00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.10.28 00:12:14 --- quit: mark4 (Quit: Leaving) 01:14:25 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 01:26:58 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 02:07:14 --- quit: regain (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 02:20:29 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 02:21:58 --- join: karswell (~user@124.209.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 02:22:06 --- quit: M-jimt (Remote host closed the connection) 02:36:45 --- join: M-jimt (jimtmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vkkovliaruidrgxl) joined #forth 03:01:05 --- join: proteusguy_satri (~proteusgu@180.183.115.205) joined #forth 03:04:44 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 04:44:54 --- join: regain (~moby@200-216-6-33.user.veloxzone.com.br) joined #forth 04:57:12 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 05:08:01 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 05:21:07 --- quit: dograt_ (*.net *.split) 05:21:07 --- quit: lucasaiu (*.net *.split) 05:31:39 --- join: lucasaiu (~user@fsf/member/lucasaiu) joined #forth 05:37:17 --- join: dograt (~dograt@unaffiliated/dograt) joined #forth 05:42:25 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:43:06 --- join: karswell` (~user@124.209.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 05:46:10 --- quit: regain (Quit: Leaving) 05:53:18 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 06:08:37 --- quit: M-jimt (Remote host closed the connection) 06:18:23 --- join: jimt[m] (jimtmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-msuzhkceyasvxqli) joined #forth 06:32:16 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@blk-212-79-74.eastlink.ca) joined #forth 07:00:31 --- quit: X-Scale (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07:01:49 --- join: X-Scale (~ARM@2001:0:53aa:64c:0:d51c:b176:2199) joined #forth 08:57:45 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 09:01:00 --- quit: pdewacht (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 09:03:15 nerfur: http.fth, httpd.fth, etc. inside: https://github.com/MitchBradley/openfirmware/tree/master/ofw/inet 09:05:10 I've found that openfirmware makes a very nice desktop forth as well: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Forth_Lesson_1#Getting_a_Forth_Interpreter 09:05:40 --- join: Mat4 (~claude@ip5b4107eb.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 09:05:47 very nice introspection words. 09:06:55 Also, the BIND word works like so... 09:07:43 : bind ' >body @ ' >body ! ; 09:08:05 hello pointfree 09:08:24 https://www.reddit.com/r/Forth/comments/4so1cc/gelforth_for_compiling_forth_to_the_psoc_5lps/d8q2bfv/?context=3 09:08:33 Hello, Mat4! 09:12:00 ...but is there a library for unix domain sockets in desktop openfirmware forth? Then I could port my remote, tethered swd/jtag cross-compiler to the desktop openfirmware. 09:13:41 I like being able to execute words out of the remote target image while I cross-compile a self-hosting system, cmForth style. 09:13:53 I'm not aware of any library wrapper for Open Firmware (which makes sense because of it firmware related intention) 09:14:40 Perhaps TCP or UDP sockets then? 09:15:55 Probably, I remember special dictionaries for network loading 09:18:16 This all depends on whether openocd supports udp_port or tcp_port, remote debugging. 09:19:50 I experimented with the Open Firmware version of my apple iMac G3 09:20:55 sadly the motherboard get smoked in between... 09:25:09 :( 09:31:57 Mat4: oh, I had one of those 09:32:01 at one point I had two 09:38:47 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 09:41:58 --- quit: cantstanya (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 09:42:32 --- quit: jimt[m] (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 09:46:20 gordonjcp: The only positive part of this computer I can mention in my opinion is the PowerPC processor 09:46:48 or is the PowerPC processor in my opinion? Anyhow ... 09:48:19 --- join: cantstanya (~chatting@unaffiliated/cantstanya) joined #forth 09:48:34 openocd ... -c "telnet_port pipe" | ./forth gel.4th 09:48:50 even better than unix domain sockets. 09:49:24 and I'm fairly sure ofw can read from stdin 09:51:45 i think so for a hosted version 09:53:40 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:a59a:2aab:2c74:1e88) joined #forth 10:03:12 does someone know how to change the word name stored by 'create' in an ANS conform way ? 