson mouse epidemic my jerkhole friend wrought upon this place when his folks kicked him out and he moved a bunch of boxes of his bullshit into here directly from their basement. 19:14:16 I think it took a solid year before I got the last of 'em 19:14:36 and for all I know they may have just burrowed over to the apartment of a neighbor that cooks more than I do. 19:15:11 They had those devices outside of the buildings in my Colorado apartment. I think that they were mainly targeted at termites. 19:15:15 git yourself one of them ultrasonic dog whistles and next time you see one try it with a range of frequencies. 19:15:28 Only insect problem I had there was a singular but profoundly terrifying encounter. 19:16:07 mice dont like ultrasonic any more than dogs, cats, and bats do. 19:16:14 when some gigantic, metal-fleck, irridescent blue wasp came flying down my chimney and then subsequently came flying at the back of my head 19:16:45 it missed and hit my monitor, but by then I'd already shot out of my chair emitting a note that I don't think my vocal chords could have produced then. 19:17:22 Ran into my bathroom, packed the door frame with towels, and got my nerve up, then I went back out, rolled up two magazines, one in each hand and went hunting 19:17:37 didn't take that wasp long to notice I was back, he attacked immediately 19:18:00 I managed to press it against the carpet and started stabbing its head with the magazine i rolled into a spike 19:18:06 but it wasn't getting hurt at all 19:18:09 it was invincible. 19:18:36 I sat there thrashing at it for two minutes before I saw an empty jar I'd been using as a glass for beverages 19:18:55 so I turned it over and trapped him under that jar with about 3 hardback books piled on top 19:19:12 it buzzed around for maybe close to an hour before it suffocated 19:19:23 and even then, I left it in there for two weeks to be safe 19:19:45 my most paranoid thought was that it might have been some kind of biological weapon. 19:19:47 any more ever appear ? 19:19:53 None. 19:20:08 I piled up a ton of boxes to cover the chimney after that. 19:20:38 But my employer that I'd recently quit before it attacked 19:20:43 they make bad things 19:20:56 and the wasp's color scheme matched the company colors 19:21:05 --- quit: ball (Quit: leaving) 19:21:13 I'm told that human control of insects is essentially a proven concept 19:21:18 get a can of that wasp spray that sprays 25 feet or more. also a good defense against 2 legged invaders too. 19:21:53 so it would hardly surprise me if they had some kind of ultra-toxic, genetically enhanced, weaponized insects they could use to kill someone and make it look like an act of God. 19:22:16 two-legged? 19:22:21 you mean, uh 19:22:28 small children ?:D 19:22:33 human invaders 19:22:36 oh 19:22:42 I've had problems there too 19:22:50 mostly the adult variety. 19:22:52 don't think WASP spray would have helped that matter 19:23:03 I got beat up by two huge thugs last year 19:23:13 well, placed squirt might. 19:23:39 immediate defense while you grab something more leathal 19:23:49 They basically stalked me when I was buying a gun, memorized my address and some basic aspects of my banter with the shop proprieter 19:23:58 I didn't have time 19:24:09 I opened my door to a .45 in my face 19:24:20 and that guy busted in and tried to tie my arms behind my back 19:24:26 I know who one of them was 19:24:32 I'd seen him out of disguise 19:24:33 at first attack, all you need is a little time to think and dvices a response while the attacker tries to recuperate. 19:24:55 and having lifted weights before, I can tell you for certain that this guy had to bench at least 300lbs as his regular working weight. 19:25:08 I didn't have any 19:25:22 I reckon the only thing that saved me was that I was crazy enough to fight back anyway 19:25:57 no, not in that situation. you need a camera outside your door. 19:26:00 but even then, the dude ultimately just threw me over a recliner, pistol whipped me on the top of my skull, and then stood on me with half my torso atop this rotating stand i have 19:26:20 yeah, I've been considering a light bulb camera 19:26:32 just need to make sure I can secure its transmissions 19:26:51 I'd rather have a hardwired CCTV, but i don't think my property manager would approve 19:26:54 one thing I did get 19:27:01 was a hotel-style door blocker 19:27:16 one of those ball joints and a long metal ring 19:27:26 that way I can peek outside and see at least one angle 19:27:29 did you see that thing on one channel where somebody had put a video camera inside a smoke detector? 19:27:34 hasn't stopped people from hiding on the other side. 19:27:44 hm 19:28:07 nad there the 'noir' camera made to fit on R-Pi that can see in the dark 19:28:11 yeah, the outside ceilings are made of those particle squares that align along a grid 19:28:24 I could maybe fish a camera up there somehow. 19:28:53 concealment of the camera is the critical thing 19:28:57 but getting a hardline to it might still prove difficult. I'd have to drill the wall and run a line one way or another. 