00:00:00 --- log: started forth/17.05.05 00:23:21 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Remote host closed the connection) 04:15:20 koisoke, it's different because it compiles to only a single unconditional branch at the start and only one conditional branch each iteration 04:15:52 and it's like a free "while-not", so it may be a bit more natural in some situations 04:18:14 koisoke: thank you 04:22:53 and yeah he's been spamming me, too. I never even responded, but that didn't seem to discourage him 04:26:45 --- join: nighty-- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 04:28:34 --- join: GeDaMo (~GeDaMo@212.225.127.213) joined #forth 04:48:21 it makes no sense to bother anyone who isn't an op 04:57:07 yeah, looks like he spams pretty everybody 05:05:49 --- join: jjkluui (50b26e9b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.178.110.155) joined #forth 05:08:18 --- quit: MrBusiness (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 05:14:02 hello, is there a source control software written in forth? 05:50:20 i come forth, and it's a mirage, my only friends are cricket sounds 05:58:20 none that I'm aware of 06:05:01 You can do something like this on forth's blocks :) In fact, the Forth is not just a compiler or interpreter, so there is no direct analogy with UNIX tools there. Forth is a system, like Smalltalk system. Everything should be integrated inside: compiler, interpreter, IDE etc. Like it was once made in Holon: http://www.holonforth.com/holon86.html 06:07:40 Nowadays, to the most of the forthers are missing the big picture of Forth. They don't think about it as a whole system. For them is just an another tool in the standard toolchain. But Forth looks bad in this "standard" environment. 06:10:03 i like holon very much, but didn't get much deep into it, caus of it's lack of open sourceness. 06:11:14 'most of the forthers' , implying: some do get the big picture? who are they? 06:12:47 jjkluui, Chuck Moore? :) 06:12:54 jjkluui: I've been working on and off on a character-wise, patch based version control system in forth for my forth system. 06:12:54 The patches are character-wise because forth (and nearly all programming languages) are character-wise. I can make the diff (and other dvcs algorithms) perform well as character-wise algorithms rather than just line-wise algorithms because of compressed pattern matching. 06:12:54 (Compressed pattern matching is a way of running stringology algorithms on compressed text without decompression for extra time and space performance) 06:12:54 It's patch-based because patch based dvcs (like darcs, camp, and pijul) tend to be much more user friendly than history-based dvcs (git, hg, etc). 06:12:54 I want the dvcs to leverage the hyperstatic scoping of forth and with it my package manager for forth words. 06:20:09 *more accurately called a "patch-based *source* control system" 06:20:09 "version" and "revision" imply history which can be used as extra info in the patch's description but is not privileged/first-class metadata. 06:22:18 --- join: MrBusiness (~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:58c0:6ef4:1af7:138c) joined #forth 06:31:11 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 07:50:31 --- join: vsg1990 (~vsg1990@static-72-88-80-103.bflony.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 08:27:35 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 09:59:03 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@ppp83-237-164-163.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 11:44:41 --- quit: jjkluui (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12:30:01 --- join: ACE_Recliner (~ACE_Recli@c-50-165-178-74.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:26:46 --- join: sacculina (~oblivia@156.57.149.237) joined #forth 13:32:20 --- quit: GeDaMo (Remote host closed the connection) 13:43:02 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Remote host closed the connection) 14:31:17 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 14:50:30 --- join: bluekelp (~bluekelp@bluekelp.com) joined #forth 15:06:50 --- quit: bluekelp (Quit: leaving) 15:07:25 --- join: bluekelp (~bluekelp@bluekelp.com) joined #forth 15:07:31 https://xkcd.com/1833/ <-- oh that mouseover text 15:14:05 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.135) joined #forth 15:16:18 "Forth is an old programming language that tends to be difficult to read" <= explainxkcd's take... 15:17:00 bah 15:18:28 I'd argue that's a bit more general than what the author was getting at... it specifically says "written by someone who doesn't know FORTH". Which I think most of us would agree is unreadable. 15:20:46 * crc thinks back to some incomprehensible bits from John[Lisbeth] 15:23:02 Forth is often written in a very implicit style, which would make it difficult to understand from a half-solved cryptogram. You need the whole picture with Forth. 15:23:54 I think the CarrierIQ source code was rather badly written. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/12/analyzing-carrier-iq-profiles 15:25:27 Forth is fully readable if you don't try to do implement algebraic expressions or something with highly interconnected parts in it. The best algorithm for Forth consists of the sequence of steps, like : do-something step-1 step-2 ... step-N ; (yes, like Forth Washing Machine :) 15:28:14 pointfree: I hadn't seen that before. It is some ugly code :( 15:31:45 Just one xt on the stack as a result of loading file? I expected at least 3 or 4 of them. 15:36:10 There's a new hackaday article in the MeCrisp-Stellaris Forth series: http://hackaday.com/2017/04/26/making-a-solar-cell-tester-with-mecrisp-stellaris-forth/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Forth/comments/69ev2a/making_a_solarcell_tester_with_mecrispstellaris/ 15:36:10 Elliot made a good comment below about sometimes using words that do nothing just for the sake of making a strings of forth words read more naturally, like the washing machine example, or to demarcate regions. 15:37:49 You may see this approach in the PLs which mimic the natural language. 15:38:12 Inform7 is a modern example. 15:38:37 reepca: does Chuck Moore know Forth? 15:38:49 reepca: because his code is definitely nearly unreadable. 15:45:27 pointfree: you're free to demonstrate how this code can be really improved. :) 16:03:10 --- join: ACE_Recliner (~ACE_Recli@c-50-165-178-74.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:05:00 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 17:07:03 --- join: ACE_Recliner (~ACE_Recli@c-50-165-178-74.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:25:30 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:38:49 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17:40:59 --- join: ACE_Recliner (~ACE_Recli@c-50-165-178-74.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:43:30 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Remote host closed the connection) 17:43:55 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 18:39:21 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 19:17:55 --- quit: vsg1990 (Quit: Leaving) 20:39:56 --- join: ACE_Recliner (~ACE_Recli@c-50-165-178-74.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 22:27:41 --- quit: sacculina (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22:52:28 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Remote host closed the connection) 23:02:30 --- quit: coelebs (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 23:25:45 --- join: coelebs (viileppi@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-scashwxebbinolkd) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/17.05.05