00:00:00 --- log: started forth/17.09.28 00:04:57 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 00:07:45 --- join: dys (~dys@2003:5b:203b:100:6af7:28ff:fe06:801) joined #forth 01:10:45 --- quit: MrBusiness (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 01:40:35 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 01:50:29 --- nick: la6ot -> mister 02:01:26 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 02:06:17 --- join: proteus-guy (~proteusgu@183.88.69.154) joined #forth 03:05:08 --- join: MrBusiness (~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:71ed:3638:7221:8579) joined #forth 03:29:53 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@183.88.69.154) joined #forth 03:29:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 03:52:21 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 03:55:21 --- quit: leaverite (Remote host closed the connection) 04:02:00 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:7189:816e:52e0:24a8) joined #forth 04:06:06 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 04:09:19 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 04:12:28 --- mode: crc set +o koisoke_ 04:14:03 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 05:33:59 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 06:19:27 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 06:23:10 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 06:53:01 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 07:00:11 --- join: Zarutian_PI2 (~3.1415@89.17.133.173) joined #forth 07:00:12 --- quit: Zarutian_PI (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07:00:16 --- nick: Zarutian_PI2 -> Zarutian_PI 07:02:15 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:7189:816e:52e0:24a8) joined #forth 07:06:43 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 09:26:00 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 09:35:28 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-113-89.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 09:39:49 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 09:46:52 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-112-1.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 10:47:35 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:7189:816e:52e0:24a8) joined #forth 11:24:40 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@184.22.251.240) joined #forth 11:24:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 11:41:28 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p4FE8CA60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 12:50:17 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Leaving. Have a nice time.) 12:50:45 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p4FE8CA60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 12:57:30 --- join: Pernille (~Pernille@55.92-220-69.customer.lyse.net) joined #forth 13:02:34 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Leaving. Have a nice time.) 13:11:07 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 13:11:59 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p4FE8CA60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 13:19:44 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 13:30:00 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-73-223-86-196.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:34:10 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:46:32 --- quit: Pernille (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 13:48:49 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Leaving. Have a nice time.) 13:57:02 --- join: Pernille (~Pernille@55.92-220-69.customer.lyse.net) joined #forth 14:16:10 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p4FE8CA60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 14:41:11 --- quit: kuwze (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15:02:20 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Leaving. Have a nice time.) 15:10:19 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 15:20:36 --- join: leaverite (~quassel@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 15:29:53 need help in the way of a recomendation. please dont take this as a trick or a trivial inquiry. i'm asking for a reccomendation for a version of forth for a middle-aged linux guy who has been studying several programming languages in college. My first thought is gnu or pfe forth. but i thought, since I've kinda been away for a while. somebody here would have a better idea. 15:33:49 leaverite: Have you considered a microcontroller forth? IMO forth is more interesting and fun when it controls hardware. 