00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.11.06 00:22:31 --- join: magneticduck (~magneticd@95.95.105.53) joined #forth 01:24:03 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 01:40:14 --- quit: nighty (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 01:49:08 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 01:56:35 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 01:01:53 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@node-xym.pool-125-24.dynamic.totbb.net) joined #forth 01:01:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 01:04:43 --- join: ziofork (~guru@2a02:8084:a480:1080:5e93:a2ff:fea2:6077) joined #forth 01:20:56 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 01:47:52 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 02:03:02 --- quit: dcs (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 02:25:56 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:34f0:570b:79c3:28cf) joined #forth 02:30:11 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 02:32:10 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 03:36:19 John[Lisbeth]: that's exactly the reason why nobody who has any reason does this outside of university classes. 03:39:08 ASau: at least he's posted some damn code, instead of blethering about hypothetical mathematical constructs :-D 04:54:42 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-64-237-235-8.prtc.net) joined #forth 04:57:52 --- quit: groovy2shoes (Quit: Leaving) 05:01:31 --- join: groovy2shoes (~groovy2sh@unaffiliated/groovebot) joined #forth 05:52:37 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 06:11:41 --- join: dcs (~moby@189-105-251-179.user.veloxzone.com.br) joined #forth 07:40:46 --- join: [X-Scale] (~ARM@46.50.46.32) joined #forth 07:42:05 --- quit: X-Scale (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 07:42:05 --- nick: [X-Scale] -> X-Scale 08:13:23 --- quit: nighty- (Remote host closed the connection) 08:14:57 --- join: nighty- (~cp@www.taiyolabs.com) joined #forth 08:36:39 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 08:42:22 gordonjcp, +1 08:57:12 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:21:44 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 09:58:11 --- quit: dcs (Quit: bye) 10:10:30 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 10:44:20 pointfree: psoc code in cforth seems to be associated with JTAG of the Atmel ARM AT91SAM7 CPU support added by Mitch, so my guess is you've detected an acronym overload. 10:47:49 --- join: ricky_ricardo (~rickyrica@2601:240:4203:ecb0:91d2:b1ba:a54d:9fa4) joined #forth 10:51:25 --- quit: ziofork (Quit: Quit!) 11:02:46 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 11:03:46 --- join: dcs (~moby@189-105-251-179.user.veloxzone.com.br) joined #forth 11:39:19 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f15b:94e0:3ae0:dbe1) joined #forth 13:18:15 --- quit: nisstyre (Remote host closed the connection) 13:40:00 --- join: ASau` (~user@89.15.239.65) joined #forth 13:42:15 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 13:54:08 * dys just added postpone and immediate to firmforth 13:54:33 that means you now can jit-compile parts of the jit-compiler :-) 13:55:33 hi, how to subtract 51.7397432432 from 1.5 (receiving -50.2397432432 as result) in forth? 14:01:58 --- quit: magneticduck (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 14:02:11 Ha-ha. 14:02:18 Welcome to FPN in Forth. :D 14:05:59 s" N1" >float drop s" N1" >float drop f- f. 14:06:20 If you do that without error handlilng. 14:06:33 Now you can see why Forth sucks so much. :) 14:06:57 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 14:07:34 --- join: magneticduck (~magneticd@a95-95-105-53.cpe.netcabo.pt) joined #forth 14:19:44 ASau: thanks, ASau 14:21:58 ASau: working in gforth. not working in SwiftForth. 14:40:03 I've jury rigged my bluetooth keyboard so that I can ssh with two phones at once so I've got dual terminal monitors at work 14:48:27 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:02:39 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 15:06:30 Gonna try to keep developing my forth today at work with my dual phone monitors 15:10:30 Someone at the New England Forth Interest Group wrote a forth interpreter in which everything is floating point. It looked like a really much better solution than having a proliferation of stacks and parallel wordsets. 15:11:23 ...and if you have a FPU (most things do these days) you don't really lose performance. 15:11:53 I think I am going to have my division give you an integer and the modulus 15:12:12 and if they want to create their own division word that works differently they are free to 15:12:58 alot of my stuff is going to be copied from forth's design except like factor you will be able to quote a series of word and put that quoted series on the stack, and you'll also be able to put strings and whatever on the stack 15:13:14 John[Lisbeth]: Are you saying you will you have / mean /mod by default? 15:13:34 I think I am going to steal integer division from javascript 15:13:43 so it will return the integer answer plus the remainder 15:14:19 so modulus will be like : modulus / swap drop ; 15:17:05 keep in mind my stack is stored as a linked list in an array in javascript 15:17:17 so my stack can only get as big as half the limit of an array size in javascript 15:17:50 --- quit: magneticduck (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 15:17:54 which should be bounded only by memory constraints 15:21:29 the thing about having my linked list be in an array in javascript is I can store normal javascript objects in it 15:21:37 so that allows me to push an array straight onto my stack 15:21:43 or push an object onto my stack or push a function onto my stack 15:21:52 and it will be a native javascript array/object/function/variable 15:21:56 how does that relate in any way to Forth? 15:22:09 well it's pretty forthy 15:22:14 uses rpn 15:22:22 that's incidental 15:22:29 I mean where else am I gonna talk about it? 15:22:38 lots of things use rpn that aren't Forth 15:22:44 sure 15:22:45 Postscript, Python... 