00:00:00 --- log: started forth/17.06.10 00:34:28 MrBusiness: Please tell me when You find anything :) . 01:03:42 I shall tell you if I come across anything 01:04:09 Frankly, I'm reasonably confident that I could probably accomplish something similar with ColorForth and an Intel ComputeStick 01:04:31 since that would satisfy the x86 requirement for ColorForth and the Pocket Computer requirement 01:04:45 thus providing an alternative Pocket Forth machine 01:05:36 Reckon I'd probably need to write a small SDK lib for saving/loading words to/from the device's storage/SDXC 01:06:37 I'm intent on trying to sell some crap sooner or later to invest in a GreenArrays demonstration board to play with 01:07:15 as those look like they could be a lot of fun to play with given their purported, small0GPU-esque core counts per processor 01:09:18 Only things i'm not clear on is where one gets display from on those boards (it seems as though it only gets display over Serial, which, hm. I also haven't compared the dimension to various ATX-derivative form factors to figure out what kind of enclosure to put it in, short of just drilling some standoffs in a generic project box and then carving out some fan holes with metric hole saws to ventilate the project box 01:09:29 But that seems sort of cheap 01:09:59 rather get a tacky Mini ATX tower any spraypaint it two colors of green to fit the theme of its internals 01:11:17 More than likely though, even if I do get a tower for it I'll probably need to find myself an ancient laptop with RS232 and possibly parallel port to act as the interface machine 01:11:41 Guess if I can find an IBM-era Thinkpad on CraigsList that would do the trick 01:12:13 unless I can somehow set JohnTheRipper loose on my current two IBMs that unfortunately have BIOS passwords I don't know 01:13:40 Or my dumb Toshiba Satellite ultrabook if it has the two jumpers one can use to short the BIOS and clear its password, but since it's an ultrabook I'd probably have to get some kind of janky usb 2 to RS232 and Parallel port conversion cables 01:14:50 Perhaps the Startech.com USB 2.0 KVM Crash Cart Adapter with File Transfer might be a good peripheral to interface with the board if it has a VGA port 01:14:52 MrBusiness: Why not a USB2UART? 01:15:03 I've never really messed with an ART 01:15:05 UART 01:15:11 nor an i2C 01:15:30 nor any of those other interfaces that people tend to use to unbrick small electronics 01:15:38 sort of outside my realm of experience 01:16:00 closest i came to that was back when I was trying out ZipIt Z2 Wireless hacks 01:16:01 AFAIK RS232 is just obsolete voltage levels for UART. 01:16:10 Ah, interesting 01:16:18 Guess I shall look into that 01:16:31 frankly, i should just pull up the diagram for that GreenArrays board 01:18:19 I mean, realistically, if I can get FreeDOS 1.1 to vacate from my Acer Aspire Revo and replace it with ColorForth that would probably work well as a dedicated ColorForth machine, and it was only 200.00 new thanks to some Kaspersky deal, and the fact that it houses a 1st gen atom with 1GB of RAM shared by the NVidia Ion GPU 01:18:43 Fondly remembered as my first full-on Ubuntu machine 01:19:14 and my test workhorse for checking the performance of things to ensure that they'd run at least on a Pentium 4 01:19:54 One of the short-lived breed of "Nettops" to complement the "Netbooks" of the era (2009?) 01:20:27 Though I guess the nettop still lives on in the form of Zotac ZBoxes and similar designs 01:20:39 sort of user-unfriendly like laptops though 01:21:31 I haven't a clue how I'd go about disassembling that Revo, which would be the optimal thing to do. Only viable upgrade for it is to replace its clunky, bog-standard 5400RPM HDD with a cheapo 500GB SSD 01:22:00 And that, incidentally, would probably solve my FreeDOS problems on that machine 01:22:13 I dunno why but FreeDOS really seems to dig in like a tick 01:23:21 Sorry, can You rephrase :) . I don't know english that well. 01:23:37 Need to get off of my duff and read how to construct a full installation of FreeDOS 1.2 on a bootable USB drive so I can use it to reflash BIOSes from certain vendors that somehow think that it's okay to permit BIOS reflashing only via Windows and DOS (EVGA, I'm glaring at you >:[ ) 01:23:57 Hm, which statement would you like to have rephrased? The tick one? 01:24:26 Also, what is your preferred language of discourse? 01:24:41 I only know English, shamefully 01:25:00 Yes, ``dig in like a tick''. English :) . 