15:45:49 that was always my interest as well.but it was long ago.I meanlike over 40 years ago. still have an interest in forth just not as capable as i once was. 15:49:19 and i'm very embarased to find that what was really asked of me did turn out to be a bit trivial. however, if there's someone here that good in forth math and calculus, and likes a challenge,to pit forth against python, java etc. 15:50:04 here's a link; https://www.facebook.com/n/?ron.jensen.7798%2Fposts%2F1589283494466890&comment_id=1589799084415331&aref=1506618450283141&medium=email&mid=55a42a7f487b3G5af3462d1caeG55a42f18a8a85Gb7&bcode=2.1506618450.Abxj1NDCvHkRvdxor8E&n_m=wa5qjh%40xmission.com&lloc=1st_cta 15:51:03 i too, would like very much to see a forth answer to the challenge in forth. 15:54:29 leaverite: Your link just logged me out of facebook. 15:59:01 --- quit: Pernille (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 15:59:35 --- join: Pernille (~Pernille@55.92-220-69.customer.lyse.net) joined #forth 16:02:20 you should thank him 16:02:27 dang. I was in facebook but used that link on an empty + in firfox and came right up. 16:03:16 heh, maybe so hi hi.. 16:03:47 empty tab in firefox. 16:05:45 did you try a private/incognito tab? 16:27:17 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 16:49:54 pointfree: you mean the pr0n tab? 16:50:55 or pr0n mode, I mean 16:51:30 I have a funny story about that.. (not porn related) 16:51:35 I don't know what that is. 16:53:14 private browsing mode 16:53:18 pr0n mode 16:53:34 browsers don't actually call it porn mode :) 16:54:02 so like 16:54:19 I was at work once and they had some issues with session data and crap on the dev site 16:54:25 so I said, "try using porn mode" 16:54:28 and they knew exactly what I meant 16:58:00 sorry, got called away. no, it was not a private browse mode. just aplain ordinary empty tab. 17:00:22 --- nick: leaverite -> wa5qjh_ 17:02:23 can you still use the very old-fashioned 'screens' in forth/ or just on some versions / 17:02:42 oh btw if anyone is interested 17:02:52 I've been writing a Forth for the ZPC 16 instruction stack machine 17:02:58 so I can use forth on my fpgas 17:03:18 wa5qjh_: screens/blocks are part of ANS Forth, so they should work in many cases 17:03:49 I find some aspects of ANS forth kinda dumb 17:04:04 ; my keyboard needs replacing and hope to do that next week. in the meantime characters such as question mark ,parens etc. are un-available to me at the moment. please bear with me. 17:05:12 you know a couple weeks ago my wife sent me pictures of ~ 20 ancient keyboards they had at the office she works at. They told her to throw em away because they were useless 17:05:22 so she did that then sent me the pictures, they were all IBM Model Ms 17:05:25 .... 17:06:19 I've been away from Forth for a long time but have never lost my facination with it. 17:06:43 I am stdying forth for my semester project in a class I decided to take for fun 17:07:03 everyone else was editing my paper and was like this is way over my head wtf 17:07:19 it's a 3rd year CS class so it can't be that bad.. 17:07:50 my professor was like "this guy chose the best language ever to choose to study, besides lisp" 17:08:58 I bought a new one about 3 weeks ago. then a few days ago, got so frustrated with SIRI I had to have a wee jigger of glenfiddich to calm my aggressions. 17:09:50 siri is like the 2017 skynet right 17:09:53 that apple developed 17:10:37 so as i reached to put the cork back in the bottle, my pinkie finger knocked over the last jigger of scotch in the bottle. where did it go you ask, Well naturally, straight for the keyboard. which is now dead. 17:10:55 correct. 17:11:29 huh. keyboards shouldn't die from a simple water spill 17:11:46 in the past with non mechanicals I can just take the sleeves out and dry em 17:12:05 they've had it out for a while but i read no real development on it., googles, microsloth's cortanna, and others have been but siri just kinda lolly-gagging around. 17:12:24 did you try throwing it in the dish washer if you have one? 17:12:36 wasnt h20. single malt scotch. 17:12:39 alchohol evaporates at quite a low temp 17:12:51 should just burn out 17:13:08 specify h2o because whisky in gaelic means water. 17:13:27 but it leaves a residue just the same. 17:13:37 it could have been worse. It could have been the deadly dihydrogen monixide 17:13:44 a film. 17:14:36 heh heh. that would have been better had it been de-hydrated first. 17:16:04 or rather distilled. 