00:00:00 --- log: started forth/17.02.17 00:00:26 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 00:41:11 pointfree: nice idea 00:41:36 LeCamarade: that'd work :-) 00:53:21 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@ppp83-237-166-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 01:01:00 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:28d6:12ed:c704:4b8a) joined #forth 01:06:39 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 02:34:21 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 02:55:50 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 03:01:31 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 03:02:02 --- nick: ggherdov`____ -> ggherdov` 03:06:08 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 03:09:46 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 04:12:10 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 04:18:32 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 04:41:39 --- join: GeDaMo (~GeDaMo@212.225.112.221) joined #forth 04:55:48 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 05:35:09 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 05:39:19 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 06:28:30 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 06:33:05 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 06:47:52 --- join: john_cephalopoda (~john@unaffiliated/john-minetest/x-5335115) joined #forth 06:53:07 33 111 108 DUP 101 72 10 : HELLO DEPTH 0 > IF EMIT RECURSE THEN ; HELLO 06:55:12 --- quit: beretta (Quit: Leaving) 07:25:21 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 07:29:49 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 07:33:25 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 08:33:46 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 08:35:15 --- join: dual (~bonafide@subzeroup.core.rzwireless.net) joined #forth 09:11:38 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 09:11:59 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 09:16:02 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 09:23:05 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@ppp83-237-163-225.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 09:39:29 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 09:44:01 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:47:40 LeCamarade: http://repl.it/languages/Forth is the best one I am aware of. Also has pastebin service. 09:56:13 DKordic: Nice online service. I just froze my browser with : a 1 + dup . recurse ; 0 a 09:56:31 78000 rn 09:56:54 It starts to lag around 30k 10:07:30 john: : counting 0 max 9000 min 0 u+do i . 100 ms loop ; 10:08:07 DKordic: I wanted to test return stack depth. 10:08:19 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 10:09:00 Doesn't look like it has an implemented limit. 10:09:33 Gforth only goes up to 1896. 10:12:51 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:cca3:2514:f19c:31a0) joined #forth 10:16:59 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 10:24:27 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:cca3:2514:f19c:31a0) joined #forth 10:28:37 john_cephalopoda: many hardware implementation of dual stack machines have 256 cell deep stacks. 10:28:39 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 10:29:19 That's not much space. 10:29:59 At least when using recursive things. 10:35:00 Tail call optimization 10:35:41 are there any free forths out there that run on blackfin? 10:35:46 BF606 would be my target 10:36:11 I'm currently porting rockbox to a blackfin box (https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/TEACHAP90SDPort) 10:36:28 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:cca3:2514:f19c:31a0) joined #forth 10:36:30 having a forth on there would be rather convenient for playing with the MMIO hardware 10:37:21 forth > gdb-remote-stub 10:39:54 dys: I found this forth thing but I haven't tried it myself: http://jiggawatt.org/badc0de/forthec/ 10:40:07 how complex is the protocol that gdb-remote-stubs implement? 10:40:24 afaik, there is also Ting's eforth for blackfin 10:40:50 hmm, cross-compiler… I need a non-tethered interactive forth to make reverse-engineering fun 10:41:16 Zarutian: it's very simple. I didt it for SH-3 and AVR some time ago. 10:41:32 the problem is that automating your testing is very slow due to the round-trip to gdb 10:41:46 no way to ad-hoc make loop that probes a CAN bus address range or something 10:42:15 (well, it's possible, but slooow) 10:42:53 dys: just curious because having a forth on a chip which you are doing stuff with AND it can switch to gdb-remote-stub mode would be handy 10:43:47 Zarutian: With the AVR stub I wrote, you need 300bytes and a free interrupt for single-stepping (I used the EEPROM one) 10:44:09 oh, and you need to get data in and out, I used one of the UARTs for that 10:45:55 more modern hardware (e.g. ARM, MSP430) has cheap and decent support for source-level debugging without the need for a remote-stub 10:46:21 there are usually proxies available to - e.g. - debug ARM via the SWD 10:47:18 with AVR a hardware debugger would have cost too much money for my student budget back then, that's why I used a gdb-stub, which works without any hardware debuggin support 10:48:21 dys: https://web.archive.org/web/20030411000657/http://www.eforth.com.tw/academy/advance.htm 10:48:21 "This eForth is installed in a 1MB EPROM plugged into the Analog Devices EZKIT-Lite, ADSP2181 EZ-LAB board. It allows you to access the powerful DSP chip and develop computation intensive application interactively through Forth." 10:49:36 hmm, the ADSP2181 is not a blackfin :-/ 10:50:31 but ja, porting one of the C-forths out there would probably be my next step when I can't find a ready-made one 10:50:49 * dys prefers stubforth for that :-) 10:57:01 Yeah, I'm not sure if https://github.com/mic-/forthec is interactive. 10:57:24 https://github.com/MitchBradley/cforth is really nice and could be a good one to port. 10:58:37 stubforth has very good integration with C such as a ffi and using C-strings by default 10:58:59 this would be very useful for prototyping drivers in C to use in rockbox 10:59:15 also, stubforth could call routines in the original vendor firmware 10:59:50 not sure if cforth is that good with integrating C-code 12:13:16 --- join: ACE_Recliner (~ACE_Recli@c-50-165-178-74.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:16:19 --- quit: dual (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:32:23 pointfree: Isn't forth interactive by default? 