01:25:18 Learned numerous computer languages over the years, but between French and Spanish classes I'm amazed I didn't flunk out of Middle and High school respectively 01:25:21 Ah 01:25:33 Well, you know, a tick is a little blood sucking insect 01:25:43 that actually burrows its head under your skin to suck your blood 01:25:50 and they're really tough to get out safely 01:25:56 and painlessly 01:26:01 in fact, it's almost impossible 01:26:21 Well, FreeDOS has, in my experience, a similar tenacity 01:26:30 :D 01:26:46 I installed FreeDOS 1.1 on that computer, only to find that subsequent attempts to replace it with other OSes met with total failure 01:27:23 LoL 01:28:00 and on one of my bricked IBMs I was running FreeDOS 1.0 and found it was easier to just let that be the dominant OS and bootloader and just update the FreeDOS's GRUB instead of trying to let the GNU/Linux distro's bootloader take over the master boot record 01:29:24 But I last found myself in need of a FreeDOS stick back in December of 2014 01:30:08 when I discovered that my Z77 mITX mobo from EVGA could only be reflashed in Windows or DOS and the firmware that was currently installed was both out of date and seemed to be corrupted or backdoored in some tremendously malicious way 01:30:24 Such that I haven't really worked on it much since then. 01:30:46 despite its promise, there are too many technical, mechanical, and ergonomic issues to resolve 01:31:43 Have You looked into #flashrom? 01:31:47 I also need to find a way to either mount the PSU most of the way outside of the case (my thought was to get standoffs adapted to the dimensions of fan screws, then just keep stacking and stacking them until I have achieved roughly 9/10ths externalization of the GPU 01:31:52 I have not 01:31:56 that's a channel on here? 01:32:05 Yes. 01:32:07 what goes on in there? 01:32:34 Reflasshing the BIOS memory. 01:32:45 s/ss/s/ 01:32:46 Hm, interesting 01:32:57 I shall have to investigate 01:33:31 because if I knew of a universal method that would permit me to just use the Linux `dd` command to reflash the BIOS/UEFI of any machine I would be elated 01:34:00 alas, on newer machines it seems as though the newer BIOSes being offered by the vendors are increasingly Windows-dependent 01:34:21 with only a few mainstays such as Asus offering in-firmware reflashing 01:34:39 But the trend seems to be following closer to that awful EVGA Z77 01:35:06 which wants to run either a DOS batch file or a Windows program to reflash the BIOS 01:35:18 though there could be a .bin file in the package that I just haven't seen 01:35:34 guess I'll go chat with these #flashrom folks. Sounds like a good place to idle. 01:36:01 Excitingly, I should be getting a machine with factory-installed LibreBoot within the next 4-5 weeks 01:40:06 Seems to be concerned with a very particular firmware, #flashrom does 01:40:41 Surprised I never heard of it back in 2014-2015 when I was furiously struggling to plug as many backdoors as I could 01:42:06 I guess it's not that old. 01:42:46 Is it purposed to a particular ISA or hardware make? 01:43:08 Oh 01:43:10 I see 01:43:13 fascinating 01:43:18 this is a great idea for a program 01:43:23 I see it is a community above all else. 01:43:49 I always figured that if `dmidecode` could read from my BIOS, then surely it must be possible to reflash it in some semi-generic way. 01:44:07 Ah 01:44:13 Mixed feelings on that one 01:44:23 communities come and go, particularly online 01:45:03 last year another IRC channel I'd hung out in for a decade and had a lot of dear friends in just up and emptied out over the course of a week 01:45:34 and the fellow who originally created the room never came back once to even take One Last Little Peek. 01:45:45 What could be the cause of that?! 01:45:51 Made me glum to not even have the opportunity to say goodbye to those chums 01:46:10 Well, most of what was holding the place together was our "Vidnight at Midnight" 01:46:42 but we were having troubles with a roughly 50/50 split of viewers who could participate on Friday or Saturday night but not both 01:47:12 then some fellow came by who was a friend and former employee of mine when I ran my first computer game company into the ground 01:47:43 and the fellow who had been acting as the defacto "admin/lawman" in our lawless little room permabanned him without a word 01:48:07 and I questioned whether or not this was right, given that in the entire history of the room we hadn't banned a number of really, really awful people 01:48:22 and I remember questioning people for opinions 01:48:30 but nobody much wanted to give one 01:48:38 and then after that people just stopped showin' up 01:48:42 vidnight stopped 01:48:48 and people just left IRC 01:49:05 some of them, I reckon, got fancy Web 4.0 social lives via Tindr and the like 01:49:37 others moved back to cities where they were happier and, as such, I suppose they felt less need to be on the Internet 01:50:04 And the fellow who banned the other fellow said it was my fault and that I had put everyone off 01:50:25 which, as ghoulish as I ever was to anyone in that chat, I find it hard to believe that everyone would have left on my account. 