00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.12.26 00:28:32 --- quit: nighty (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 00:32:47 --- join: nighty (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 00:44:30 --- quit: nighty (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00:47:52 --- join: dys (~dys@ip-109-44-3-163.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 01:09:59 --- quit: nighty- (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 01:11:40 --- join: nighty- (~cp@www.taiyolabs.com) joined #forth 01:20:15 --- join: nighty (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 01:26:40 --- quit: nighty (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 01:38:41 --- join: nighty (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 01:57:49 --- quit: dys (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02:07:05 --- join: dys (~dys@ip-109-44-3-163.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 02:37:31 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 03:32:14 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 04:00:00 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 04:35:50 --- join: Mat4 (~claude4@ip5b40a23a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 04:38:31 John[Lisbeth]: https://svfig.github.io/ 04:43:41 --- quit: Mat4 (Quit: Leaving) 04:52:11 --- quit: nighty (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 04:55:44 --- quit: true-grue (Quit: Leaving) 04:56:03 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 04:56:50 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 05:27:13 --- quit: nighty (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 05:34:59 --- join: timeslice (~photon@1.132.96.99) joined #forth 05:38:17 --- part: timeslice left #forth 05:38:34 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 06:18:58 --- join: KipIngram1 (~KipIngram@2602:302:d182:c5a0:c4b1:2f76:6a60:d08a) joined #forth 06:20:07 --- part: KipIngram1 left #forth 06:37:06 --- join: John[Lisbeth] (~user@2601:601:8f01:a6a0:d47b:db20:396f:e657) joined #forth 06:37:17 Sorry I had to disconnect but my previous question about when forth day is stands 06:37:22 I wanna got meet all the forth people 06:44:35 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 07:34:36 --- join: ricky_ricardo (~rickyrica@2601:240:4203:ecb0:809e:1cfb:2da5:f2b2) joined #forth 08:24:20 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:08:25 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 09:20:58 --- join: proteus-guy (~proteusgu@node-yqc.pool-125-24.dynamic.totbb.net) joined #forth 09:45:20 --- quit: John[Lisbeth] (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:45:32 --- join: John[Lisbeth] (~user@2601:601:8f01:a6a0:d47b:db20:396f:e657) joined #forth 09:52:24 --- join: neceve (~ncv@79.114.90.171) joined #forth 09:52:24 --- quit: neceve (Changing host) 09:52:24 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 10:00:45 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 10:32:16 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@172-97-187-172.cpe.distributel.net) joined #forth 11:44:20 Could someone explane POSTPONE to me? I get IMMEDIATE, but POSTPONE confuses me. 12:02:22 koz_: I found this explanation to be pretty good: http://wickedsource.tumblr.com/post/66804897524/1-the-forth-challenge-what-is-forth-forth-is 12:04:48 pointfree: Thanks, shall read! 12:14:01 --- quit: rgrinberg (Remote host closed the connection) 12:28:49 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 12:29:38 POSTPONE. The most difficult Forth word to grok. :) 12:30:09 Or there are other candidates? :) 12:47:46 true-grue: I wouldn't know. 12:48:02 Although apparently, according to the late Jeff Fox, it's a Word That Should Not Be Used. 12:50:42 it isnt that hard, basically look up the following words CA and append that to the current compilation, no? 12:52:44 It's just one of many ANS rudiments. 12:53:53 Seriously, it's time to get over it finally. 12:55:31 Why do you need ANS? For code reuse? To use all these great ANS libraries in your application? Oh, I see no such libraries. 12:56:18 I like ANS Forth for one thing, as a source of inspiration for words to implement that might be neat to use. 12:57:21 but then again I like reading other forths to see how they are implemented and if they too have stuff one could use. 12:58:05 however for ultra portability nothing seems to beat FCODE from OpenFirmware 12:58:57 Sure. There are many good ideas far beyond ANS. Like COMPILER/FORTH scheme instead of immediate/postpone/etc. It's a bit strange, but most famous commercial apps in Forth were written in the times of Forth-83. 12:59:24 (which basically what OpenFirmware FCODE was) 13:00:24 That's why Forth-83 is still more important. Because many good Forth systems and applications were written using this standard. And you can't say the same about ANS94. 