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ZZZzzz…) 21:53:24 --- join: opamp (~textual@97-104-93-154.res.bhn.net) joined #forth 21:57:51 --- quit: opamp (Client Quit) 23:00:49 Any particular Forth compilers/interpreters/manipulators out there known to have good bindings to libs such as SDL or Allegro 23:01:02 I guess any old Forth implemented in anything could drive those, really 23:01:15 as long as it models the C code correctly it can then build up a terser grammar 23:01:39 but hm, every object in the game existing, fundamentally, as a stack 23:01:43 not too far off from how it really is 23:05:04 I wish I could find a cheap copy of Volume 2 of C. B. McCabe's Forth books, the second volume being one that shows a minimal implementation of a Forth in some arbitrary ASM language. 23:05:20 I reckon that's probably worth the 500 bleeding USD people seem to want for it on Amazon 23:06:18 I guess for my money I wouldn't mind an update of that into some contemporary, all low-level X86_64 ASM and maybe a light C framework for establishing the basic structure of the Forth interpreter, leaving the rest up to JIT code analysis, optimization, refactoring, and live hot-plugging of fresh code. 23:06:47 If all that could be done in a relatively state-invisible matter at hand 23:09:13 all over the internet I see claims that Forth is easy to implement, so I think $500USD would be overpaying by a considerable margin 23:09:14 Woah, what the hell 23:09:33 Yeah, it seems ridiculous 23:09:42 I've just never found something that plainly similar to that idea 23:09:46 which is what I wanted to know 23:10:05 I wanted a presentation that guides me through the implementation, explains the implementation details beyond the semantics of the code 23:10:26 I also want to know the designer's intent, why choose certain words, and ways of managing the code using some manner of Macro system 23:10:52 Unless one is using a weird Forth such as ColorForth, which I'd love to implement a small computer game in were but that I could even work the keyboard design correctly 23:11:06 it seems to be some kind of metaprogramming setup only comprehensible to Charles H. Moore 23:12:07 http://www.figuk.plus.com/byof.htm this seems like it may be of interest to you 23:12:23 oh, yes 23:12:26 this is delightful 23:12:30 thank you jedb 23:12:37 I will definitely bookmark and read this thing 23:12:47 as I've already purchased almost every Forth book on Amazon, irrespective of its age 23:13:18 which has resulted in the retrieval of several books that are very charming in their optimistic outlook on what turns out to be a relatively bleak future for Forth, or so it seems to me 23:13:26 since the last Forth I used was the SPARC OpenBoot firmware 23:13:27 my only interest in Forth at the moment is as a language to implement a portable interpreter/compiler for something else in 23:13:35 And that thing makes no sense 23:14:38 Yeah, I feel as though I could use it to make games as well as use dialects of it to make DSLs for particular game constructs so that I can just write compilers that issue warnings to STDOUT/STDERR instead of making IDEs 23:14:59 since most game ideas I have could probably be repesented largely in plaintext, save for more complicated constructs like voxels, etc 23:15:17 things that require that I probably go a bit beyond Forth to implement the features of some other languages 23:16:36 which, hey, no problem, really 23:17:27 having access to the stack where all the data and metadata is gonna get pushed onto anyway means one can layer it up with all sorts of donkey trot and then modify the call words to implement whatever OO/Pattern Matching horror I can devise 23:17:44 as well as a complex type system, or at least something more than a stack of integers 23:17:49 bindings are tedious, tedious things to write, so if you need to go too far beyond Forth for some purpose I'd consider using a different language altogether 23:18:02 don't think I really wanna have to build my own code pages and the like, so get UTF8 from a C lib or somesuch I guess 23:19:00 yeah, I mean, the idea behind Forth seems to be minimizing bindings by writing only the core of the Forth in the native machine code and then doing what thou shalt with the Forth, which will result in something that is in many respects a lot less sophisticated-seeming at its core than the average C runtime, and yet is quite sophisticated nevertheless 23:19:25 Forth just sort of constitutes what I would think of as the best pathological postfix language example 23:19:38 It's like a leftist tree struct 23:25:07 MrBusiness, aren't there enough little forths sources on internetz? 23:25:39 --- join: zignig (~zignig@bl3dr.com) joined #forth 23:28:01 yeah 23:28:11 it may just end up being an academic exercise 23:28:26 I'd rather build a more novel language, or combine several old languages into something new 23:28:43 and put it all into a scripting swiss army knife of a different sort than Perl 23:49:50 --- quit: Guest34896 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/17.05.31