00:00:00 --- log: started forth/17.01.10 00:12:01 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h62-133-162-215.static.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 00:14:33 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 00:42:23 Well one way to state the problem I was trying to solve is what is the best programming language there is with the least compromises 00:42:54 and so if I am indeed correct that that is forth then that means it would be beneficial to most people who use programming languages to use forth 00:43:03 and if I am wrong then that is not the case 01:21:29 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: http://corewar.co.uk) 01:35:40 --- quit: bluekelp (*.net *.split) 01:35:46 --- join: bluekelp (~bluekelp@bluekelp.com) joined #forth 01:37:39 --- quit: dzho (*.net *.split) 01:37:39 --- quit: rprimus_ (*.net *.split) 01:37:39 --- quit: a3f (*.net *.split) 01:37:39 --- quit: pdewacht (*.net *.split) 01:37:45 --- join: dzho (~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 01:37:50 --- join: pdewacht (~repent@kulon.2k38.be) joined #forth 01:37:54 --- join: rprimus (~micro@178.79.128.27) joined #forth 01:38:18 --- nick: rprimus -> Guest4903 01:39:09 --- quit: cajg (*.net *.split) 01:39:09 --- quit: rpcope (*.net *.split) 01:39:09 --- quit: nighty- (*.net *.split) 01:39:24 --- join: nighty- (~cp@www.taiyolabs.com) joined #forth 01:39:26 --- join: rpcope (~GOTZNC@162.245.217.4) joined #forth 01:39:28 --- quit: phadthai (*.net *.split) 01:39:29 --- quit: zy]x[yz (*.net *.split) 01:39:42 --- join: phadthai (mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net) joined #forth 01:39:47 --- join: zy]x[yz (~corey@71.59.19.88) joined #forth 01:40:28 --- join: a3f (~a3f@unaffiliated/a3f) joined #forth 01:50:59 --- join: cajg (~cajg@149.18.28.17) joined #forth 02:26:57 --- quit: karswell` (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 02:28:10 --- join: karswell` (~user@52.209.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 02:28:59 --- quit: mnemnia (Remote host closed the connection) 02:48:32 "s the best programming language there is with the least compromises" - sounds like silverbullet, tbh 02:49:06 sounds like machine code 02:51:18 depends on definition of "best" ) 02:51:49 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 03:07:57 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:31:02 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 03:47:30 --- quit: groovy2shoes (Quit: Leaving) 04:13:02 --- quit: event-horizon (Quit: Leaving) 04:41:28 --- join: GeDaMo (~GeDaMo@212.225.83.98) joined #forth 04:47:31 --- quit: mtsd (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 07:38:28 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 07:39:24 --- join: impomatic (~impomatic@host86-190-54-160.range86-190.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 07:42:54 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 07:47:50 --- quit: nighty (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 08:45:19 --- join: neceve (~ncv@79.115.225.255) joined #forth 08:45:20 --- quit: neceve (Changing host) 08:45:20 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 09:12:56 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@49.228.98.72) joined #forth 09:12:56 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 09:37:27 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 10:06:02 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 10:08:56 --- join: zincing (~zincing@2a03:1b20:2:f702::2de) joined #forth 10:35:00 --- quit: gravicappa (Remote host closed the connection) 10:57:36 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Remote host closed the connection) 11:25:02 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 11:46:51 --- quit: Vendan (*.net *.split) 11:47:14 --- join: Vendan (Vendan@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe70:5b6b) joined #forth 12:07:35 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 12:15:00 --- join: dys (~dys@ip-109-44-1-144.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 12:49:57 It absolutely does depend on your definition of the best 12:50:14 my definition of the best wil be very different than someone elses definition of the best 13:00:09 But I can assure you that according to my own definition of the best forth is absolutely the best language I have ever found 13:03:07 --- join: Mat4 (~claude4@ip5b41030d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 13:04:50 hello 13:05:57 hi 13:08:12 --- join: CORDIC (~user@178-221-81-75.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) joined #forth 13:09:15 So I'm still wondering what exactly goes into a C FFI... Gforth compiles wrapper code around the foreign calls using gcc, what other ways are there? 