17:17:39 my last effort to get back on forth ended in a typhoon. 17:18:05 was it named irma? 17:18:34 maybe you should stop programming at that point 17:18:36 XD 17:18:55 well, the local name was yolanda and was back in Nov. of '13 17:19:37 dang near wiped out Leyte and half of Samar philippines 17:20:12 I see 17:20:17 we don't get hurricanes 17:20:25 we get this fancy thing called a noreaster 17:21:48 i had a t.i. msp430 with 32kb non-volitile memopry and 1k volitile . It got to Catbalogan w. samar and the company that did fed-ex lost it's contract. just days before the typhoon. 17:22:10 i lost the chips.. 17:22:12 example: 17:22:13 https://www.theweathernetwork.com/news/articles/noreaster-live-track-the-storm-with-news-video-and-maps/23891 17:22:24 or rather fed-ex lost them. 17:22:30 noreasters are fun 17:22:41 especially when it's ice and not snow 17:23:21 http://www.goes.noaa.gov/sohemi/sohemiloops/shirgmscolw.html 17:23:27 you could call us crazy but our college doesn't cancel on days like that XD I still have to make the half hour drive to get through that 17:23:44 that is neat wa5qjh_ 17:23:47 you should try Fairbanks Alaska 17:24:07 heheh 17:24:18 is that in alaska right now? 17:25:26 they have posts in the parking lots with electrical outlets there. when you park, you go out and plug the electric blanket around you engine in to it. 17:25:45 heh 17:25:54 I'm on the opposite side in Maine 17:25:55 if you're gonna be gone more than 30 minutes. 17:27:13 also you put a piece of cardboard in front of your radiator cause if you're driving more than say, 10 or 20 mph, the wind chill will freeze the water even as hot as it might be. 17:27:38 heh 17:28:04 when it got below -40 we didnt have to goto work but even at -50 the school buses still ran 17:28:09 we use heavy antifreeze in the winter 17:28:21 it gets -40 here 17:28:36 the general at the base said if the school buses can run, so can you1 17:28:45 haha 17:29:13 --he was from Texas. So am i 17:29:20 heh 17:29:36 it's really not that bad 17:30:16 i lived in North Pole Alaska. yeah, the one the kids write to Santa to. 17:30:33 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-73-223-86-196.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:30:50 I've worked outside in -40 before. Long as you keep moving, frostbite isn't much of a problem.. some people from elsewhere disagree, but your blood thickens and gets used to it 17:31:06 between me and Eielson AFB there was a long bridge over a river bypass. 17:31:39 funny enough, my parents randomly drove from Maine to Alaska a couple years ago 17:31:41 you're familiar with all the cautions about driving over a bridge in freezing weather. 17:31:41 for the fun of it 17:32:03 they went up through canada and just drove all the way up and then up to the northern circle and a bit more 17:32:18 said the road stopped before they even got to the northern circle but they just kept going 17:32:34 at -30 or below, that ice is like steel. aint nuthin gonna slide on that. the bridge was safer than regular blacktop 17:32:52 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 17:33:15 heh 17:33:23 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-73-223-86-196.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:33:32 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 17:33:45 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-73-223-86-196.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:33:58 the snow up there is like talcum powder it's so dry 17:34:11 I imagine 17:34:55 and the roads are built up on a --what would you call it. a berm. anyway 5 or 6 feet down to flat land if you go off the side. 17:35:36 most of our closer to town roads are actually made on top of old logs and covered 17:35:43 the logs have been there for years and years and years 17:36:11 so when it snowsit's like a foot most likely or more. most of the cars will be on the right side of 2 lanes one way.. after a few cars, that's pretty clear. 17:37:25 but every now and then, some idiot in a pickup truck gets in a hurry and drives on the left lane. kicking up a tail of fine powdered snow that hangs in the air for several minutes and totally obscure both lanes 17:37:56 heh 17:38:32 you cant stop because the guy behind you cant see you, you cant go forward cause you cant see the road.. what dod you do/ you inch forward and pray, pray, pray 17:39:35 on sat. morning we went into fairbanks early and made it just fine. it was after a big snow the night before. 17:40:08 when we started home we passed a 20+car pile-up on the inbound lane. 17:40:40 no doubt in my mind some a-hole pulled that left lane stunt. 