00:00:00 --- log: started forth/17.09.10 00:05:03 --- quit: mnemnia (Remote host closed the connection) 00:05:23 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:c9d8:ac17:fdf3:d12e) joined #forth 00:12:54 --- quit: rtmanpages (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 02:19:03 --- join: rtmanpages (~rtmanpage@211.sub-174-204-6.myvzw.com) joined #forth 02:55:12 --- join: smokeink (~smoke@221.7.252.115) joined #forth 02:56:00 --- quit: smokeink (Client Quit) 03:20:26 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:29:36 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-122-83.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 03:52:34 --- quit: leaverite (Remote host closed the connection) 03:52:34 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 03:59:13 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 03:59:49 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:c9d8:ac17:fdf3:d12e) joined #forth 04:04:04 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 04:08:09 --- quit: deep-thought (Quit: Leaving) 04:34:41 --- join: deep-thought (~deep-thou@2001:8003:f064:400:f66d:4ff:fe58:ff4b) joined #forth 04:50:59 --- quit: Zarutian_PI (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 04:51:01 --- join: Zarutian_PI2 (~3.1415@89.17.133.173) joined #forth 04:55:34 --- nick: Zarutian_PI2 -> Zarutian_PI 05:40:38 --- quit: deep-thought (Quit: Leaving) 06:13:38 --- quit: MrBusiness (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:16:49 --- join: MrBusiness (~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:8007:e6a6:3e2d:98d0) joined #forth 09:04:52 --- join: johnmark_ (~johnmark@173.15.15-84-elmhurst.il.chicago.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 09:31:49 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 09:56:00 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 10:06:03 --- quit: ASau (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.2.1)) 10:25:08 --- join: rixard (~rixard@h-103-65.A444.priv.bahnhof.se) joined #forth 11:00:21 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:c9d8:ac17:fdf3:d12e) joined #forth 11:04:42 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 11:13:49 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:c9d8:ac17:fdf3:d12e) joined #forth 12:18:08 --- nick: golgotha -> rprimus 12:36:15 --- quit: rixard (Quit: rixard) 12:44:16 --- quit: johnmark_ (Quit: Leaving) 12:47:58 --- quit: karswell_ (Remote host closed the connection) 12:49:16 --- join: karswell_ (~user@194.91.199.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 14:03:46 --- join: roundsf` (~user@2a00:2381:1a72:10:10f2:3ea2:fd9f:ef09) joined #forth 14:07:55 --- quit: roundsf (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 14:31:20 --- quit: MrBusiness (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:37:31 --- join: MrBusiness (~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:ad6c:2bfb:bd7f:e91c) joined #forth 14:46:29 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 14:57:35 --- join: johnmark_ (~johnmark@d53-64-121-247.nap.wideopenwest.com) joined #forth 15:03:00 reepca: DO is the part that sets up indices, and LOOP is the part that provides backwards jump. Try to elaborate your idea better. 15:05:13 s/backwards branch/backwards branch target 15:09:16 Not clear. 15:10:18 If you wish, you can rework it into DO' ... REPEAT , but why? 15:10:36 DO also sets up the backwards branch target 15:10:51 which is really just leaving an address on the stack 15:10:52 So what? 15:11:14 I want the place we jump to each loop and the place the indices get set up at to be separate. 15:11:14 so I'm responding to this < reepca> s/backwards branch/backwards branch target 15:11:26 ah 15:11:43 I was clarifying from a message way back in the log 15:12:23 reepca: it isn't clear why (the purpose) and how (the implementation) you're going to accomplish that. 15:12:33 "Do" does a lot of things. 15:12:54 I actually did something kind of like that in mine with a word for writing inverted begin-while-repeat loops called -repeat (not entirely happy with that word) 15:13:14 that is, -repeat then until 15:13:30 enters the loop at then 15:14:53 For start, even if you manage to implement such a thing in a practical way, I don't see clear benefit. 15:15:21 The reason is so that stack manipulation prior to do loops can be simplified since there are 2 less items to deal with. The implementation involves just splitting it into two words, one which sets up the indices and one which is basically BEGIN. 15:16:02 Do you understand that you will need to manipulate indices explicitly after such a split? 15:17:30 Your loops will become something like: 10 0 (first) begin (next) i . i' . repeat 15:19:12 Your loops will become more complicated. 15:23:16 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 15:28:13 10 0 indices

i . loop 15:28:24 I don't see why explicitly manipulating indices is necessary. 15:30:59 --- join: w0ndelig (~w0ndelig@213-64-166-106-no41.bredband.skanova.com) joined #forth 15:33:50 What is ? 15:36:11 arbitrary sequence of data stack manipulation words. 15:36:33 or any other necessary setup that doesn't affect wherever indices are held. 15:38:05 --- quit: w0ndelig (Quit: Leaving) 15:40:12 Why is it needed? 15:40:19 How frequently? 15:40:29 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 15:40:35 How is it better than "2>r ... 2r> do ... loop"? 15:42:50 less wasteful. "go to some other place, do something, come back, then go to another place" is wasted steps compared to "go to some other place, do something". 15:44:00 Less wasteful in which manner? 15:44:38 What I see is that you want to introduce two more different words to address a problem met with zero frequency. 15:50:09 Wastes less CPU cycles, less words, less memory. 15:50:41 If I hadn't met the problem, I wouldn't have mentioned it. 15:52:04 If you want to waste less CPU cycles, drop Forth. 15:52:33 Even considering Forth you should provide better support for your point. 15:54:06 "Sufficiently smart compiler"(R) will rearrange the code in such a manner that it won't matter how you write it. 15:54:34 What is important is that compilers do that since mid-80ies. 16:14:56 Alright then, bogo sort it is. 16:17:33 a sufficiently smart compiler will turn it into quicksort or something 17:34:05 --- quit: karswell_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:43:07 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) joined #forth 17:44:59 --- quit: nighty- (Remote host closed the connection) 17:46:28 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) joined #forth 18:21:26 --- join: leaverite (~quassel@175.158.225.200) joined #forth 18:21:26 --- quit: leaverite (Changing host) 18:21:26 --- join: leaverite (~quassel@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 18:21:48 --- nick: wa5qjh -> leaverite1 18:22:32 --- nick: leaverite -> wa5qjh 18:32:35 The Vintage Computer Festival Midwest (VCFMW) was this weekend and what did we do. We talked about forth some. 18:35:35 For a list if computer festivals check out: http://www.glensideccc.com/calendar/index.shtml 19:13:56 --- join: parsnip (~parsnip@unaffiliated/parsnip) joined #forth 19:17:47 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 19:17:47 --- quit: leaverite1 (Remote host closed the connection) 19:20:44 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 19:21:32 --- join: leaverite (~quassel@175.158.225.200) joined #forth 19:21:32 --- quit: leaverite (Changing host) 19:21:32 --- join: leaverite (~quassel@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 20:18:08 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 21:00:42 --- quit: Bunny351 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:22:12 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:c104:70f6:bd67:ab6) joined #forth 21:23:55 --- join: Bunny351 (~Bunny351@p4FD2E079.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 21:24:10 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 21:24:26 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:c104:70f6:bd67:ab6) joined #forth 21:53:36 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-122-98.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 22:49:26 --- quit: MrBusiness (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/17.09.10