01:50:58 But since I don't really use any contemporary social media the most contact I have with these folks now is watching their Twitter and Tumblr accounts, if they even have those 01:51:18 and I have to admit, now that they're gone life is a lot lonelier 01:51:48 there was a sad couple of years there when those people were the best friends I had when I lived and worked in a city full of hostile strangers 01:52:19 and I find myself in a not-dissimilar situation now, but without my peeps and without any closure as to why the chat died so suddenly and uniformly 01:53:00 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Remote host closed the connection) 01:53:13 They turned me on to all kinds of strange and wonderful images, videos, etc. They were a real one-of-a-kind crew 01:54:32 Now I think back and wonder where they are, what they're doing that prevents them from even idling, whether they're happy, whether they're alive, or whether they'd even recognize me if I emailed 'em 01:55:33 One girl in particular I was concerned for bc she lives in Louisiana, and her disappearance coincided closely with last year's hurricane 01:55:50 I only confirmed she was alive this year when I remembered that I had her phone number in my contact list 01:56:26 But I reckon she has new friends out in the flesh-net and thus less need to dick around on the computer 01:56:56 and for my own part I guess I don't chat there much anymore either, even though I stand as a stalwart Ozymandian statue of a once-great chat. 01:57:22 I don't see how it could be Your fault. 01:57:39 eh, I was acting pretty crazy back around then 01:57:48 because I was working every day as a gardener 01:58:02 and I was on Lexapro, which turned me into a spectacular asshole 01:58:46 and bloated me up by 20lbs 01:58:58 thankfully it proved relatively easy to quit 01:59:37 but outside of that I was just goin' nuts 01:59:48 but it seems like that banning was the pivotal moment 02:00:47 because while I understood why the banning party permabanned the ban-ee, the ban-ee was quick to point out that the discourse had grown rather stale and overly politically correct compared to the early days when we'd do more as a group 02:01:22 such as romping around second life with absurd Dadaist avatars taking pictures of the weird sites and sounds while antagonizing the regulars 02:02:27 For my own part I started out with a sort of Silent Hill 2-esque person thing with a small(er) pyramid head and conical sections for hands 02:03:10 but I eventually moved on to a Project A-Ko-style, muscle-bound Amazon chick in a brown bikini 02:03:48 so we went along, picking up free items like furry fetish crap and exploring peoples' strange little worlds 02:04:06 We didn't take it particularly seriously. 02:05:19 A few years later after I tanked my game company I met a prospective artist, and ironically enough rather than focusing his apparent talents for 3D modeling on something lucrative he seemed convinced that he could cut in on a slice of the Second Life HD modeling market 02:05:58 which looks like a real cesspool to me, not in the least because making decent items requires a command of Linden Labs' crappy EMCAscript derivative 02:06:44 And frankly, he managed to make plenty of interesting looking avatars just screwing around with free objects and models he found 02:07:26 Sort of hope to get another operation going here and contracting with him, since apparently he has since learned proper 3D modeling since last we met in person 02:08:25 So I'm sort of working on an elevator pitch to convince him to learn Blender and MagicaVoxel to help me make models for two of my larger game ideas 02:09:04 I was thinking I'd try using the Godot Engine middleware to at least prototype the gameplay if not build the complete game 02:09:50 rather than my original plan as of last December, which was to make another stab at an SDL/(Vulkan|OpenGL)/OpenCL custom engine 02:10:22 but right now that's a far-flung dream, the games are way too complex to create without a dedicated and ideally paid team 02:11:21 Particularly one featuring someone I could delegate the administrivia of the business to so I don't have to fuss about with it. 02:12:05 My last company failed because my cofounder, just months prior to starting, A) decided that no work could be done without a fully-developed business plan and B) that I was a piece of shit 02:13:09 And it was the height of the $0.99, shallow, casual cell phone game 02:13:39 which my cofounder figured it would be best to just churn out a piece of shovelware every month to build revenue 02:13:44 but I wanted to make proper games 02:13:49 for people who really play games 02:13:55 and ideally computer games 02:14:35 But instead of relying on one of my simpler mainstays I thought of a new concept, which I was not terribly willing to compromise on 02:15:11 so then they just plunked me down with a stripped down source file for my cofounder's SDL-based engine we'd spent the prior 4 years tuning and debugging 