00:00:00 --- log: started forth/17.05.21 00:25:36 --- join: zincing (~zincing@2a03:1b20:2:f702::8de) joined #forth 00:52:45 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.219.178) joined #forth 01:45:35 --- quit: zincing (Remote host closed the connection) 01:53:53 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@ppp83-237-168-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 02:17:52 --- join: GeDaMo (~GeDaMo@212.225.127.213) joined #forth 03:54:56 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.130) joined #forth 04:36:15 zy]x[yz: does it matter? 04:36:41 zy]x[yz: you have to code around it anyway, so any choice is as bad as another. 04:53:45 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 05:15:08 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:15:12 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 05:25:07 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.130) joined #forth 05:31:18 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@ppp83-237-173-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 06:20:21 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 06:55:13 --- join: zincing (~zincing@2a03:1b20:1:f410:7366::5de) joined #forth 08:24:01 --- quit: izabera (Quit: WeeChat 1.7.1) 08:25:32 --- join: izabera (~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera) joined #forth 08:37:03 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 08:42:17 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@ppp83-237-173-250.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 09:06:09 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:27:35 zy]x[yz: TRUE can be non-zero not just -1, and FALSE is zero like empty disk space or a device that's powered off. I use non-zero to say "this exists" and zero to say "nothing is here", I would have the length of the string as zero if the result you want does not exist (failure). It's consistent, predictable, and there's no need for flags to represent status 09:27:35 -- the result itself is the status. 09:27:35 I'm considering using the names ALL instead of TRUE (-1) and NOTHING instead of FALSE (0) 09:41:04 You can do the same as Wirth did in Oberon. Treat bit vectors as sets with normal set operations. 09:49:04 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 09:56:13 pointfree, yes, I started thinking about it last night and settled on a hybrid convention. IB status when 0 is not a valid result (such as string length), and OOB when 0 can be valid. the problem I faced next is whether to consider 0 a valid address, and I think I will 10:04:33 --- quit: Keshl (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 10:17:27 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 10:20:17 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:22:46 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.219.178) joined #forth 10:30:49 --- join: Chef_Gromboli (~Chef_Grom@static-72-88-80-103.bflony.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 11:03:36 pointfree, also, I haven't defined a TRUE or FALSE in my forth. I've always been a fan of "write what you mean." I write 0 when I mean 0 in c (not NULL), and -1 when I mean -1 in forth 11:34:04 --- join: dys (~dys@ip1f13984f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 11:45:43 --- quit: zincing (Quit: Leaving) 11:49:10 --- join: zincing (~zincing@2a03:1b20:4:f011::18de) joined #forth 11:52:44 --- join: ACE_Recliner (~ACE_Recli@c-50-165-178-74.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:57:16 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 11:58:58 --- join: ACE_Recliner (~ACE_Recli@c-50-165-178-74.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:17:49 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12:23:11 --- join: Keshl (~Purple@24.115.185.149.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 12:51:59 --- quit: true-grue (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 13:06:32 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.219.178) joined #forth 13:27:00 zy]x[yz: what do you write when you want all-bits-set instead of -1? 13:33:59 -1 is all bits set, and I don't care about your weird esoteric platform where that isn't the case 13:34:06 -1 is not all bits set. 13:34:26 It isn't all bits set on such a common platform as i386. :) 13:34:40 what are you talking about 13:35:13 I'm talking about one simple fact that Forth doesn't mandate 2-complement representation of numbers since ages. 13:35:23 I don't care what forth mandates 13:35:32 whatever that even means 13:35:43 in /my/ forth, -1 is all bits set 13:35:48 In particular, -1 may be represented by a number of different ways. 13:35:53 -1 is not all bits set. 13:35:56 that's nice 13:36:42 Not to mention some other important facts from software development industry that are known since 1970s. 13:38:27 whatever it is you're driving at, I've lost interest 13:38:51 You may call a shit ball an apple, that doesn't make ball of shit an apple. 13:39:05 if you have something constructive to share, share it 13:39:12 I'm over this religious pedantry bullshit 13:39:30 and don't make me beg you for enlightenment 13:40:31 There're strong reasons why there're separate "true" and "false" constants even in such shitty language as Forth. 13:40:59 and yet you haven't named a single one yet 13:41:51 Reason no. 1: "-1" is not all bits set. 13:42:25 Reason no. 2: even if they have same low-level representation, "true" and "-1" are completely different concepts. 13:42:39 Fundamentally different. 13:42:57 yeah, that's what I thought. thanks, but I'll pass. you don't have anything of interest to me 13:43:32 Reason no 3: for a long time "true" wasn't "all bits set" either. 13:46:35 --- quit: GeDaMo (Remote host closed the connection) 13:47:44 There exist pretty strong reasons why "true" should be "1" exactly. 13:48:32 This entails that it isn't necessarily neither "all bits set" nor "only bit 0 set". 13:51:51 just repeating that "there exist pretty strong reasons" is not as compelling of an argument as you might think 13:53:02 I'm sure that since you have failed your course in mathematical logic and/or discrete math, you're not going to understand it. 13:54:51 (Because this has to do with the way you build algebraic and logic structures, in particular homomorphism between primitive Boolean algebra and Z/2Z ring.) 13:57:27 good lord you are an insufferable person 14:32:19 I'm not good to you, sure. :) 14:36:56 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:48:42 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 15:28:06 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 15:31:24 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.130) joined #forth 15:44:41 --- quit: zincing (Quit: Leaving) 16:06:50 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:08:24 --- quit: nighty-- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 16:25:29 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17:09:01 --- join: neceve (~ncv@79.113.69.183) joined #forth 17:09:01 --- quit: neceve (Changing host) 17:09:01 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 17:24:06 --- join: dual (~bonafide@cpe-74-75-153-119.maine.res.rr.com) joined #forth 17:25:01 --- join: nighty-- (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 18:16:49 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 18:44:45 --- join: John[Lisbeth] (~user@52.173.140.155) joined #forth 18:44:50 --- part: John[Lisbeth] left #forth 19:04:47 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@49.228.120.185) joined #forth 19:04:47 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 19:27:03 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 20:31:26 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 20:33:23 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@49.228.120.185) joined #forth 20:33:23 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 20:43:18 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:08:09 --- quit: Chef_Gromboli (Quit: Leaving) 21:10:16 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@183.88.34.177) joined #forth 21:10:17 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 22:13:13 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 23:14:48 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.137) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/17.05.21