15:22:58 the floating point stack in the ZX Spectrum 15:23:04 I would say python is it's own beast 15:23:14 and postscript is kinda old but not as relevant as forth 15:24:10 I would talk to the guys in #concatenative but I've already gotten familliar with the people in here 15:24:24 besides postfix languages are good news for forth 15:54:19 I think it is arguable what makes something a forth and I think Chuck Moore's forth clearly comes from reverse polish notation 15:56:33 even moore's current forth, colorforth, is just his own most recent implementation of reverse polish notation. It's clearly not ans or any other standard 16:07:10 regarding being able to push any object onto the datastack or returnstack: this reminds me of an discussed (but not implemented alas) forth that was meant to run on the KeyKos os. In it the stacks were basically nodes (a type of primitve kernel object used to hold what is now called object-capabilities, think memory-safe-runtime references) 16:07:58 any cut off in my last message? I can never tell with how long IRC lines are allowed to be 16:27:21 Zarutian: your last message ended with "references)" 16:28:06 good, no cut of then. 16:29:00 Zarutian: I was once writing a "capability-based forth" I had no idea someone else had the same thought. 16:29:58 In it the "word definition" and the "rights" would be one and the same. 16:31:14 --- quit: nal (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16:32:03 I was thinking that if I build up forth with capabilities all the way from the bottom up it would do things only as intended for *the final wordset*, however there are many ways to implement the same word... 16:32:39 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-64-237-234-198.prtc.net) joined #forth 16:33:13 ...perhaps it would need to be somehow declarative or constraint-based. 16:37:18 pointfree: well, object-capabilities seem to me the only sane way to do the foundation of access control in computers (which computer security is nearly all about) 16:41:52 Zarutian: Indeed. ACL's are Whac-a-Mole security. A few people are starting to see this and now we're getting some form of capability security grafted onto linux with project capsicum. 16:42:32 --- join: nighty (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 16:43:27 pointfree: yebb and from the userland side of the kernel userland divide we are getting CloudABI. It has only condensed so far on FreeBSD and OpenBSD but GNU/Linux is in the works 16:49:24 Zarutian: I still think it would be cool to see fully fleshed-out object-capability IoT Forth. I started with some crypto primitives to accomplish this http://hub.darcs.net/pointfree/forth-crypt 16:49:26 I'm actually not sure what a full object-capability system would feel like. I think a lot of it depends on security at the user interaction layer. 16:50:41 pointfree: would feel like not much other than there is no "mother may I do what you requested?" problem 17:02:43 pointfree: as, say, designating a file in an filechooser (which would be part of the windowing subsystem but not the basic rendering system of windows) would give the application that invoked the filechooser the filedescriptor of the file instead of just the path-string to it. 17:05:01 well, I am off to bed. I will probably be here again after 17:00 UTC or so, if anyone wants to chat about this kind of stuff or Forth in general. 17:06:22 Interesting. 17:06:28 Zarutian: I wasn't sure how I would secure the random number used by the owner capability stored on the server/in the kernel. Indistinguishability obfuscation, a TPM chip? 17:08:22 pointfree: well, this is the whole discussion on the difference between sparse, password and c-list implementations. It is also the discussion about unguessability versus unforgability 17:09:25 but now I really must be off 17:09:27 cya around 17:09:42 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 17:09:59 good talking with you Zarutian! 17:10:32 So I've got a situation in my mind where I want to insert into a linked list, but as it's part of a hash table I only want to insert if it's not already present. But the way I envision it, it's going to be given a pointer to the pointer to the current head of the list, because of the case where the list is empty. But I imagine a normal "insert" would just be given the pointer to the first node in a linked list and would return the new 17:10:33 pointer to the first node. So I'm wondering... would it make sense to name this word I'm thinking of "insert?!" 17:10:41 (did that second one make it?) 17:43:23 maybe you should show your source, repca 17:43:25 reepca 17:48:35 I don't think that would clarify much. Basically I'm trying to refactor some hash table code so that instead of having a >TABLE word that inserts into the table (which is really complicated and does a lot of work, since it has 4 arguments - a string, a table address, and the size of the table) I would have CREATEd hash tables give the address of the bucket, and from there just use ordinary list-manipulating words (much simpler). But 17:48:35 it's a bit different from what I imagine ordinary list-manipulating words would do, since it has to: a. insert only if the key-value pair isn't already there, and b. change a pointer in memory instead of returning a modified pointer. 17:55:39 reepca: Have you considered just using the forth dictionary as your already existing linked list instead of implementing a new linked list data structure? 18:40:40 pointfree: how would I use that for multiple lists? Would I use word lists? I ask because this is sort of a translation of an assignment from C wherein I'm supposed to implement a hash table that uses different lists for each bucket. 18:59:47 reepca: well I was thinking if a linked list only links to its own elements you can keep all the different linked lists in the same forth dictionary without partitioning them into separate memory areas. That would make for less internal fragmentation. 19:06:50 --- join: neceve (~ncv@79.113.73.105) joined #forth 19:06:50 --- quit: neceve (Changing host) 19:06:50 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 20:30:15 --- quit: nal (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 21:05:22 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 21:35:38 --- quit: proteusguy_sat2 (Remote host closed the connection) 23:07:50 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@c-73-6-60-72.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) joined #forth 23:16:50 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 23:33:27 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 23:37:38 --- quit: dcs (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 23:39:23 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f15b:94e0:3ae0:dbe1) joined #forth 23:48:57 --- join: proteusguy_satri (~proteusgu@180.183.133.11) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.11.06