02:15:17 but it was very poorly documented 02:15:29 so I couldn't understand how the parts interrelated 02:15:49 and since it was written in C, there wasn't really an object hierarchy that was immediately apparent 02:16:08 some of the fundamental constructs and structs seemed to serve similar but slightly different functions 02:16:56 and eventually they just said straight up that they had no interest in working on my game, and then said they'd come up with 5 simple game ideas 02:17:30 they came up with 4, 2 of which were actually simple, the other two of which were ideas my cofounder had previously but which were not any simpler than the idea I had proposed 02:17:48 which was fundamentally a marriage of pacman with sokoban 02:19:06 Anyway, around this time the PTSD from the job I worked prior to that came crashing down on my head and I threw up my hands and just said, "screw it, you guys just make what you want to make." and I just hung around in the background implementing little programs while dealing with my first forays into the twisted and evil world of psychiatric medicine 02:20:13 ultimately, when they showed me what they made I realized that I had absolutely no faith in the product, so I ended up giving the IP rights to the wrong person, fired them both, gave my cofounder his gross percentage of the original budget, and we parted ways 02:20:57 Then I took what was supposed to be a part-time job as a manservant that was intended to leave me with time every week to work on a new games company 02:21:33 but I couldn't seem to meet any artists, coders, or really anyone interested in and capable of contributing to a video or computer game project in the town I moved to 02:21:36 my home town 02:21:39 this town 02:21:46 this boring, stupid, evil, mean city 02:22:51 where the only viable professions are medicine, biotech, being a member of the local University-Industrial Complex (as the University more or less IS a sizeable chunk of the city) 02:22:59 or you can be a lawyer 02:23:01 or a banker 02:23:10 or a manual laborer 02:23:42 But there's no demand for the skills I have developed, nor do I feel that I fit in with this place particularly well. 02:24:34 All said and done, even if I didn't know many people there, what friends I had in Portland, Oregon were fun friends. And I got to hang out with the PIGSquad, which was a local independent game developer's meetup. 02:25:08 I'm more of an Oregonian than an Alabamian, despite having been born in Alabama 02:25:23 But that also means that everywhere I go I reek of Alabamian-ness 02:25:33 people can smell the crazy on me 02:26:46 Slowly this year I have been meeting some people who could prove helpful, but I have to establish a new LLC of conglomerated enterprises and make another big pot of cash to pay people with and start a new computer game company 02:27:51 For my own part, I'll focus on building the skills to help me understand all the facets of game development that I don't have a good grasp on at the moment by implementing some smaller, pointed projects that are devotedly simple 02:28:10 and hopefully build those games together into a robust set of engines that, combined, can host my big ideas 02:28:46 And possibly make money for the mutual funds that I'll feed to help me build the budget I'll need 02:29:53 And I guess prepare whatever tools I'll need to custom-build in order to implement a given game. 02:30:06 Well, not just implement it, but implement it cheaply and quickly 02:31:15 for example, building my 2D, low-res sprite games in orthographically projected voxels and then using automation software to take as many different angles of that animation frame as there are cardinal angles of movement in said game 02:32:06 and, ideally, substitute hand-shading for GLSL material shaders and self-occluding real-time shadows 02:33:02 this way I don't sit around nitpicking over two pixels in a single frame that I'll have to redraw from scratch for 7 more angles if my game has 8 cardinal directions of movement 02:33:23 Just trying to Think Like Ralph Bakshi 02:34:43 which is to say, use whatever tools save the most artist time and game designer effort 02:35:10 because while it's perfectly wonderful to see completely hand-drawn, pixel-by-pixel 2D art 02:35:43 I reckon that in all likelihood, if the voxels were coupled with dynamic lighting and shaders, people probably wouldn't notice the difference 02:38:30 and I could take advantage of fancy 3D GPU effects such as depth of field, dynamic light and shadows, tessellation, and other esoteric stuff, giving me a sort of Hi-Definition 2.5D game engine that makes what appear to be and play similar to 2D games but look fancier through good fundamental designs and the application of some advanced rendering techniques to achieve a more realistic as well as fantastic look! 02:40:23 The Other big game is predicated along the same lines, it's