19:29:34 Ultimately, I have no problem with the idea of a bluetooth or wifi camera as long as I can use WPA2 and possibly a security certificate to encrypt the signal 19:29:39 and hide the SSIDs 19:29:50 and you could use one of those pi-Zeros to broadcast the pix . then only problem would be to power it. 19:29:56 and putting some clandestine cameras inside would probably be workable. 19:30:05 yeah. 19:30:32 I was thinking about a combination of a light-bulb wifi camera outside, ideally one that also lights up so it's too hot to touch 19:30:55 I had a problem with that after moving in: some asshole literally came up and gutted my porch light 19:31:23 but with a bunch of cameras, I'd have to have some sort of centralized computer to view the feeds from 19:31:58 I also have some vague plans to build a custom alarm from some 120dB air horns, strobe lights, and maybe a siren or two 19:32:29 have a footplate under the front doormat that can be activated and deactivated by performing some esoteric arming procedure 19:32:47 the concealed smoke detector 'noir' camera 19:32:52 such as touching two separate and seemingly unrelated objects together such that they form an NFC connection. 19:33:20 And ultimately, my safety ends when I walk out that door. 19:33:51 need to watch more 'spy'movies 19:34:04 Plenty of people around here I'd gladly never run into for fear that they'd probably decide it would be prudent to kill me before I got the same idea with respects to them. 19:34:31 I _need_ to just get some parts, study them, and create a solution. 19:34:38 yup 19:35:00 Though it would all be a lot easier, I think, if I could just afford a crappy little house 19:35:12 then I could add the safety and comforts I really want 19:35:26 iron barred windows with steel shutters 19:35:39 safety doors on every entrance into the house 19:35:41 CCTV 19:35:48 you may not know it, but you use SONAR as much as any bat does. but you'rs is a passive sonar 19:36:00 and even some plates to stop people from knocking the pegs out of my door 19:36:23 I can believe it. Some blind folks can actually use sonar rather actively. 19:36:29 It's a skill they have to cultivate 19:37:13 but I saw a video about a fellow who learned to click in a specific frequency and could make out his environment well enough doing that such that he could ride a mountain bike through a patchy woodland. 19:37:30 That's a skill 19:37:43 I sometimes can discern strange things with my ears. 19:38:09 I thought I was becoming schizophrenic a couple of times living here because I'd start to hear faint radio stations 19:38:36 but one day I leaned close to one of my monitors and discovered that not only did it have speakers on it, they were, indeed, picking up AM traffic. 19:39:58 It came to me as a relief. 19:41:00 But it still happens, and I'm not sure whether it's always happening or if my hearing just becomes extremely acute after protracted episodes of insomnia 19:41:24 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 19:41:31 and that noir camera is fundamental to thermal imaging. 19:42:16 with respects to the interior Pi cams, I reckon I could make a few statues to hide the juicy bits in 19:42:20 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 19:42:20 --- nick: wa5qjh_ -> wa5qjh 19:42:54 maybe I should just take a few of my useless desk clocks apart and put the cameras into clock cases 19:43:32 or maybe concealed in a 'set top box' of some kind 19:43:57 Well, the big thing is getting a good set of angles 19:44:04 good idea 19:44:21 since, if it amounts to anything, i need a picture that can identify the people 19:44:48 perhaps i'll get one of those measurement charts they put next to the interiors of gas stations to get a height measurement 19:45:08 but you're looking at spening a bit of money you could spend on rent in a safer place. 19:45:26 oh well, I'll have to diagram good spots for cameras as part of my long-term redecoration efforts. 19:45:32 fruitless as they seem 19:45:48 I think that would pose risks of its own 19:46:04 realistically, the only place I could go from here would be out in the boonies 19:46:14 everywhere safer would have rents beyond my means 19:46:28 and this place hasn't raised my rate since I started living here 19:46:40 there ya go. but I think you said you rode the bus ? 19:46:46 which is the first time that has ever happened to me. 19:46:52 in Oregon 19:47:10 riding public transit here, what little of it we have, is a life and death game 19:47:15 you have a car then ? 19:47:22 Yes. 19:47:30 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 19:47:38 then you have some mobility 19:47:42 But it doesn't really increase my feeling of safety. 19:47:56 I mean, I won't even go to the grocery store during normal hours. 19:48:03 no, not meant for that. 19:48:21 The place is usually miserable with coke fiends, thieves, and maniuplative weirdos who always want something. 19:48:51 My cofounder and his old lady warned me when I moved to Oregon that I should not be surprised if people on the street just came up and made small talk with me. 19:49:02 Nobody talks to strangers here unless they want something. 