00:00:00 --- log: started forth/17.08.29 00:32:14 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 00:43:00 --- join: dys (~dys@2003:5b:203b:100:6af7:28ff:fe06:801) joined #forth 01:38:21 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 03:03:36 --- quit: ZombieChicken (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:04:37 --- join: ZombieChicken (~ZombieChi@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard) joined #forth 03:47:36 --- quit: clog (^C) 03:47:36 --- log: stopped forth/17.08.29 03:47:47 --- log: started forth/17.08.29 03:47:47 --- join: clog (~nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 03:47:47 --- topic: 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN | Forth Standards at http://forthworks.com/forth | www.greenarraychips.com | https://github.com/mark4th' 03:47:47 --- topic: set by crc!sid2647@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bvbpvizerlziiwww on [Wed Apr 19 13:11:34 2017] 03:47:47 --- names: list (clog ZombieChicken dys mtsd leaverite wa5qjh Bunny351 zy]x[yz jedb fiddlerwoaroof DGASAU C-Keen johnmark_ tangentstorm MrBusiness adyer karswell_ Quozl bedah reepca rpcope Zarutian_PI APic jn__ sigjuice z0d groovy2shoes roundsf`` djinni_ Keshl ggherdov` nerfur jeremyheiler pdewacht a3f ovf phadthai rprimus xek midre dograt koz_ saon zignig irsol larsb dzho @koisoke M-jimt izabera malyn diginet2 pointfree1 ecraven yunfan_ ncv bavier pointfree lonjil rgrinberg carc) 03:47:47 --- names: list (@crc) 04:05:44 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 04:05:44 --- quit: leaverite (Remote host closed the connection) 04:20:18 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) joined #forth 04:22:54 --- quit: nighty- (Remote host closed the connection) 05:20:09 Can anyone comment on how useful forth-mode is for emacs? 05:33:17 I haven't use it 05:33:20 used* 05:34:06 I think it's mainly for gforth 05:34:06 --- join: ZombieCh1cken (~ZombieChi@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard) joined #forth 05:34:14 I think it's mainly for gforth 05:34:30 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 05:35:35 Ok 05:35:54 --- quit: ZombieChicken (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 05:35:57 --- nick: ZombieCh1cken -> ZombieChicken 05:36:14 Hate it when my modem reboots 05:36:33 z0d: You only said it was for gforth, right? I didn't miss anything prior to that? 05:36:52 just that I haven't tried it 05:37:06 ok 05:37:17 ty 06:35:25 --- quit: mtsd () 07:22:57 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@2405:9800:b408:bc31:28db:4234:4232:6949) joined #forth 07:22:57 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 07:53:10 ZombieChicken: I've used it a bit. I can't say it always indents my code the way I'd like. 07:53:36 other than that, the code highlighting is helpful 07:57:55 ty 09:47:51 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@ppp83-237-173-140.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 10:15:32 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 10:27:58 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@2405:9800:bc10:1ca:28db:4234:4232:6949) joined #forth 10:27:58 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 10:31:32 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 10:42:06 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-122-1.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 12:00:19 --- quit: djinni_ (Quit: Leaving) 12:03:48 --- join: djinni (~djinni@68.ip-149-56-14.net) joined #forth 13:14:57 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:29:52 --- join: rtmanpages (~rtmanpage@53.sub-174-204-13.myvzw.com) joined #forth 13:54:01 --- join: Uniju (~frog_styl@cpe-74-78-4-232.mass.res.rr.com) joined #forth 13:54:02 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:55:42 --- join: dys (~dys@tmo-112-37.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 14:10:02 ZombieChicken: not much useful since code highlighting is wrong, unless you're doing something really trivial. 14:10:55 Indentation style follows Algol family convention, which deviates a lot from canonical style (if you can call anything canonical in Forth at all). 14:14:28 On the other hand, if you're willing to write Forth, you must be fine with writing very bad FORTRAN II in postfix notation. 14:18:08 I'm not sure why syntax highlighting is something you'd even want for Forth. 14:18:13 But that's just me. 14:38:58 I tried to go without it, but it just makes something cryptic even more difficult to look at for me 15:18:07 --- quit: Uniju (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 15:18:14 koz_: since you have no grammar, you want something that adds more structure to your code. 15:18:23 That's why there's indentation in the first place. 15:19:05 --- quit: reepca (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:19:12 --- join: Uniju (~frog_styl@cpe-74-78-4-232.mass.res.rr.com) joined #forth 15:19:52 Humans indent code in some special way despite writing in free-form languages. 15:33:21 hmm.. I heard of highlighting in in Forth editor where the colour indicated if a word was an immediate one, a constant or a literal and so on. 15:36:00 It is completely different system. 15:36:28 Different syntax. 15:36:58 nono, I am not talking about colorforth here. 15:37:28 it was just the code editor running ontop of a Forth that had that option. 15:37:57 It is quite hard to make it work for non-trivial programs. 15:38:04 (And impossible in principle.) 