12:35:04 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 12:36:36 john_cephalopoda: Forth is almost always interactive, however, there are afaik, some Machine Forths http://wiki.c2.com/?MachineForth that are not. Although, ColorForth is derived from Machine Forth and is interactive. 12:36:59 Ah, right, different standards. 12:37:12 --- join: ACE_Recliner (~ACE_Recli@c-50-165-178-74.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:38:35 john_cephalopoda: Brad Nelson put together a sourceless forth recently that doesn't have the full interactivity: https://www.reddit.com/r/Forth/comments/5rz5wc/bicol_an_experiment_in_sourceless_forth/ 12:41:05 Cool. 12:45:58 lots of toy/proof-of-concept forths also are compile-to-an-executable-binary only, i.e. LLVM's stacker 12:48:19 : 2rot rot rot ; 12:48:20 wut 12:48:53 zy]x[yz: I've seen something similar 12:49:19 I think it was called "reverserot" or something. 12:49:25 -rot 12:49:35 and he has a definition for -rot immediately following that 12:49:43 http://theforth.net/package/mrot/current-view/mrot.4th 12:49:46 https://github.com/flagxor/bicol/blob/master/boot.fs 12:50:02 yes, I'm aware of what -rot is 12:50:51 zy]x[yz: The website "theforth.net" is a package repository. People can make forth packages and upload them there. I found it funny that somebody would make a package for something trivial like that. 12:51:05 The package doesn't contain anything else. 12:51:12 oh, haha 12:54:26 I once thought about writing a package manager for individual forth words...I thought why limit the granularity of collaboration to large libraries? 12:54:52 Such a package management system would need to be somewhat Nix-like, that is support forks and derivations easily because forths must be tailored to their specific applications not to the general case. 12:55:15 : fast ; immediate 12:55:25 that's my package 12:55:30 a really fast-executing word 12:56:12 Collaborating on individual forth words sounds like a better way to aid compatibility than stagnating a language with standardization. 12:56:56 : 1000 2 ; ." This takes " 1000 . ." seconds to run." 12:57:17 500x speedup. 12:58:10 pointfree: There is http://forth-standard.org/ , which seems to be kinda democratic. 12:59:54 I like this one http://theforth.net/package/bounds 12:59:54 It would be cool to have something like GNU, but for Forth. A collection of useful tools written in standard forth, to be used in any project. 13:00:00 he was even nice enough to include his vim swap files 13:01:56 It's the same guy who also made the -rot package. 13:02:00 yes 13:23:27 john_cephalopoda: I'm more interested in compatibility through collaboration wherever it makes sense than in trying to prevent changes and innovations because it's easier not to make changes (aka standards). 13:24:46 pointfree: forth-standard is collaborative and everybody can contribute. It's also quite comprehensibly-written, so I'll try to implement that standard in some way. 13:25:49 I think that a developing, evolving standard makes sense. 13:26:01 Standards are the next best thing to collaboration when collaboration is not possible, such as in a field with a tendency to jealously guard proprietary secrets. 13:27:18 The standard still uses words of like ..."to comply with the standard." 13:27:38 * Zarutian finds that [DEFINED] [UNDEFINED] [IF] [ELSE] [THEN] is somewhat handy to prope for if a word that a Forth file uses exists natively and provide what the ecmascript community calls polyfill. 13:29:34 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:32:22 --- quit: GeDaMo (Remote host closed the connection) 13:37:22 Hmm, I am trying to figure out, which words and structures to define in my parser in order to get a full forth coverage. 14:10:45 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.157) joined #forth 14:37:39 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@24-246-56-85.cable.teksavvy.com) joined #forth 14:57:10 Phew ... 14:59:33 Zarutian: By a mere name. That is hardly amazing. 15:20:01 I'll get a BBC Microbit. I wonder if there's Forth for it 15:21:02 I know there's uPython on it 16:00:45 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 16:03:41 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.157) joined #forth 16:22:15 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 16:22:20 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 16:25:18 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.90.157) joined #forth 16:49:24 Anybody here use or familiar with PFE Forth? 17:04:50 --- part: john_cephalopoda left #forth 17:10:19 --- join: john_cephalopoda (~john@unaffiliated/john-minetest/x-5335115) joined #forth 17:10:45 --- part: john_cephalopoda left #forth 17:23:53 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 17:34:38 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 18:23:05 z0d: Wasn't there a discussion on comp.lang.forth about forth for the BBC Microbit? 18:50:14 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 19:01:58 --- join: vsg1990 (~vsg1990@static-72-88-80-103.bflony.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 19:27:23 --- quit: fiddlerwoaroof (Quit: Gone.) 20:36:00 --- join: roygbiv (~JohnRambo@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv) joined #forth 21:04:42 --- join: ACE_Recliner (~ACE_Recli@c-50-165-178-74.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 21:19:48 --- join: vsg1990_ (~vsg1990@static-72-88-80-103.bflony.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 21:22:12 --- quit: vsg1990 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:23:57 --- quit: karswell` (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:24:51 --- quit: roygbiv (Quit: ™) 21:25:04 --- join: karswell` (~user@21.208.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 21:25:38 --- join: roygbiv (~JohnRambo@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv) joined #forth 21:49:35 --- quit: roygbiv (Quit: ™) 22:02:39 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 22:05:34 --- quit: vsg1990_ (Quit: Leaving) 23:18:06 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 23:21:16 --- join: real-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 23:32:31 --- quit: proteus-guy (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23:33:09 --- join: proteus-guy (~proteus-g@49.228.112.239) joined #forth 23:34:29 --- quit: ACE_Recliner (Remote host closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/17.02.17