a 3D game where I'll rely a lot on weird shaders, displacement maps, etc, while ultimately imposing stringent polygon counts more germane to the N64 or the Quake 1 && 2 systems 02:42:20 low polygons means simpler skeletons, fewer bones to animate per animation, and more potential to create variations of the low-poly parts representing different levels of modification, wear, tear, and destruction 02:42:45 which is an area where games today still seem to fall short much of the time. 02:43:40 but before I approach those projects 02:44:23 I have more peculiar game ideas in mind that would be useful to implement both as exercises in engine design as well as providing me with something I've been sorely lacking for my entire computing career 02:44:53 which is experience with client-side web scripting using HTML5 and Javascript 02:44:58 well, coffeescript ideally 02:45:22 I find the notion of writing raw .js about as appealing as reading uncommented Perl from 1993 03:07:22 --- join: GeDaMo (~GeDaMo@62.56.75.248) joined #forth 03:14:56 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.219.178) joined #forth 03:41:35 --- quit: wa5qjh (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 03:43:09 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.150) joined #forth 03:56:36 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@ppp83-237-166-32.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 04:28:18 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 04:49:35 good lord the scrollback 05:01:28 :) 05:14:44 --- join: opamp (~textual@97-104-93-154.res.bhn.net) joined #forth 05:26:44 --- quit: opamp (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…) 09:42:49 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 09:43:37 MrBusiness: I get the same feeling about coffee script or type script to be honest. 09:45:22 regarding Intels bark about x86 SSE patents being violated by emulator writers: this is exactly why I have decided to just go the eForth way of providing a few primitives. 09:45:39 --- quit: groovy2shoes (Remote host closed the connection) 09:45:48 the rest of the software would just be colon defs 09:49:12 ZarutianPI, can't say I blame you for disliking any of the metaJavascript langs 09:49:19 I'm not fond of coffeescript per se 09:49:32 it just looks less painful than writing direct javascript 09:49:50 up until the point where you have to debug it 09:50:38 For me it's more about filling a hole in my CV, which is that I don't really have much experience doing web-programming outside of deep, dark, back-end utilities that only run on the server and probably don't even directly interact with users or sites hosted on said servers 09:50:54 yeah, but I can read between the lines reasonably well 09:51:06 and frankly, Javascript debugging looks like its a nightmare already 09:51:54 HTML5 strikes me as vaguely perverse given the original intent of HTML as a simplification of SGML and its early life where it functioned more purely as a markup language 09:52:07 before we decided that web technology should be more like dish soap 09:54:17 what I think happened is that people do not like having to install or update software. It is incredibly easy just to navigate to a Single Page Application and do your thing. 09:54:55 Yes, it makes sense. It's just a shame that javascript became the client-side universal standard language 09:55:24 Shameful and also, these days, really creepy 09:56:00 well in the same sense of shame x86 became the PC ISA in the 90's 09:56:07 I often leer at Google's (i,s,o,g,r,a,m) function interface and wonder what perfidious Hell it is wreaking upon my machine at any given moment. 09:56:25 I can't argue that either 09:57:18 I used my fair share of Sun-era SPARCs, and those things were bloody rocks 09:57:53 I personally blame software bloat. 09:57:59 though furiously though they toiled, many a blade I interacted with seemed ever on the edge of death and yet nevertheless kept pace 09:59:27 Hm, software bloat? You mean how each new version of Windows would drastically raise its memory requirements while providing no obvious functional improvements over several iterations 09:59:44 for instance yes 10:00:23 and that W10 look is just recoloured motif look as far as I can tell. 10:01:56 It did add workspaces 10:01:57 finally 10:02:04 light-years late to that party 10:03:26 I was doing multiple workspaces in my outdated Solaris 8 in my first post-collegiate computing job, and in college I took advantage of the workspace functionality on the Linux machines in the school computer lab. 10:03:49 3rd parties provided workspace functionality for Windows 7, but it took all the way to Windows 10 for MS to get its paradigm straight 10:04:18 since they sort of pissed in the general direction of workspaces in hopes people would adopt whatever Metro ended up being called 10:05:05 yeah, never understood what Metro was about. Full