00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.10.31 01:00:42 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 01:19:31 --- quit: joneshf-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 01:20:12 --- quit: dys (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01:21:12 --- quit: lucasaiu (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.50.2)) 01:40:31 --- join: dys (~dys@2003:5b:203b:100:6af7:28ff:fe06:801) joined #forth 01:41:46 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 01:49:35 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 02:03:54 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 02:29:49 --- join: timeslice (~photon@2001:8003:f10f:f800:260a:64ff:fe69:d6a9) joined #forth 02:39:55 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 02:42:29 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 03:01:10 yunfan: since the hardware stack operations grow in the correct direction (Towards higher addresses) and is under the parameter stack, to increase its available space one only needs to change the pointer of the parameter stack up [And block move any data on the parameter stack to reflect that change] 03:04:27 However if you find the vm memory constrained [Currently has 1MB of RAM], simply replace the (1<<20) in vm.c with whatever value you like 03:13:27 OriansJ: but what about in multiple vm case? 03:21:06 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 03:23:42 please indluge in my meaningless blog http://johnmorrisbeck.blogspot.com/ 03:27:08 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:8d53:1e9d:ae52:ed6) joined #forth 03:31:40 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 03:44:39 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 04:33:52 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 04:36:35 --- join: desolator (~quassel@broadband-188-255-97-129.nationalcablenetworks.ru) joined #forth 04:40:39 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Remote host closed the connection) 05:00:38 --- quit: desolator (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:27:17 sounds like mofaka OG to me... never was able to understand this "prison is cool" guys 05:27:38 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 05:28:58 pointfree: thanks! 05:30:38 --- join: ricky_ricardo (~rickyrica@2602:306:328f:79f0:68e4:41e8:6bac:a6b) joined #forth 05:37:49 --- quit: beretta (Quit: Leaving) 05:41:21 --- join: ASau` (~user@89.15.237.203) joined #forth 05:42:20 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 05:44:34 --- join: ASau`` (~user@dhcpcl7.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 05:46:15 --- quit: ASau` (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 05:53:14 --- nick: ASau`` -> ASau 06:07:02 --- quit: ASau (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:07:11 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 06:14:38 --- join: dcs (~moby@200-216-6-33.user.veloxzone.com.br) joined #forth 06:25:40 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@24-246-56-85.cable.teksavvy.com) joined #forth 06:29:19 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:d88:1008:6666:f2f4) joined #forth 06:33:54 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 06:34:54 --- join: ASau` (~user@89.15.237.203) joined #forth 06:36:42 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 06:38:59 --- join: ASau`` (~user@dhcpcl7.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 06:41:27 --- quit: ASau` (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 07:01:57 --- quit: ASau`` (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07:02:05 --- join: ASau`` (~user@dhcpcl7.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 07:09:06 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 07:22:00 --- quit: ggherdov`__ (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 07:25:49 --- join: ggherdov`__ (sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kihzplutqrpubrwv) joined #forth 07:30:20 --- join: ASau``` (~user@89.15.237.203) joined #forth 07:31:46 --- quit: ASau`` (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 07:33:55 --- join: ASau```` (~user@dhcpcl7.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 07:36:02 --- quit: ASau``` (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 07:43:11 --- quit: dcs (Quit: Leaving) 07:56:53 --- quit: ASau```` (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07:57:02 --- join: ASau```` (~user@dhcpcl7.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 08:03:35 --- join: desolator (~quassel@broadband-188-255-97-129.nationalcablenetworks.ru) joined #forth 08:16:41 --- quit: desolator (Remote host closed the connection) 08:51:13 --- join: ASau````` (~user@89.15.237.203) joined #forth 08:52:12 --- quit: ASau```` (Remote host closed the connection) 08:55:51 --- quit: ASau````` (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 09:01:12 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 09:24:09 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:458d:93c0:1e9:1282) joined #forth 09:28:20 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 09:45:27 --- join: ASau` (~user@89.15.237.203) joined #forth 09:47:20 --- quit: ASau (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:50:02 --- join: ASau`` (~user@dhcpcl7.