17:40:41 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) joined #forth 17:41:51 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 17:42:15 i got to where i'd drive down the middle with my left tires in the snow. i drove slow so i didnt kick up the long tail like the guys in the pickup did but it kept everybody a nice safe distance behind me. especially the guys in the pickups. 17:42:17 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-73-223-86-196.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:43:25 ok, enough digression. lng ago there was talk of a forth mcu chip. did anything ever come of that/ 17:45:34 much like you were talkin of that fpga project. 17:46:18 * jn__ is reminded of the J1 forth core 17:46:23 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17:51:29 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-73-223-86-196.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:02:28 elaborate on that j1 forth core 18:02:33 please. 18:04:01 read this: http://excamera.com/sphinx/fpga-j1.html 18:21:52 looking at the forth wikipedia description, it says forth is an imperitive.... language. what the heck they mean by that 18:23:27 they mean that you write sequences of instructions 18:23:43 i was telling a buddy about forth and he kinda choked on that 'imperitive' comment. he's no stranger to programming either. 18:24:01 rather than other kinds of descriptions of the problem or computation 18:24:21 imperative, though 18:24:24 that doesnt sound any different than any other language. 18:25:01 that you've seen 18:25:18 lazily evaluated functional languages such as Haskell are somewhat less imperative 18:25:30 i've seen a few. 18:25:36 Prolog is definitely not imperative 18:25:50 haskell ive never seen hi hi 18:26:05 or prolog that i remember. 18:26:18 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 18:27:08 wa5qjh, look into functional or declarative languages 18:27:38 and know that there's a good reason why almost every language you see isn't that 18:28:18 there was another pretty popular language that was rpn, word, and a few other characteristics like forth but it started with A. anybody remember the name. guess i'm gettin old 18:28:49 aorth 18:28:58 no 18:29:36 ibm was championing it at one time. hate when i cant remember. 18:30:15 my first game of star trek was written on it even. 18:30:28 back around late 70's 18:31:39 before I was born 18:31:50 heh 18:32:20 you thought i was kidding about getting old hi hi 18:32:55 no, I believe in old people 18:33:05 my first use of forth was on a commodore pet 18:33:27 APL? i think that's the other language you're trying to remember 18:33:45 apl isn't rpn, is it? 18:33:57 or forth-like, for that matter 18:34:16 I could be wrong, I haven't actually used it myself 18:34:23 i interfaced a general instruments spo-256-al2 to it han had it saying 'red alert' in just one screen and room there for more. 18:34:56 APL think you're right. it was a short name 18:34:57 gj I've also written software before 18:34:59 zy]x[yz: i'm not sure 18:37:32 yeah, think i remember it using greek letters a bit. 18:40:05 and the wikipedia article does describe what little i remember. apl wasnt totally forth-like, just had a few similarities. 18:41:00 time-shared computer check. ibm selectric, check.. 18:42:58 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-73-223-86-196.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:43:01 dang.. it's been nearly 50 years since i used it. whew.. 18:43:21 naw 45 best 18:45:39 ok, what's the general opinion of gforth or pfe forth 18:52:58 and does anybody remember 'target compiler' 18:54:35 for a particular version of forth 19:00:23 well this is interesting.. 19:00:35 do you guys know what an angle is? 19:02:27 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 19:02:57 what 19:03:09 is an angle 19:03:53 everybody has one and no two are alike. 19:04:10 no-wait, that's a navel. 19:04:38 ahaha 19:05:01 better stop there. that joke's going south rapidly. 19:05:02 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-73-223-86-196.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:05:04 so the reason why I say this is because, you learn what an angle is in early early gradeschool 19:05:31 but the problem is, an angle = arclength / radius 19:05:41 and arclength is defined by understanding calculus 19:05:55 you realize how long ago gradeschool is for me. 19:05:59 so in order to tryly realize what an angle is, you need to know calculus. 