00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.12.19 00:06:29 --- join: John[Lisbeth] (~user@2601:601:8f01:a6a0:a54b:5ee1:d1f0:b6d) joined #forth 00:08:25 --- quit: John[Lisbeth] (Remote host closed the connection) 00:37:29 --- quit: X-Scale (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00:52:32 --- join: roboguy` (~roboguy_@cpe-98-156-12-59.kc.res.rr.com) joined #forth 01:06:08 --- quit: roboguy` () 01:16:53 Does GForth have proper tail calls? Mine seem to still be overflowing the return stack. 01:22:02 there is RECURSE but afaik it does not do tail call elimination by itself 01:29:36 koisoke: So proper tail calls = implementation-dependent? 01:30:38 yes 01:31:22 koisoke: Ah, I see. Thanks! 02:16:06 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 02:51:54 --- join: Mat4 (~claude4@ip5b411249.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 02:56:57 koz_, for such questions it is probably the best to ask the developers themself. For this, just post on comp.lang.forth about how tail calls are implementable and ignore additional answers which easily lead to endless side discussions. 02:58:29 (which implementable I mean with Gforth of course) 02:58:51 sorry I mean for Gforth (better foumulation) 02:59:34 which=with 03:01:47 --- quit: Mat4 (Quit: Leaving) 03:25:34 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 03:44:01 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 03:47:31 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 03:51:55 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 04:33:32 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 04:47:34 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 06:08:05 --- join: ricky_ricardo (~rickyrica@2602:306:328f:79f0:d102:8fb5:dc6b:9167) joined #forth 06:12:32 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 06:17:46 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 06:37:54 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@24-246-56-85.cable.teksavvy.com) joined #forth 06:57:43 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 07:23:36 --- quit: rgrinberg (Remote host closed the connection) 07:59:03 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Remote host closed the connection) 08:21:38 --- join: neceve (~ncv@79.114.83.228) joined #forth 08:21:38 --- quit: neceve (Changing host) 08:21:38 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 09:07:03 --- quit: nighty (Remote host closed the connection) 09:40:08 --- join: X-Scale (~ARM@188.38.43.5.rev.vodafone.pt) joined #forth 09:47:19 --- join: [X-Scale] (~ARM@107.55.43.5.rev.vodafone.pt) joined #forth 09:48:21 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 09:48:23 --- nick: [X-Scale] -> X-Scale 10:10:17 --- join: workp (~workp@host-2-96-68-6.as13285.net) joined #forth 10:18:21 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 10:37:22 referring to chapters 9 and 11 of starting forth, I think there is a detail missing here. where it describes the structure of these dictionary entries, in chapter 9 it refers to a field as the code pointer, which I'm guessing is the address of some machine code to execute the body of the word. but then in chapter 11 when explaining create, it uses this field for an xt, which I would expect to be the addre 10:37:28 ss of some forth word's body 10:39:19 so it seems like there needs to be either another field in there to indicate the tyoe of that field (machine code vs forth xt), or it determines what it is based on some pre-allocated range of addresses (i.e. addresses from a to b refer to machine code and addresses from c to d refer to forth words) 10:47:34 does that sound about right or am I missing something? 11:01:39 zy]x[yz: Let me have a look again. 11:03:11 The code pointer is an arbitrary xt. 11:03:26 So I'm not sure how what you're describing is even an issue. 11:03:46 Plus, it states that this is a conceptual model. 11:03:51 (not like, the *actual implementation*) 11:05:54 Thus, an implementation is free to do whatever they want with that layout, provided that 'everything works'. 11:21:06 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 11:23:35 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 11:40:02 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 12:00:12 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12:00:21 < koz_> Plus, it states that this is a conceptual model. -- fair enough, what I'm asking is what does a typical actual implementation look like? 12:00:42 zy]x[yz: You'd need to look at an actual implementation to answer that. 12:00:54 And honestly, when it comes to *Forth*, 'typical' seems a heavily misplaced word. 12:01:28 well if the spirit of forth is to understand how it works, it doesn't do much good to talk only about concepts and not about implementations does it? 12:08:49 --- join: ricky_ricardo (~rickyrica@2602:306:328f:79f0:d102:8fb5:dc6b:9167) joined #forth 12:10:44 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Remote host closed the connection) 12:19:55 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 12:48:33 --- quit: banonos (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12:58:15 --- join: chatter (5fd365c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.95.211.101.196) joined #forth 13:00:54 --- quit: chatter (Client Quit) 13:12:27 --- join: mat4 (~Claude@ip5b4114b9.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 13:30:05 --- quit: workp (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 13:31:45 --- join: workp (~workp@host-84-13-110-11.opaltelecom.net) joined #forth 13:51:32 --- quit: mat4 (Quit: Verlassend) 14:02:42 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:33:19 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:37:26 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 14:44:25 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 14:54:43 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 15:03:07 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 15:06:31 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 15:16:12 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 15:20:15 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 15:25:52 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 15:33:18 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 15:42:11 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 15:44:19 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 15:53:24 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 15:55:14 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 16:04:41 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16:06:19 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 16:15:04 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 16:17:01 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 16:25:16 