screen applications for everything? why? 10:06:58 to copy iOS bc that was roughly the same time that Apple caught up t o and, at least briefly, eclipsed MS's revenues 10:07:57 which brought about a lot of the ugliest trends in computing today 10:08:47 you mean the appstore crap? 10:08:58 Amen 10:09:04 I hate it 10:09:08 which is basically an GUI package manager with price tags 10:09:55 Yeah, I knew it was gonna be a cancer when Canonical made its own app store thing to use instead of synaptic 10:16:05 what is it that causes these kind of bad ideas? farts held in or? 10:18:41 Computer companies being publicly traded commodities that, like all corporations, are pathologically and psychotically devoted to profit at the expense of everything, including quality as the rise of Microsoft as the "main" OS-vendor of the mid-late 80s and the entirety of the 90s attests to 10:18:56 I mean, for all the money Windows versions cost, they're surprisingly useless out of box 10:19:04 In theory there is some usability 10:19:25 but I was never even able to figure out a way to summon the Windows Script Host, much less write a VBA application of any merit 10:19:58 And even their tools are cut rate. Why does Excel not have native functions for manipulations and diffs of particular date/time stamps? 10:20:45 or still be subject to IEEE 754 floating point errors? 10:20:55 Why are all the available examples these horrible chunks of illegible, 16-bit era looking garbage? Why do I get more value out of a .csv file and journeyman-level acquaintance with Perl? 10:21:42 I do not know. 10:21:43 Heh, hilariously, I think Irix had those problems licked with their early 90s x86 implementations 10:22:35 but unlike Intel and AMD they couldn't stay afloat in that weird, janky, one-handed ISA known as IA-32 (and ostensibly IA-16 prior to the 32-bit era) 10:22:43 what? the floating point errors? You get them if you use IEEE 754 floats even when they are implemented per spec 10:22:50 yeah 10:22:56 I think Irix didn't use that spec 10:23:05 they did division some other way 10:23:20 I think maybe some sort of fast binary-coded decimal hardware 10:23:58 But yes, floating point error is something I still struggle with 10:24:17 well, I think /% is pretty reasonably fast in eForth and that is pure integer artithmetic 10:24:17 It has, in fact, proved to be significantly impeding towards many of my previous game making efforts 10:24:55 at least dec64.com floating point spec is more sane. 10:25:16 the best engine I managed to hammer out of some OpenGL had an inconsistent frame-rate that probably came about from a combination of misfortunes in type inference and bad floating point hygiene 10:29:35 sorry I never got to dick around on the OpenBoot firmware on those SPARCs 10:30:02 kinda like to get a shit old Solaris 8 SCSI Sparc workstation just to have one. 10:30:26 I could probably run, I dunno, a really cut down Debian server off of one 10:30:55 And it would probably still end up more secure than most of the x86 shit I'm using now 10:31:41 since they actually bothered to physically separate the control and data stacks on the wire instead of pasting a little execute-disable bit "suggestion" 10:32:53 But that's a whole different gripe, and something of a gripe that led to my interest in obtaining a GreenArrays test board to write some Forth on rather than just building my Forth from a bunch of _ASM running in a C runtime framework 10:33:53 I guess I like the notion of building a minimal core Forth for a given ISA focused purely on bootstrapping and measurement 10:36:38 then having my application there in the forth and just optimizing away any inefficient words, replacing them with efficient equivalents in ASM/C/OpenCL or whatever other jankiness will let me accomplish the work with the minimum of fuss 10:37:15 and have the old colon word defs around to fall back on 10:37:33 probably could have saved myself a lot of headaches in college writing Forths as test machine code programs for my Verilog CPU designs 10:38:29 granted, doing so probably would have meant having to implement a lot of unnecessary excess complexity to the CPU simulations, which often didn't even enjoy consistent results between any given two Verilog compilers 10:38:42 well compilers and simulators 10:39:35 ultimately a shallow distinction where concerns the execution of code on a piece of code simulating the hardware that performs the execution in the first place 10:49:55 --- join: chat___ (~chat@p54B2FC1B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 10:52:04 --- quit: Guest59228 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12:00:19 --- quit: chat___ (K-Lined) 12:44:56 --- join: groovy2shoes (~groovy2sh@unaffiliated/groovebot) joined #forth 13:49:50 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 14:00:46 --- join: Chef_Gromboli 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