13:00:37 I think those famous cmmercial applications in Forth came about around Forth-83 because the lack of dominance of one or three ISAs like today 13:01:59 (I am mainly talking about stuff like PCs, Tablets, Smartphones and such and not more specialized stuff like MCUs or SOCs are mainly used for) 13:02:49 Well, remember MacForth. It was very popular Mac app. And it was for desktops. 13:03:24 Or remember StarFlight. Great game! Very popular for that time. And it was written for IBM PC. 13:03:34 So, no MCUs, no custom hardware. 13:03:53 true-grue: was it just for the 68K version of Macs? Because what I have read, Forth was very popular on Apple ][ 13:04:47 Yes, it was for old Macintosh. 13:05:30 true-grue: heck I have seen an specialized CNC multi tool mill whose control computer is an later model Apple ][ 'clone'. (The original gave up the ghost years earlier) 13:06:17 true-grue: and it had rather rudimentary gui but you could get the usual forth prompt rather easily. 13:07:14 (the 'clone' was basically built from modern parts by following the, now scanned in, engineering manual that came with the machine) 13:09:07 true-grue: re the old Macintoshes: I particularly liked that in even MacOS 9 you still had the 68K emulator they wrote to support old programs. You dont see that kind of back ward compatibility much today. 13:10:25 I really like the old Macintosh. It was very impressive technology for 84. 13:10:35 And I like the later idea of HyperCard. 13:10:35 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 13:11:29 wasnt Myst basically an huge HyperCard deck? 13:11:37 There was good old logic game for Mac called ChipWits. The game was written in MacForth. 13:12:21 true-grue: does the files for ChipWits and MacForth still exists somewhere? Does Archive.org have them? 13:12:29 Yes! And it was even not their first game written in HyperCard. 13:12:36 Sure. Just a moment. 13:13:05 http://macintoshgarden.org/games/chipwits 13:13:37 thanks 13:14:58 talking about the impressiveness of Machintosh, the other day many moons ago I went through the stuff behind QuickDraw 13:15:01 In this game you need to control robot in some form of graphical programming (almost like SeaForth/GreenArrays). 13:15:32 http://www.folklore.org/ProjectView.py?project=Macintosh&topic=QuickDraw :) 13:16:02 and I am still find how MASKs resources were kept rather kewl (the masks used for bitmap clipping) 13:18:03 hmm.. I have rather illuminating thought that is bit hard for me to put in words. 13:18:47 --- quit: Keshl_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:19:06 --- join: Keshl_ (~Purple@24.115.181.94.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 13:19:13 If you have implemented an cellular automata simulation, say the Conway's Game Of Life then you probably understand what I am getting at with the following analogy. 13:19:51 https://www.amazon.com/Cellular-Automata-Machines-Environment-Engineering/dp/026252631X 13:20:00 Have you read this book? I did :) 13:20:31 BTW, the code examples in this book are in Forth. 13:21:28 If you imagine the comp/|sci|eng|etc field like the field of such Cellular Automata then it occurs to me that, distant parts are only effecting each other first now due to the limited speed of propagation. 13:21:39 nope, I didnt read that book 13:23:17 --- quit: Keshl_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:23:30 what I mean by this analogy is that good ideas, implementations and such that solved problems that were the ?death-knell? of some other products or projects werent known to the people who needed them at the time they needed them. 13:23:46 --- join: Keshl_ (~Purple@24.115.181.94.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 13:25:48 --- quit: Keshl_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:26:25 --- join: Keshl_ (~Purple@24.115.181.94.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 13:29:18 That's why is very important to learn a lot about old, forgotten ideas. 13:30:58 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 13:32:38 --- join: Keshl__ (~Purple@24.115.181.94.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 13:32:46 "If you keep only to the most traveled path and never follow the overgrown ones then you never going to see anything but current fads" -Unknown 13:32:57 --- quit: Keshl_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:35:38 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 13:52:00 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 13:55:51 --- quit: Uniju (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 13:55:57 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 14:04:57 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 14:43:42 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:52:07 --- join: karswell` (~user@160.49.93.209.