19:49:40 you do have a job ? 19:49:48 no, I can't find one 19:50:08 and 3 years unemployed means that i'm kinda screwed unless I make one for myself. 19:50:29 At least if all the post '08 FUD about 2 years of unemployment being a self-blacklisting problem. 19:50:36 then you're gonna have to move sooner or later, better before your money totally runs out 19:50:37 i should probably be on disability. 19:50:42 not probably. 19:50:45 I should be. 19:50:54 It already has. 19:51:02 I live by grace of my Father. 19:51:42 otherwise I wager I'd have died of exposure in the Fall of 2015 19:52:02 It's one thing to burn out for a while 19:52:08 but I'm burned out on life 19:52:26 And have been for a while. 19:52:48 Got a pretty good yardstick for measuring my personal satisfation: the rate at which I fill up a sketchbook. 19:52:50 then even more important to get outa there NOW! 19:53:16 Closest out I can see is taking the GRE 19:53:21 critically important I\d think. 19:53:28 and standardized testing straight terrifies me. 19:53:46 But even if I leave, there's always the lingering fear: what if I leave and I'm still burned out. 19:54:00 I don't want to escape to graduate school and then fail out my first semester 19:54:37 for better or worse, I think that getting disability benefits and then trying to create some independent income sources I can sink into stocks is my best bet. 19:54:49 success depends on preparation. no diffferent from passing college testas to eventuyal graduation. 19:54:56 All the living in Portland in the world is no good if I'm just a broke ass graduate student 19:55:19 I gotta say, I went to college because it was expected of me, not because I knew what to expect of it. 19:55:25 I guess there's that element too 19:55:33 I don't really, precisely, love school 19:56:05 In fact, like most foolish young people I thought I'd have more time to enjoy my life when I graduated. 19:56:31 Never expected to have my first post-collegiate job change on me without the company notifying me prior to my first day on the job 19:57:32 If anyone asks whether or not you've worked "configuration management," look them in the eyes and say, "No." Pause for dramatic effect and then growl this line, "I hope that's a rhetorical question and not the nature of what you people brought me on for." 19:57:56 I've just got blacked out here AGAIN.. my UPS isnt gonna hold much longer. gotta shut down.. later!! 19:58:31 Alas, I'd never heard of it, and so as a freshly minted computer scientist I spent my days running makefiles, merging crap onto a VCS tree, and then burning the compiled software onto discs for delivery into the integration lab 19:58:59 gotta go.. 19:59:03 From 2008-the end of 2010, and for extended periods of time in the 8 months thereafter my entire job was pretty much that. 19:59:06 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 19:59:06 goodnight 20:00:49 I did nearly 4 years at that company, and during that time I went through a lot of really wild psychosis 20:01:46 but I didn't know I was damaged goods until I had saved up the next egg I felt would produce the result that I needed, which was to provide me with enough money to live without a job for a while as well as to pay some contractors and a very, very small core team and start a computer game company. 20:02:30 But that blew up in my face, so then a friend of mine was having to do a very unpleasant medical regiment and somehow I got suckered into taking the job on the belief that my employer, his Father, would do right by me. 20:02:56 Instead he took my contractual stipulations and wove them into a world of lies. 20:03:10 About what I should have expected from a man with two MDs 20:03:42 but his decisions were bad enough that I actually ended up breaking the house rule requirement to have health insurance 20:04:04 I thought I was gonna get it from him, but then he demanded that I spend 10 hours per week in his clinic. 20:04:15 Only took me two visits there to see that wasn't going to work. 20:04:47 MY roommate needed constant attention, the office he put me in was sandwiched with file cabinets that nurses stormed in and out looking for 20:05:11 and right next to the huge, immovable oak desk where he expected me to compute was a pile of chemotherapy drugs 20:05:33 one wrong swing with my leg extended could have smashed a box that was worth more than my probable lifetime earnings 20:06:03 beyond that, he was paying $15.00 per hour for the 20hr/1wk I requested of him 20:06:28 but he seemed to think I was gonna take on his IT frustrations when the man was a computer idiot beyond compare. 20:06:50 He had a real fancy Mac Pro, but only one login, which all of his office workers used 20:06:58 the same login he used to do the payrolls 20:07:29 the same login where he clicked some javascript driveby attack sent to him by way of his lawyer girlfriend and her apparent inability to stay out of a botnet 20:08:10 I wasn't gonna stand on the gallows in responsibility for such careless disregard of basic security practices 20:08:38 And, frankly, I don't do software engineering work for $15.00 an hour 20:08:50 Some souls out there probably do 20:09:20 I gotta admit, I'd have probably accepted that to work at a local computer repair store, but none of those places are hiring. 