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 09:51:07 --- quit: ASau` (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 10:03:49 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:458d:93c0:1e9:1282) joined #forth 10:05:50 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 10:17:32 --- join: lucasaiu (~user@fsf/member/lucasaiu) joined #forth 10:25:28 --- join: dys (~dys@ip-109-44-2-75.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 10:40:48 --- join: ASau``` (~user@89.15.237.203) joined #forth 10:41:59 --- quit: ASau`` (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 10:44:25 --- join: ASau```` (~user@dhcpcl7.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 10:46:30 --- quit: ASau``` (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 10:52:02 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:52:36 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:458d:93c0:1e9:1282) joined #forth 11:20:47 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 11:22:41 --- nick: ASau```` -> ASau 11:23:20 --- part: timeslice left #forth 11:30:02 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 11:36:37 --- join: ASau` (~user@89.15.237.203) joined #forth 11:37:05 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 11:39:42 --- join: ASau`` (~user@dhcpcl7.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 11:41:27 --- quit: ASau` (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 12:11:46 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 12:15:46 --- join: JDat (JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #forth 12:30:24 --- join: ASau``` (~user@89.15.237.203) joined #forth 12:30:58 --- quit: ASau`` (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 12:34:31 --- join: ASau```` (~user@dhcpcl7.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 12:36:20 --- quit: ASau``` (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 13:14:07 --- quit: DGASAU (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:14:37 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 13:24:44 --- join: ASau````` (~user@89.204.135.250) joined #forth 13:26:58 --- quit: ASau```` (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 13:29:12 --- quit: ASau````` (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 14:24:58 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 14:44:30 --- join: the_count (ac014251@gateway/web/freenode/ip.172.1.66.81) joined #forth 15:09:59 --- quit: the_count (Quit: Page closed) 15:19:08 yunfan: well the amount of memory that can be utilized by a non-segmented 32bit address is 4GiB; which if your forth needs exceed that, I highly recommend that you utilize the 64,128,256 or 512bit extensions which will allow utilization of as much memory as you are able to afford. 15:23:41 --- quit: Keshl (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:25:26 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15:46:09 OriansJ: that is of course if you are using an byteaddressed memory system. In the case of cell addressed then 32bit addresses give 16 GibiBytes assuming 4 byte cells. 15:50:38 Zarutian: Very true and it is even less if you are using a bit addressed system 16:07:21 There are also a few custom asics with 4Kb block sizes with only block addressing but the dominate form factor has become byte addressed systems [x86,ARM, PowerPC] 16:07:38 I wonder why ans forth uses "invert" instead of "not"... 16:09:32 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:10:45 reepca: because you are inverting the bits 16:11:08 --- join: dcs (bd69fbb3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.105.251.179) joined #forth 16:14:26 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 16:17:23 Bugward Compatibility. How about ``' invert Alias not''? 16:18:00 hi, how many are playing on flashforth@arduino ? just curiosity 16:18:30 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-64-237-237-31.prtc.net) joined #forth 16:18:34 me myself and I like the song 16:24:03 eldre: Which board? 16:31:58 --- quit: dcs (Quit: Leaving: me, myself, I; not eldre) 16:34:34 So words are usually supposed to be reusable, right? And yet I find that common advice seems to be to make them less general if it would otherwise be difficult to make it work with the stack. Is there a good compromise between reusability and sanity in words? 16:40:24 reepca: Yes, when lots of pieces are doing approximately the same thing, make a general case that solves it. Otherwise use common sense 16:44:02 Only by properly understanding a problem can you actually address it 16:49:13 --- join: Keshl (~Purple@24.115.181.94.