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 16:27:53 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 16:36:18 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 16:38:20 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 16:43:52 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 16:50:05 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 16:55:37 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 17:01:10 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@24-246-56-85.cable.teksavvy.com) joined #forth 17:01:53 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 17:07:05 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 17:08:04 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 17:15:01 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 17:20:16 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17:26:56 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 17:35:20 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 17:37:16 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-72-50-85-243.prtc.net) joined #forth 17:42:42 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 17:48:10 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 17:57:01 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 18:05:11 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 18:09:19 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 18:16:57 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 18:22:11 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 18:25:17 --- quit: nal (Remote host closed the connection) 18:25:22 --- join: nighty (~nighty@p001.gate.atson.jp) joined #forth 18:31:25 --- quit: neceve (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:31:26 --- join: ncv (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 18:33:33 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 18:38:47 --- join: Jookia (~Jookia@gateway/tor-sasl/jookia) joined #forth 18:39:54 o/ How much can you modify the interpreter in Forth? Can you create a introspective tools like a debugger or backtrace system in it? 18:41:22 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 18:50:01 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 18:55:24 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 19:01:53 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 19:07:07 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 19:13:12 --- join: karswell (~user@151.226.90.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 19:13:48 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 19:18:28 --- quit: workp (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 19:19:11 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 19:24:55 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 19:30:01 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 19:38:41 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 19:44:45 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 19:49:09 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 19:54:10 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 20:03:20 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 20:07:33 --- join: ricky_ricardo (~rickyrica@2601:240:4203:ecb0:b586:b82d:b1d9:e441) joined #forth 20:13:41 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 20:17:27 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 20:22:20 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 20:29:21 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 20:37:12 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 20:38:35 --- quit: Jookia (Quit: Jookia) 20:40:32 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Remote host closed the connection) 20:45:10 --- join: Jookia (~Jookia@gateway/tor-sasl/jookia) joined #forth 20:53:17 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 20:58:59 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 21:08:07 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 21:16:33 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 21:19:41 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 21:24:42 --- quit: ncv (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 21:25:31 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 21:29:11 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 21:30:58 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 21:33:06 --- join: [X-Scale] (~ARM@107.55.43.5.rev.vodafone.pt) joined #forth 21:35:23 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 21:35:23 --- nick: [X-Scale] -> X-Scale 21:40:18 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 21:42:43 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 21:48:02 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 21:54:42 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 21:59:48 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22:08:36 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 22:09:29 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 22:14:55 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 22:21:16 --- join: ff-mike (252126be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.37.33.38.190) joined #forth 22:22:33 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 22:30:30 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 22:33:37 --- quit: ff-mike (Quit: Page closed) 22:33:51 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 22:42:14 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 22:46:48 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 22:54:16 --- quit: Jookia (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 22:55:40 --- quit: DGASAU (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:56:00 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 22:57:25 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 23:04:54 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 23:07:31 --- join: Jookia (~Jookia@gateway/tor-sasl/jookia) joined #forth 23:12:39 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 23:16:13 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 23:23:32 --- quit: DGASAU (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23:23:49 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 23:25:37 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:26:58 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 23:34:40 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:2075:181d:9972:303c) joined #forth 23:35:26 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 23:37:22 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 23:39:11 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 23:43:01 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:49:11 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 23:55:37 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.12.19