15:39:11 what? Looking up a word in the system where the editor is running to see if it is immediate, has DOCONST or DOVAR or such as first cell is hard? 15:39:49 Yes. 15:39:56 It is impossible. 15:40:43 perhaps when you are just parsing text files offline but when you have live system and intorregate it in this Smalltalk-ish way then no, it is rather easy 15:41:02 Even if you're parsing it online. 15:42:00 why is that impossible? 15:42:43 Because code controls parser, and the language is turing-complete. 15:50:10 DGASAU: I never said indentationw as a bad idea. 15:50:22 I said I didn't get why you'd want syntax highlighting in Forth. 15:51:27 I think I already know the answer to this question, but is there a style guide for FORTH? 15:52:13 ZombieChicken: there exists a number of style guides. 15:52:23 Essentially, everyone invented his own style. 15:52:29 I think for almost all languages, styles vary a lot. 15:52:38 There are some conventions that are more common than others, though. 15:52:55 koz_: Lisp seems to have a One True Style that seems to just be what everyone uses. 15:53:02 In Algol family styles vary a lot less than in Forth. 15:53:10 ZombieChicken: yeah there is: be self consistent. 15:53:15 ZombieChicken: Lisp is not a language - it's a family of languages. Common Lisp is written very differently to Scheme, for example. 15:53:33 koz_: Not from what I've seen. The suggested style for both is the same 15:53:37 Also what Zarutian_PI said. 15:53:49 ZombieChicken: We must have been looking at very different languages, because that's definitely not the case. 15:54:00 Scheme has the ! and ? naming conventions, for instance; Common Lisp doesn't. 15:54:06 ZombieChicken: you must have seen very few code then. 15:54:13 Recursion is much more pervasive in Scheme than in Common Lisp. 15:54:23 Those are two big stylistic differences. 15:54:39 Recursion doesn't affect style. 15:54:46 I could be wrong; I just woke up and havn't had my coffee yet 15:54:49 "!" and "?" conventions do to some extent. 15:55:13 DGASAU: Yes, it does. If your style guide discourages explicit looping, your code will look very different from code which encourages it. 15:55:45 It has nothing to do with style. 15:56:13 Is koz_ using some weird characters for some things? I'm just seeing some squares before "courages" 15:56:58 ZombieChicken: Italics. DGASAU: I disagree, but then we'd have to argue what 'style' means. 15:57:15 koz_: What you're saying is that if your _program_design_ style favours explicit looping, you'll have loops instead of sometimes artificial recursion. 15:57:15 koz_: Ah, hrm. 15:57:17 So I'm happy to concede the point, being no less correct with respect to ZombieChicken's statements. 15:57:27 This has nothing to do with _typographic_ style. 15:57:29 guess my term doesn't like that for some weird reason 15:57:36 ZombieChicken: What's your terminal? 15:57:43 koz_: urxvt 15:57:45 DGASAU: Sure, point conceded, whatever. 15:58:12 ZombieChicken: Ah, that'd be why. 15:58:26 Might be the chain of crap i'm running irssi in, too 15:58:43 ZombieChicken: no, the problem is that koz_ doesn't follow common protocol. 15:58:57 I also see some garbage. 15:59:12 DGASAU: You and ZombieChicken are literally the first people who have had issues with italics in my terminal. 15:59:47 koz_: more likely that everyone else didn't tell you. 16:00:00 DGASAU: Not impossible. 16:00:36 I wouldn't tell either, if ZombieChicken wouldn't start it. 16:01:45 (Spending almost a whole month without English affects grammar skills...) 16:03:57 --- join: Chef_Gromboli (~Chef_Grom@static-72-88-80-103.bflony.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 16:04:31 I consider a terminals inability to render a character a fairly serious failing, and since I have unifont installed I generally expect it to render most anything. I thought it was something broken on my end 16:06:03 things are fine in uxterm now, so life is good, I guess 16:09:32 Does it render all letters in the following set correctly? 16:09:34 ԐԑԒԓԔԕԖԗԘԙԚԛԜԝԞԟ 16:09:34 ԠԡԢԣԤԥԦԧԨԩԪԫԬԭԮ 16:24:12 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 17:14:25 DGASAU: Nope 17:14:49 I think something has messed up with my fonts, so I'm not a suprised 17:45:26 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 18:17:41 --- join: leaverite (~Thunderbi@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 18:18:57 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 18:18:58 --- nick: leaverite -> wa5qjh 18:22:29 --- join: leaverite (~quassel@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 19:33:30 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) joined #forth 19:35:14 --- quit: Chef_Gromboli (Quit: Leaving) 20:15:42 --- quit: Bunny351 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 20:54:13 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 20:57:17 --- quit: karswell_ (Remote host closed the connection) 21:11:49 --- join: Bunny351 (~Bunny351@p4FD2CF5D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 21:26:57 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@180.183.115.189) joined #forth 21:26:57 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 22:37:26 --- quit: nighty- (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 22:48:16 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) joined #forth 23:10:09 --- join: wa5qjh_ (~quassel@freebsd/user/wa5qjh) joined #forth 23:50:10 --- quit: wa5qjh_ (Remote host closed the connection) 23:52:56 --- nick: leaverite -> wa5qjh_ 23:53:37 --- nick: wa5qjh -> leaverite 23:53:51 --- nick: wa5qjh_ -> wa5qjh 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/17.08.29