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 16:58:56 --- join: ricky_ricardo (~rickyrica@2601:240:4203:ecb0:5dbb:755c:97a0:a220) joined #forth 17:05:09 DKordic: there's no board, just a questionm 17:07:00 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 17:11:43 do the operations like -trailing and /string change the string itself or just the reference to it? 17:16:34 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 18:06:59 --- join: nighty (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 18:31:34 Is anybody out in the Chicago area for FORTH day this year? 18:32:00 Would like to throw a meetup in the suburbs, gauging interest. 18:51:38 --- quit: JDat () 19:12:16 --- join: nisstyre (~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com) joined #forth 19:12:30 --- quit: nisstyre (Changing host) 19:12:30 --- join: nisstyre (~yourstrul@oftn/oswg-member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 19:35:18 OriansJ: nope what i mean is if i want to run mulitple forth vm on the server, for eg, 100k vm, can i limited the stack in a reasonable size 19:39:40 yunfan: well stage0 forth doesn't yet have stack bounds checking. However should you cap the vm at a given size, any code that attempts to exceed that bounds will automatically be halted with additional debug information 19:40:57 aka the vm is allocated 1MB, there is no way to exceed that value from inside the VM 19:42:07 The VM itself requires 38KB with an additional 4KB per instance 19:47:37 Thus should you wish to run 100K 1MiB VMs in parallel, you'll need approximately 98GiB of Ram 19:51:02 OriansJ: is it possible to let user diction linked to read-only system diction? 19:51:24 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 19:51:26 dictionary sorry 19:51:32 --- quit: nal (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 19:55:46 yunfan: Well without execute permissions, there is very little that could be done with a read-only dictionary. However if you mean make the system dictionary immune to user modification; that is easier since forth generally uses an append-only dictionary and you only need to flag the pages of the system dictionary as read/execute only 19:57:59 OriansJ: but i mean to let those multiple vm to linked to the only one system dictionary. 19:58:05 to save memory :D 20:00:19 yunfan: well that is a bit tricker as the VMs are fully seperate processes [Which provides additional protection] 20:03:15 Now you could embed the dictionary into the VMs themselves and on a modern system like Linux, only one copy would need to be in memory. 20:03:28 OriansJ: but could be forked from the same process 20:04:20 --- join: neceve (~ncv@86.125.241.206) joined #forth 20:04:21 --- quit: neceve (Changing host) 20:04:21 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 20:07:05 --- quit: taij33n (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:07:13 Given that spinning up 1VM or 100VMs, still only require 38KB for the raw functionality. 4KB per instance is needed for internal state tracking [Which can't be shared] and the rest of the Memory requirements are entirely based upon what is required by the programs running in the VM. They might only need 64KB or they might need a few GB. I don't have enough information about your particular use to provide specifics for potential 20:07:14 enhancements. 20:14:43 OriansJ: well in my case, i should consider 10k-100k vms 20:16:23 yunfan: Ok, now what sort of work are they expected to perform? 20:18:02 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 20:21:22 OriansJ: to replace the role of lua in nginx and redis 20:25:38 yunfan: I have a feeling you might be trying to solve the wrong problem. 20:27:22 OriansJ: maybe, but since i am not wring a auto driving software, nobody will be killed when i have it a try 20:31:20 yunfan: Then I recommend you perform a series of tests to determine the proper default memory allocation for the VMs, then you can shrink if it was too generous and you can optimize pieces if it too tight. 20:32:09 Assuming cleverness, 16KB per VM might be sufficient but I wouldn't hope to go much below that. 20:35:26 i want to provide a feature riched system dictionary, so user could alloct lesser ram 20:49:15 --- join: ricky_ricardo (~rickyrica@2601:240:4203:ecb0:5dbb:755c:97a0:a220) joined #forth 20:56:42 --- join: the_count (~weston@172-1-66-81.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 21:09:35 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 21:28:08 --- quit: the_count (Quit: leaving) 22:15:31 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 23:18:18 --- join: ASau` (~user@x2f7f7f3.dyn.telefonica.de) joined #forth 23:18:23 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 23:59:53 --- quit: ASau` (Remote host closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.10.31