19:06:13 truly* 19:06:19 i see where you're going 19:06:22 so teachers literally lie anc cheat mathematics for us 19:06:27 and* 19:06:55 somehow we need geometry to learn calculus and we need calculus to learn geometry 19:06:56 XD 19:07:03 who put us in that boat 19:07:21 I did 19:07:34 you're welcome 19:07:53 rofl 19:08:11 besides gradeschool wasn't THAT long ago 19:08:55 was 4 me 19:09:10 an angle is angular velocity, integrated over time :) 19:09:26 jn__: see, calculus 19:09:28 XD 19:10:48 i had calculus for electronics when i was 40 19:11:17 37 years ago sheesh 19:11:33 no, 33 years ago 19:11:45 that wasn't very long 19:12:17 you see 19:12:26 so, nobody remembers so-called 'target compilers' for forth. 19:12:30 forth was around then 19:12:45 oh yeah 19:12:58 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 19:13:13 if you don't count the official name, it's almost 60ish now 19:13:19 crazy 19:13:44 so old it's new again. just like my jokes 19:13:50 heh 19:14:06 I should send Moore an email 19:14:46 so what do we have to do to make IT the NEW HOTNESS INSTEAD OF PYTHON OR rUST OR WHATEVER 19:15:19 tbh, I think people have been using computers wrong 19:15:24 ahh, advertising1 19:15:57 a month ago or so I gave up and have been awaiting for a friend to delive his 486 19:15:59 does FIG still print a 'bingo card' 19:16:01 itl be my new primary computer 19:16:03 wa5qjh_: a web framework 19:16:23 my TRS-80's RF modulator for video broke.. 19:16:36 wa5qjh_: and compiling to javascript. that's what kids like to see these days ;) 19:16:45 yeah what is that 19:17:09 one thing wrong with it getting popular again is everybody wanting to 'fix' it. 19:17:16 and Arduino IDE integration 19:17:27 that sounds like how Maine works 19:17:35 outsiders come here wanting to 'fix' maine 19:17:38 as if we're broken 19:17:43 and tell us what to do 19:17:57 and how not to just keep our junk cars on our lawns rotting away 19:18:05 promise i'll never do that 19:18:09 haha 19:18:11 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-73-223-86-196.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:18:32 it's a huge problem 19:18:56 rich people came to maine bought our paper mills and sold out to places obverseas 19:19:12 now towns are dissapearing and becoming township code numbers on your residential address. 19:19:40 we're slowly becoming alaska 19:19:55 where almost everyone lives in like one of two cities. 19:19:55 XD 19:19:59 and the rest is just deserted 19:20:13 Forth is only 2 years older than C. That's what I tell people who say "Forth is old" 19:20:27 that's just the name though 19:20:45 its developmental roots really started back in the late 50s 19:20:58 C has older roots, too 19:21:02 I suppose you couldn't call that forth though 19:21:03 yeah.. 19:21:34 just like Austin Texas. many years ago it was advertised as the lowest cost of living in the US so everybody from up north moved there. bringing all their hi prices and attitude with them. then they wanted tocall themselves Texans 19:21:42 (although even K&R C looks alien today) 19:22:48 somewhere i've still got a K and C book. 19:22:57 kinda thin really. 19:23:10 k and r that is. 19:24:27 des anybody remember xpl 19:25:03 I'm not really much a fan of C. I use it in computer engineering applications a lot, from school and personal for small things but almost every time I want to use C I have no standard library, and even then it's just better to use assembly in my cases more often than not 19:25:46 --- quit: Pernille (Quit: Leaving) 19:25:55 that's what you need a target compiler for 19:26:18 well lately I've been getting waist deep into Forth 19:26:28 and tbh I wish I started with it 19:26:48 if I had understood it back when I was young and had the coco2 trs-80, I could easily have made my own 19:26:49 write your application in forth, run it thru the target compiler to make a stand alone binary. 19:26:56 because extended color basic was CRAP 19:28:04 I THINK I HAD TO BUY THE TARGET CMPILER SEPAQRATE FOR MY COMMODFORE PET FORTH. DANG CAPS KEY 19:29:05 One thing that gets to my curiosity 19:29:14 the cheap alternative to a target compiler seems to be to write the state of the forth interpreter out to disk after it compiled the program 19:29:18 a lot of architectures only have one stack 19:29:23 yet forth still existed just fine 19:29:50 FatalNIX: if you have pointers, you can emulate stacks just fine 19:29:55 right 19:30:02 but there's a performance cost there 19:30:07 or,since you're good at assembly, write yourself a 'dire3ct threaded interpreter' 19:30:34 direct threaded is nice 19:30:50 hm 19:30:52 i wrote one in HP Rocky Mountain Basic a long time ago. 19:31:03 I'm looking to port Forth on the ZPU, a single stack stack machine 19:31:12 curious if I should go indirect or direct 19:31:22 been struggling to do it again tho. 19:31:37 in any lang. including assembler 19:32:30 i took work a buddy did on a6809 and translated it to 6502 19:33:14 do the direct first 19:33:34 much smaller kernel 19:34:15 and easier to translate the kernel to do the things you're doing in assembler with. 19:34:26 if that makes any sense 19:34:37 my unfinished forth project is a forth for RISC-V. i should work on it again 19:36:01 i've wanted to do a direct in 6812 since it's so slose to a 6809. 