00:00:00 --- log: started forth/17.04.24 00:53:07 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Remote host closed the connection) 01:37:05 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.129) joined #forth 02:48:12 --- join: GeDaMo (~GeDaMo@212.225.127.213) joined #forth 03:09:46 --- quit: groovy2shoes (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 03:23:10 --- join: groovy2shoes (~groovy2sh@unaffiliated/groovebot) joined #forth 03:29:30 --- quit: nighty-- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 03:35:06 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 04:04:48 --- join: nighty-- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 04:07:23 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 04:11:21 --- quit: MrBusiness (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 04:24:05 --- join: John[Lisbeth] (~user@2601:601:8f01:a6a0:8127:8286:e5ae:76a0) joined #forth 04:33:06 --- quit: groovy2shoes (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 04:33:26 --- join: groovy2shoes (~groovy2sh@unaffiliated/groovebot) joined #forth 04:49:42 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@49.228.115.54) joined #forth 04:49:42 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 05:06:18 --- quit: groovy2shoes (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 05:07:35 --- join: groovy2shoes (~groovy2sh@unaffiliated/groovebot) joined #forth 05:40:26 --- quit: John[Lisbeth] (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 05:47:27 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 05:48:00 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.129) joined #forth 05:53:38 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 06:13:15 --- quit: groovy2shoes (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 06:13:42 --- join: groovy2shoes (~groovy2sh@unaffiliated/groovebot) joined #forth 06:46:42 --- quit: groovy2shoes (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 07:04:24 --- join: groovy2shoes (~groovy2sh@unaffiliated/groovebot) joined #forth 07:20:25 --- join: neceve (~ncv@86.125.247.109) joined #forth 07:20:25 --- quit: neceve (Changing host) 07:20:25 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 08:26:37 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 08:30:48 --- quit: nighty-- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 08:31:19 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@ppp83-237-171-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 08:45:14 --- join: dys (~dys@ip-109-40-2-114.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 10:28:39 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 10:32:00 --- join: vsg1990 (~vsg1990@static-72-88-80-103.bflony.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 12:08:44 --- join: ACE_Recliner (~ACE_Recli@c-50-165-178-74.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:16:48 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 12:21:31 --- join: ACE_Recliner (~ACE_Recli@c-50-165-178-74.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:37:33 --- join: Carisius (~Carisius@cli-5b7ec3b8.ast.adamo.es) joined #forth 12:53:51 --- join: kkliio (5744025b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.68.2.91) joined #forth 13:27:23 --- quit: GeDaMo (Remote host closed the connection) 13:55:49 --- join: MrBusiness (~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:d9ed:2f14:eb80:5e27) joined #forth 14:25:59 --- quit: gravicappa (Remote host closed the connection) 14:29:02 --- join: proteus-guy (~proteus-g@49.228.125.185) joined #forth 14:31:51 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 14:57:24 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:13:57 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:55:16 --- quit: Carisius (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15:58:50 --- join: karswell` (~user@65.91.199.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 16:04:03 --- nick: karswell` -> karswell 16:33:32 what are your guys' thoughts about modeling comparison words for least-redundant non-destructiveness? for example, the stack effect of = might be ( x y -- x -1 | x y 0 ) 16:33:43 does that seem convenient, or confusing? 16:34:43 --- quit: Uniju (Quit: Feeling down? You may already be a charge target.) 16:35:07 I found that it was nice to have words like find return either an address, or the original parameters and a zero to indicate nothing was found, and now I'm thinking about applying this to a broader spectrum 16:39:16 --- join: Uniju (~frog_styl@cpe-74-78-4-232.mass.res.rr.com) joined #forth 16:49:31 the other downside I've found (other than that it might be more confusing than helpful, I guess I won't know until I try it for a while) is that it conflicts with an idea I had to implement ?branch as a high-level word 16:50:23 I can still do it, but it limits ?branch to only work when the flag is either 0 or -1, because I'd have to use invert instead of 0= 17:36:18 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 17:58:06 --- join: nighty-- (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 18:18:46 c 18:20:47 --- quit: qzorg (Quit: Leaving) 18:28:24 --- join: roboguy` (~roboguy_@204.59.124.24.cm.sunflower.com) joined #forth 18:28:26 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:28:48 --- join: karswell` (~user@65.91.199.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 18:36:30 --- join: roboguy`_ (~roboguy_@205.59.124.24.cm.sunflower.com) joined #forth 18:39:46 --- quit: roboguy` (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 19:12:26 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 19:14:26 --- join: proteus-guy (~proteus-g@49.228.125.185) joined #forth 19:20:50 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 19:21:39 --- join: ACE_Recliner (~ACE_Recli@c-50-165-178-74.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:39:01 --- quit: kkliio (Quit: Page closed) 19:39:08 --- join: John[LIsbeth] (~user@173-160-167-234-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 19:51:14 zy]x[yz: it seems convenient sometimes, but (depending on coding style) would add ifs and drops some large fraction of how often it saves dups and overs. and variable stack effect invites bugs im{o,e} 19:54:44 Not to mention it makes it hard for compilers to be clever. Admittedly less of a problem with forth than other languages, but still worth mentioning. 19:58:12 reepca: not really harder than having dups and conditionals, unless the compiler is a really simple peephole optimizer 19:58:35 (which often it is, since one can get decent milage out of that with forth) 19:58:38 *mileage 20:08:55 --- join: dys (~dys@ip-109-40-3-178.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 20:15:55 also: comparisons are often against a constant, so being non-distructive to both arguments when unequal is often not really useful. more often useful than with < or >, but still having = have different stack effect from < or <= seems like a pitfall 20:19:32 ack. malformed thought. meant to say: comparisons are often against a constant, so being nondestructive to both when unequal is often not useful behavior. and also, being destructive to only one when equal would give different stack effect than < <= > >=, and it is often nice to have those all be drop-in replaceable 20:21:58 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:22:26 --- join: ACE_Recliner (~ACE_Recli@c-50-165-178-74.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:26:21 --- quit: John[LIsbeth] (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 20:43:39 --- quit: DocPlatypus (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 20:44:31 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 21:01:48 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@2601:2c2:c300:ff70:88bb:6947:48c0:e3f) joined #forth 21:07:54 --- quit: vsg1990 (Quit: Leaving) 21:36:46 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.130) joined #forth 22:13:21 --- quit: roboguy`_ () 22:40:24 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 22:46:34 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22:49:59 --- join: John[Lisbeth] (~user@2601:601:8f01:a6a0:e1df:2e41:56c:dcd4) joined #forth 23:18:40 --- join: proteus-guy (~proteus-g@180.183.100.241) joined #forth 23:46:20 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.156) joined #forth 23:52:07 --- join: smokeink (~smokeink@23.94.218.6) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/17.04.24