13:10:21 You can load the parameters to registers / stack depending on calling convention then just call 13:12:35 --- quit: DKordic (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 13:12:36 or create a stack frame, backup used registers and then call 13:14:22 okay, and how does one get the code into memory to call? dlopen? How does one get dlopen into memory to call? 13:16:20 which causes me to wonder how C does it, and makes me realize: I don't actually know. 13:17:19 my best guess is that the ELF file somehow indicates what it needs to link to and that happens automatically when the program is run 13:17:59 you typical link c programs against used libraries. Depending on the oeprating system this can be done statical (at compile time though code addition) or dynamic (at program loading) 13:18:21 be aware this description is somewhat simplificated 13:20:15 would it even be possible to statically link forth to C? 13:21:22 that depend on the Forth implementation but principal yes, if the Forth system is compiled as shared library (DLL for example) 13:22:10 and header files exist 13:24:23 why do you ask ? 13:24:25 So you'd have to recompile your forth system "with support"? 13:24:47 It just seems difficult to get much useful stuff done without calling into C 13:24:47 The only one you really need is dlopen 13:26:01 reepca: Gforth does not require recompilation, only wrapping of required library functions. 13:26:52 Doesn't it then require that wherever it is deployed has to have a gcc? 13:27:19 ("it" here meaning a program that uses C libraries) 13:28:18 Are you trying to make something "portable"? :P 13:28:45 If not "portable", then at least "doesn't require 100MB of support programs" 13:29:36 I haven't use the C interface of Gforth before, because of some restrictions and it unfinished state (in my opinion). You should ask the Gforth developers for a detailed answer 13:29:49 I'd be okay with it being non-portable or less-portable, but requiring gcc seems a bit much. That's why I'm interested in alternatives to wrapping. 13:30:16 anyway I need to head out for a couple hours, will read backlog 14:23:54 --- quit: GeDaMo (Remote host closed the connection) 14:33:44 --- quit: Mat4 (Quit: Leaving) 14:35:40 --- quit: dzho (Quit: leaving) 14:36:08 --- join: dzho (~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 14:39:48 --- quit: dzho (Client Quit) 14:39:57 --- join: dzho (~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 14:41:30 --- quit: dzho (Client Quit) 14:41:39 --- join: dzho (~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 14:56:32 --- quit: zincing (Quit: Leaving) 14:58:17 --- join: dual (~bonafide@cpe-74-75-153-119.maine.res.rr.com) joined #forth 15:23:33 --- quit: crc (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:23:59 --- join: crc (uid2647@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bjeufswpgxtgzgzh) joined #forth 15:29:59 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 15:35:18 --- quit: nighty (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 15:48:23 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 15:51:35 --- quit: nighty (Remote host closed the connection) 16:08:26 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:299c:2e70:253f:3519) joined #forth 16:11:47 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 16:13:33 --- quit: koz_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 16:26:02 --- join: koz_ (~koz@121.99.240.58) joined #forth 17:06:42 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:17:27 --- join: nighty (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 17:28:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +v crc 17:34:52 --- quit: Zarutian (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:47:48 --- quit: dzho (Quit: leaving) 17:54:59 --- join: dzho (~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 17:58:05 --- quit: dzho (Client Quit) 17:58:19 --- join: dzho (~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 18:02:45 --- quit: dzho (Client Quit) 18:02:57 --- join: dzho (~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 18:29:52 --- join: neceve (~ncv@79.115.225.255) joined #forth 18:29:53 --- quit: neceve (Changing host) 18:29:53 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 19:22:54 --- quit: beretta (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 19:32:03 --- join: mark4 (~mark4@138-229-170-157.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) joined #forth 19:32:23 anyone awake? 19:34:14 marginally 20:39:47 aloha 20:40:02 I AM AWAKE AND READY TO DISCUSS FORTH 20:40:46 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 20:42:45 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@49.228.98.72) joined #forth 20:42:45 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 20:47:57 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:18:48 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 22:10:30 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@14.207.45.251) joined #forth 22:10:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 23:16:08 --- join: mtsd (4d6e3d64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.110.61.100) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/17.01.10