00:00:00 --- log: started forth/17.05.14 00:03:00 --- join: smokeink (~smoke@175.20.93.50) joined #forth 00:08:17 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Remote host closed the connection) 00:18:45 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@ppp83-237-174-84.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 00:28:21 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@host86-186-214-85.range86-186.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 01:14:24 --- join: neceve (~ncv@86.125.247.109) joined #forth 01:14:24 --- quit: neceve (Changing host) 01:14:24 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 02:18:57 --- quit: zincing (Quit: Leaving) 02:25:57 --- join: zincing (~zincing@2a03:1b20:1:f410:7366::5de) joined #forth 02:36:43 --- quit: zincing (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 02:37:21 --- join: zincing (~zincing@2a03:1b20:2:f702::4de) joined #forth 02:50:08 --- join: GeDaMo (~GeDaMo@212.225.127.213) joined #forth 03:07:28 --- quit: smokeink (Quit: leaving) 03:41:14 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@2405:9800:b408:bc31:4a51:b7ff:fe38:d966) joined #forth 03:41:19 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 05:32:42 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 05:37:11 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.219.178) joined #forth 06:03:01 --- join: vsg1990 (~vsg1990@static-72-88-80-103.bflony.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 06:20:26 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 07:17:12 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p4FE8DAE3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 08:38:25 --- quit: meta4 (Quit: That's it for today) 08:38:50 --- join: meta4 (~jgw@c-24-8-47-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:00:43 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Leaving. Have a nice day.) 09:09:39 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 09:15:12 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:15:36 --- quit: Zarutian (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:16:17 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:27:04 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 09:59:49 --- quit: Zarutian (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 10:19:57 --- join: varuaa (~kvirc@pool-100-2-162-136.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 10:33:40 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@ppp83-237-174-84.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 11:03:09 --- quit: coelebs (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 11:05:03 --- join: koz__ (~koz_@121.99.240.58) joined #forth 11:09:39 --- quit: koz_ (*.net *.split) 11:10:37 --- quit: varuaa (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 11:12:04 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:31:40 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 11:58:30 --- quit: DGASAU (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:58:40 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 12:11:06 glad to see john[lisbeth] is still enjoying himself on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Forth/comments/6a1vpg/explain_like_im_five_ans_forth_macros_how_do_they/ 12:11:40 he's also a #lisp 12:11:45 and some people ignore him 12:12:00 oh 12:12:01 I saw this 12:12:05 and thought it's John 12:12:12 but I wasn't sure 12:15:52 That he is "high-level lisp programmer" is a very huge overstatement. 12:15:58 the tell is "I am not an electrical engineer but instead a high level lisp style programmers so I have a tough time with some of these lower level electrical engineering concepts" 12:16:26 based on his output, he doesn't come across as any kind of programmer 12:17:31 (Could do something like PHP or Perl, whether it counts as programming is a subject to another dispute.) 12:18:58 I take Perl over PHP any day 12:19:55 what's sad is that he wastes tremendous amount of time on useless things 12:22:33 with the same effort he could have been written many many lines of code 12:22:37 * DGASAU agrees that any "high level lisp style programmer" shouldn't waste time on such useless thing as Forth. 12:23:13 Last time I checked the art of programming wasn't measured in ability to write many lines of code. 12:24:05 yes. but if you write a lot of code, you get better :-> 12:26:21 --- join: dual (~bonafide@69.39.105.219) joined #forth 12:27:19 Again, programming isn't writing code. 12:27:38 It is about solving problems. 12:27:57 You can write a lot of code to solve trivial problem. 12:28:21 You can write the code to solve problems of the same kind for the whole your life. 12:28:41 Neither will make you better programmer. 12:29:01 I was working with the "high-level lisp programmer" in one project. He was doing front-end stuff, his task was to make Web GUI in Clojure. And he was most annoying person in the team. I never seen more demanding and displeased guy! He was acted like his html code, Clojure library and D3 is a center of everything! :) 12:30:32 And, to tell you truth, I'll never hire a guy who knows only one "exotic" language and knows very little about computing in general. 12:31:01 DGASAU: I think you know what I mean. even if you pretend not to ;-) 12:32:35 < DGASAU> You can write the code to solve problems of the same kind for the whole your life. 12:32:46 true-grue: my opinion is even more extreme, actually. 12:33:04 reminds of one time I went on a job interview and the hiring manager was bragging about his team 12:33:35 and mentioned that this one guy who I knew from another company implemented a dhcp server in a weekend 12:33:44 true-grue: I consider programming languages as tools, thus the person should rather understand computing instead of programming language, unless the position is more on the side that requires thorough understanding of given tools. 