20:10:35 In fact, almost all of the ones that I know are staffing down and leaving their storefronts behind because the landlords around here seem to think that they can just raise the rents to unreasonable levels when a bar comes around and turns a single storefront on an entire block of abandoned urban blight into a popular night time bar and grill 20:11:09 Hell, wasn't too many months ago this year that they tore down the best Pizza joint in all of downtown to make a stupid, high-rise apartment building. 20:11:31 It is very unlikely to get any traction either because it's even closer to the projects than I am here 20:11:39 2 blocks instead of 4 20:12:23 And I already had some crackhead follow me home and try to con his way in here after my friend refused to give him, "fifty bucks for a blast" 20:13:20 he was so taken aback that my impoverished and equally unemployed friend refused this _perfectly fucking reasonable_ request that he decided to walk behind my car while I was backing out and raise his hand up to stop me from backing up 20:13:38 as if he could have stopped me if I'd decided to kick it in reverse and gun right over him. 20:13:44 But, turning radius prevailed 20:14:12 nevertheless, about 20 minutes later, a dude dressed like him comes to my door with a hoodie pulled tight over his face in the same was as those robbers 20:14:33 But he made the very curious error of standing in front of the peephole 20:14:40 the other guys ducked below it. 20:15:25 My friend got uppity and almost opened the door to go attack the guy with a knife, but I told him to stay back. 20:15:28 where do you live with all this depravity? 20:15:35 Birmingham, Alabama 20:15:38 the city proper 20:15:45 oh, i thought you said oregon 20:15:50 past times 20:15:53 I grew up here 20:15:57 and ended up back here 20:16:22 Nostalgia and new experience tainted my assessment of the place. 20:16:34 When I was a kid I could safely say I didn't know anything different. 20:17:13 I'd lived in pretty weird, scary, David Lynchian, fascist shit-heaps all my life before Portland, Oregon. 20:17:32 But the housing market in that town is beyond gentrified. It's just unreasonable. 20:17:55 And I guess that life here wasn't entirely bad working for the doctor and his son. 20:18:05 It has a distinctly feudalistic dynamic 20:18:20 The Dr. was the King, his son the Crown Prince, and me his personal vassal. 20:18:44 I'm loyal to the king, for without him I wouldn't have had a place in the castle nor my pittance of sheckels 20:18:53 but I was also duty bound to obey the prince 20:19:13 and when push came to shove, I played a double-role as the whipping boy 20:19:55 even after I stopped working for him I'd be hanging out with my friend and he'd just come out and accuse me of having conducted some sort of perfidious deed. 20:20:19 His son went psychotic, fell off the deep end, and trashed the house? My problem. 20:21:08 Accidentally getting shot while protecting my friend from killing himself while he was in the combined throes of withdrawal-induced psychosis coupled with his total inability to care for himself meaningfully. 20:21:20 And for my efforts I got fired 20:21:39 They said it was because my friend's fiancee was going to get out of jail and move back there to live with them soon. 20:21:52 But as it turned out he just replaced me in my function by hiring out friend Pat 20:22:19 who had been there for much of the downward slide and couldn't exactly have been said to have tried to put a stop to it. 20:22:26 ok um. i'm afraid i don't have enough spare cycles to follow/engage with this right now 20:22:30 He lasted two months. 20:22:39 Okay 20:22:45 That's nothing to apologize for 20:22:53 I'm windy and verbose 20:23:11 it makes a lot of people mad, so if anything I should thank you for being so polite about it :D 20:23:28 But the subject of my unemployment is definitely one that gets my blood boiling. 20:24:48 I think that once I've reorganized this whole apartment, added furniture and cameras, built up the network I want, organized my books onto shelves and built my big wall of old and new TVs and CRT monitors I'll probably be a little bit rosier. 20:25:11 As then I will be better-situated to start working on some money making schemes that interest me. 20:25:29 I'll be able to read again since I'll know where my books are 20:25:53 and with any luck a few of my fanciful ideas will become cashflows 20:39:38 --- join: DKordic (~user@93-86-179-131.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) joined #forth 20:47:47 --- quit: Chef_Gromboli_ (Quit: Leaving) 21:03:52 --- join: johnmark_ (~johnmark@d53-64-121-247.nap.wideopenwest.com) joined #forth 21:56:49 --- quit: DKordic (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/17.10.12