19:36:33 ccbh 19:36:48 but i just keep bogging down 19:38:02 6809 has the greatest 'next' instruction. a jmp doublle indexed thru the x or y register. 19:38:20 indexed, indirect 19:39:11 even the 680x0 doesnt have it. at least not as such. 19:40:09 cat was on the keyboard 19:40:37 that and 6809 had two stacks 19:40:46 my coco trs-80 had a 6809 19:40:57 I shoulda made a forth for it... still could 19:41:04 Fatal- what do you do assembler in 19:41:12 what cpu 19:41:41 my favorite is 6502, but it usually ends up being ARM, I've done a little AVR assembly 19:41:54 16 bit ARM thumb really is crap though 19:42:03 I hate writing in assembly for thumb, it's so cumbersome 19:42:39 I can do the same load/store crap on a 6502 with fewer instructions 19:43:25 6502. man. that's ancient. 19:44:09 i did 650-2 assembler on my Pet in '79 19:44:19 6502 19:44:31 It's not so bad. I prefer to use them for personal projects. The WDC 65C02 is actually available in a small non dip package 19:44:43 it's very easy to make a PCB layout for them 19:45:05 and the Acme assembler is fantastic 19:45:37 AVR is another good choice for small applications except; the data bus is unidirectional 19:45:40 i dont think you can even find a 6809 any more, but if you could, with that next , it would be awesome. 19:45:51 in order to change from input to output you need to waste cycles to change the direction of the pins 19:45:55 really dumb imo 19:45:59 6809 can do 8,16, or 32bit addressing. 19:46:18 I might dig out my TRS-80 19:46:50 there ya go... 19:46:51 in order for it to work I would need to do something to get the code there. I could create my own assembler in basic, or I could somehow figure out the damn AFSK protocol 19:47:01 does it still work 19:47:10 I have two of them 19:47:15 one of them the RF modulator broke 19:47:19 it's just snow 19:47:33 bummer 19:47:38 the other has regular color basic on it but I think it still can write machine code to memory 19:47:50 and use loadM / saveM or whateve rit was 19:47:56 to save and load machine code from audio casette 19:48:09 I still have the tape recorder and the adaptor for the motor control for it 19:48:17 plus some tapes I found.. 19:48:54 I don't have a floppy drive for it, but I don't think they were compatible with other drives anyways 19:49:39 wa5qjh_: you're in luck 19:49:46 you can still get 6812's from freescale, i think. it's pretty darn close to 6809 but doesnt quite do the next as I described 19:49:48 you don't need to buy a 6809 19:50:05 https://github.com/cavnex/mc6809 19:50:20 verilog hdl for 6809 apparently. I do have a lattice FPGA I got for like $10 19:50:27 but assmeblers means of sending files from pc to dev. board are directly available 19:51:09 huh.. you can still get 6809's 19:51:31 how about a dev. board 19:52:41 with a development board you wouldnt need a tv/monitor 19:58:24 he says 6809's seem still available and will be for some time. 19:59:21 but, heck, you'd spend some serious time designing a new board for it. 20:02:30 I have something close to a 6809 dev board 20:02:35 it's an M68HC11 20:02:46 got the manual for it and everything, still works- but it's not a 6809 20:03:51 hey11 that should be good11 think the '11 still had the jmp instruction i described. 20:04:24 but i cant remember for sure. even so, it would be probably the best bet. 20:04:29 jn__: `I dunno if it has two stakcs though which would increase performance.. 20:04:49 I should get that thing going.. 20:04:57 I've never used it beyond the program that came on it 20:05:07 --- quit: ZombieChicken (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 20:05:19 i dont remember either. never had an '11, have a '12 tho but havnt looked at it in several years 20:09:09 FatalNIX: riscv arguably has not even one stack. you just point a register at stuff, and there's one stack pointer register by convention 20:09:18 bet you could do the core in less than 20 instrucctions max. 20:09:31 jn__: at least on the 6502 you have a zero page 20:09:38 so that having a return stack can be very fast 20:09:56 I hear there's a new riscv board ou there 20:10:11 yeah, i remember that much, at least. 