12:34:33 and I thought to myself, huh, that's interesting. he also wrote a dhcp server for our product when we worked together at another company. and even back then I asked him why the hell he did that when there are already tons of dhcp servers you can download for free 12:34:59 seems like he just makes his living going around and getting paid to write the same dhcp software over and over again 12:35:33 zy]x[yz: actually, there may be a lot of minimally working servers, but very few that provide complete solution. 12:35:59 and you think his implemented in a weekend does? 12:36:09 You know the answer. :) 12:36:27 So far, only BIND comes more or less close to complete solution. 12:37:21 I mean, even that one has problems, all the rest are a lot less capable. 12:37:38 (And that fact is rather sad.) 12:40:32 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:42:10 --- join: dual (~bonafide@subzeroup.core.rzwireless.net) joined #forth 13:10:37 --- quit: bedah (Quit: Ex-Chat) 13:18:02 DGASAU, Sure. I support the pragmatic view on PLs. 13:29:04 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:30:02 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 13:30:53 --- quit: Zarutian (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:30:57 --- join: Zarutian_ (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 13:31:11 --- join: dual (~bonafide@172.96.33.215) joined #forth 13:32:37 --- nick: Zarutian_ -> Zarutian 13:33:30 --- nick: koz__ -> koz_ 13:42:15 --- quit: GeDaMo (Remote host closed the connection) 13:58:07 z0d: /u/read_harder is John[Lisbeth] his overview has posts about "vaporwave" 13:58:07 At least John's questions, while often simple in themselves eventually lead to more interesting and constructive discussion than saying "forth is useless" 13:58:07 ...that said, don't get attached to your tools, but on the other side of the same coin: take what you learned with you when you explore the next idea. 14:06:38 --- quit: zincing (Remote host closed the connection) 14:15:39 --- quit: dual (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:19:39 --- join: dual (~bonafide@subzeroup.core.rzwireless.net) joined #forth 14:33:59 --- quit: gravicappa (Remote host closed the connection) 14:35:37 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.156) joined #forth 14:40:18 --- join: DGASAU` (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 14:40:22 --- join: leaverite (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.156) joined #forth 14:43:02 --- join: a3f_ (~a3f@unaffiliated/a3f) joined #forth 14:43:17 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 14:43:18 --- quit: a3f (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 14:43:18 --- quit: DGASAU (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:43:18 --- quit: izabera (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 14:43:18 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 14:43:21 --- nick: leaverite -> wa5qjh 14:43:33 --- nick: DGASAU` -> DGASAU 14:43:34 --- join: irsol_ (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 14:44:08 --- join: izabera1 (~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera) joined #forth 14:45:50 --- nick: irsol_ -> irsol 14:46:20 --- nick: izabera1 -> izabera 15:08:37 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15:09:34 --- quit: Zarutian (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15:10:13 --- join: dual (~bonafide@69.39.103.101) joined #forth 15:56:41 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15:58:10 --- join: dual (~bonafide@subzeroup.core.rzwireless.net) joined #forth 16:00:49 --- quit: nighty-- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 16:04:20 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:45:52 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 16:46:57 --- join: dual (~bonafide@subzeroup.core.rzwireless.net) joined #forth 17:11:55 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 17:27:20 --- join: nighty-- (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 17:36:04 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17:37:42 --- join: dual (~bonafide@subzeroup.core.rzwireless.net) joined #forth 18:09:42 --- join: varuaa (~kvirc@pool-100-2-162-136.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 18:26:59 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 18:28:18 --- join: dual (~bonafide@69.39.96.175) joined #forth 18:29:26 --- quit: varuaa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 18:40:52 --- join: varuaa (~kvirc@pool-100-2-162-136.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 19:05:14 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 19:12:37 --- quit: dual (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:15:20 --- quit: varuaa (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 19:16:26 --- join: dual (~bonafide@69.39.96.26) joined #forth 19:25:32 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 19:27:22 --- join: dual (~bonafide@69.39.96.26) joined #forth 19:50:22 --- join: ACE_Recliner (~ACE_Recli@c-50-165-178-74.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:57:31 --- join: smokeink (~smoke@175.20.93.32) joined #forth 20:05:22 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 20:05:43 --- quit: smokeink (Remote host closed the connection) 20:06:32 --- join: dual (~bonafide@172.96.33.163) joined #forth 20:14:45 --- join: smokeink (~smoke@175.20.93.48) joined #forth 20:52:44 --- quit: dual (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:56:48 --- join: dual (~bonafide@subzeroup.core.rzwireless.net) joined #forth 21:14:38 --- quit: smokeink (Quit: leaving) 21:25:43 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Remote host closed the connection) 21:49:39 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@2601:2c2:c300:ff70:a927:8a8c:dad0:211d) joined #forth 21:55:58 --- quit: vsg1990 (Quit: Leaving) 22:22:33 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 22:24:22 --- join: dual (~bonafide@subzeroup.core.rzwireless.net) joined #forth 23:01:03 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:03:10 --- join: dual (~bonafide@104.254.68.254) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/17.05.14