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 14:52:11 --- quit: karswell (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 14:57:24 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 16:09:36 --- quit: dys (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:00:03 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 17:01:14 --- join: nighty (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 17:21:34 --- quit: proteus-guy (Quit: Leaving) 17:21:55 --- join: proteus-guy (~proteusgu@node-yqc.pool-125-24.dynamic.totbb.net) joined #forth 17:36:55 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 17:41:38 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 18:38:22 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 18:43:00 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 18:46:05 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 19:08:56 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:957f:861e:9b52:cdf1) joined #forth 19:12:19 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 19:13:23 --- quit: mnemnia (Remote host closed the connection) 19:18:00 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:957f:861e:9b52:cdf1) joined #forth 20:03:24 --- quit: John[Lisbeth] (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:06:05 --- join: John[Lisbeth] (~user@c-73-225-140-108.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:27:39 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:05:00 --- quit: koisoke (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 21:29:42 --- quit: karswell` (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 21:30:40 --- join: karswell` (~user@160.49.93.209.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 21:33:30 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 21:38:06 --- join: koisoke (xef4@epilogue.org) joined #forth 21:41:44 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 21:55:00 --- join: dys (~dys@ip-109-44-3-163.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 22:04:39 --- quit: koisoke (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 22:11:35 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 22:19:01 --- join: koisoke (xef4@epilogue.org) joined #forth 22:41:12 oh, how I love old macs 22:47:01 but not xerox alto!? 22:47:04 j/k :) 22:47:31 had no access to it) 22:48:54 me neither, actually 22:50:02 the only apple product I owned was an Apple ][ (for which there were a few forths though :) 22:50:14 well ][+ 22:50:53 I had some fun with graforth on it at some point 22:55:14 --- quit: neceve (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:55:55 --- join: neceve (~ncv@cablelink-86-127-189-177.rdstm.ro) joined #forth 22:56:08 --- quit: neceve (Changing host) 22:56:08 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 22:59:15 nerfur: was never a huge fan except for the short time osx ran on ppc 23:00:21 amiga was >> bang/buck in 68k era, and classic mac os on ppc was pretty sad on a machine that could do real memory management 23:01:13 I also used amiga a lot 23:01:31 Yes, Graforth was very interesting Forth system. 23:02:45 And I think that Forth was more popular on 8-bit Atari than on Apple II. 23:05:00 Amiga... How about X68000? :) 23:06:20 quite expesnive and have never used one and don't know much about the platform 23:06:30 hmm that's quite possible about atari forth 23:06:34 I've never owned an atari 23:07:18 i think the only 68k forth i have used is jforth on amiga 23:07:54 possibly that many apple users used mostly the "cp/m card" to have z80 business tools, this was also part of the apple I had 23:08:05 Any known apps written in Forth for Amiga? Maybe some popular games? 23:08:22 true-grue: none i'm aware of 23:08:39 I've never used forth on the amiga myself 23:08:45 phadthai: that is funny, and then the x86 boards for iigs 23:08:47 it's the machine I learned C on however 23:08:56 koisoke: heh 23:10:11 http://mmondor.pulsar-zone.net/img_gallery/screenshots/mess-apple2p-videx-softcard.png 23:10:30 but, that was lately, for nostalgy only, using mess 23:11:03 http://mmondor.pulsar-zone.net/img_gallery/screenshots/netbsd-apple2.png 23:11:14 and the last one is actually just xscreensaver's apple module :) 23:11:32 wait. what. 23:11:42 phadthai: what processor is that actually running on 23:11:43 which can bind pty to be used as a terminal, so I ran "login" in it for fun 23:12:04 ah 23:12:13 both screenshots taken on NetBSD/x86_64 23:12:37 ah hmm maybe the last one i686 at the time 23:12:38 yeah, amiga was fantastic machine 23:40:07 --- quit: karswell` (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 23:40:51 --- join: proteusguy (~proteus-g@2405:9800:b400:495c:4a51:b7ff:fe38:d966) joined #forth 23:41:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 23:47:23 --- quit: proteus-guy (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 23:55:59 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.12.26