20:10:44 i used zero page in my DTI implementation. 20:11:24 for both return and data stack 20:11:57 FatalNIX: yes, there's now a second (and significantly smaller) board with the SiFive FE310 chip 20:12:04 "lofive" 20:12:14 hm 20:12:45 what are those 20:13:27 wow the lofive is tiny 20:13:34 https://groupgets.com/campaigns/353-lofive-risc-v 20:13:45 and cheap 20:14:52 what's so great about these new risc-v's? 20:15:00 wa5qjh_: RISC-V (V = five) is more or less the fifth RISC designed at UC Berkeley, and has grown into a rather big project with biannual conferences and stuff: https://riscv.org/ 20:16:32 for big chip companies i guess the (lack of) licensing costs makes it better than ARM. other than that i'm not yet sure how excited i should feel about RISC-V 20:17:57 I'm looking at the developers instruction set manual 20:18:00 it's.. 20:18:11 (and hobbyists may implement RISC-V on an FPGA and publish the code without getting sued. i guess that's also better than with ARM) 20:18:12 I don't know, I feel like RISC-V is too complicated (like ARM) 20:18:19 do we really need such overcomplicated things? 20:18:40 FatalNIX: the instruction encodings are certainly nasty 20:19:18 one of my biggest complaints these days is that computers are just becoming too complex 20:19:34 i'm not alll that familiar with it, but wonder if maybe the easy availabilty and popularity of the arduino might be a better bet for develping a forth and or DTI for. 20:20:08 I dislike AVR becaise the data IO is unidirectinal 20:20:14 unidirectional* 20:20:19 it's an 8bit and i cant see that it's any better instruction set that the mc6808 even 20:20:32 it's really slow when you need to do bidirectional data 20:20:43 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 20:21:07 wa5qjh: the ZPU is quite amazing.. 20:21:14 but really is only available on an FPGA 20:21:39 I do have a Xilinx spartan 3 dev board I could put it on.. the lattICE40 is a bit small.. 20:22:05 with ZPU almost all forth primatives can be written with a single instruction 20:22:13 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 20:22:15 being fpga you could make the i/o work however you want, i'd think. 20:22:21 for example on a ZPU, + is implemented as follows: 20:22:27 : + CODE ADD END.CODE ; 20:22:34 since it's a stack machine 20:22:40 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-73-223-86-196.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:22:57 it also has nice instructions like pushpc and poppc 20:23:05 that's nice11 20:23:32 yeah. I think it's neat because it only requires 16 instructions to be implemented out of the full 60 about in the spec 20:23:42 and if you dont have an instruction it has an instruction called EMULATE 20:23:55 which apparently uses other instructions to compensate for the lack of afaik 20:24:09 regular forth extenibility... 20:24:32 I do not have a programming cable for the spartan 3 20:24:36 it's expensive iirc 20:24:53 builds/does 20:25:26 I also have a xilinx PowerPC based FPGA.. 20:25:29 which is huge 20:25:56 that thing has sata and ddr and crazy crap on it 20:25:57 back to the hc11 hi hi 20:26:01 lol 20:26:11 the hc11 is serial programmed I think 20:27:19 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 20:31:31 I know this guy who apparently emulated the zpu for a minecraft like game called minetest 20:31:33 hm 20:31:37 I could try putting forth on that 20:31:46 minetest is just a C++ compile away 20:40:05 yes, serial interface programmed assembler in binutils emulator out there somewhere. cant remember .. 20:51:13 if you dont have a copy of c.moore's book, where's the best place to go for tutorial on how to learn forth/ 20:58:35 Starting Forth (the web edition) made a good impression on me 20:58:47 but i haven't read it all the way 21:02:48 already found a link to it 21:03:07 wonder if it's been updated from the original blue book 21:04:33 there's also this one Ijust downloaded http://www.wulfden.org/downloads/Forth_Resources/SP_ProgrammingForth.pdf 21:08:36 Thinking Forth is interesting, but it's more about the software development process 21:14:09 i can barely remember it but vaguely remeber thinking forth. 21:15:01 save me from typing it. look up ' 21:15:44 'I Was Born About 10,000 Years Ago 21:18:36 elvis' version not exactly like the one i know, but gets the point across 21:23:33