10:03:59 I want to factor out some routines though writing a simple generator (as in Lisp) 10:06:32 --- join: neceve (~ncv@86.125.241.206) joined #forth 10:06:32 --- quit: neceve (Changing host) 10:06:32 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 12:15:31 --- log: started forth/16.10.28 12:15:31 --- join: clog (~nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 12:15:31 --- topic: 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN | http://projects.forthworks.com/standards/DPANS/ | www.greenarraychips.com' 12:15:31 --- topic: set by crc!sid2647@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-incoycbnpesmfspg on [Fri Nov 06 18:58:45 2015] 12:15:31 --- names: list (clog Zarutian M-jimt pdewacht djose proteusguy_satri neceve mnemnion cantstanya X-Scale nighty karswell` dograt lucasaiu ASau true-grue Keshl nerfur mykespb rpcope segher joneshf-laptop OriansJ systemsgotyou Quozl`_ John[Lisbeth] ggherdov`__ ovf pointfree malyn yunfan rprimus phadthai diginet2 djinni_ reepca eldre nighty-_ zy]x[yz DKordic newcup DGASAU jeremyheiler gordonjcp APic beretta +bluekelp carc eatonphil npr irsol crc taij33n Vendan _longines dzho) 12:15:31 --- names: list (fiddlerwoaroof) 12:21:50 --- join: Mat4 (~claude@ip5b4107eb.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 12:22:30 --- quit: mykespb (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 12:22:49 --- part: Mat4 left #forth 12:23:54 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12:34:18 --- join: mykespb (~myke@213.141.133.133) joined #forth 12:46:48 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@hlfxns016cw-142177221102.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.ns.bellaliant.net) joined #forth 13:14:39 --- join: Uniju (~frog_styl@cpe-74-78-4-232.mass.res.rr.com) joined #forth 13:46:12 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 14:02:36 --- join: dys (~dys@ip-109-44-3-61.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 14:12:16 --- join: the_count (~weston@172-1-66-81.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 14:26:25 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 14:32:38 --- quit: joneshf-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 14:36:04 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 14:58:19 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-64-237-236-9.prtc.net) joined #forth 15:14:13 --- quit: the_count (Quit: leaving) 15:33:03 say I wanted to define a word just as a prefix for writing numbers in another base, say "0x" for base 16, why doesn't this work? : 0x IMMEDIATE BASE @ HEX WORD NUMBER DROP ' LIT , , BASE ! ; 15:33:55 the idea being that, even when BASE is currently 10, I could write: : test 0x 10 . ; ( now "test" prints the number 16 ) 15:39:04 zy]x[yz: well, I just added a little bit of additional parsing in NUMBER? that checks if first two letters are 0x, 0o, 0q, or 0b for hex, octal, quadtral and binary respecively. But then again I am basing my Forth on eForth. 15:40:05 zy]x[yz: check if WORD does indeed capture the word both at in eval and compile mode? 15:40:14 yeah, I planned to do that when I get around to implementing my own but in the meantime, I just wanted to define common radix prefixes 15:40:30 --- quit: mykespb (Quit: Leaving) 15:46:53 Zarutian, yes, I believe it does 15:47:50 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@blk-212-79-74.eastlink.ca) joined #forth 15:47:55 IMMEDIATE marks the last defined word in the dictionary or the one under definition? 15:48:13 either one 15:48:37 oh 15:49:06 I think when it parses "NUMBER" it's overwriting the same buffer that was parsed by WORD 15:49:25 no wait, that shouldn't happen until later right? 15:50:41 zy]x[yz: That is not how `IMMEDIATE' works in GForth. 15:50:51 I'm not using gforth 15:51:05 NUMBER has the stack effect of ( buffer_start_address length -- number ) ? 15:51:49 no, ( address length -- number remaining_characters_not_parsed_as_numbers ) 15:52:28 the latter returned is that an address? 15:52:37 no, it's a count 15:53:04 length - nparsed 15:53:50 right, hence the DROP 15:54:43 first thing I would check is that 0x is indeed an IMMEDIATE word 15:55:31 then I would check that WORD is indeed capturing the next word when in compilation mode 15:55:57 weird, if I SEE test it prints ": test , ;" 15:57:04 are you using JonesForth? 15:57:29 try s/LIT/DOLIT/ or s/LIT/(LIT)/ 15:58:02 in 0x that is 15:58:08 I am using jonesforth, and I've implemented my own ' because jonesforth's builtin doesn't work in immediate mode 15:59:00 iirc there is a difference between LIT and DOLIT (or (LIT) ) 15:59:21 DOLIT and (LIT) aren't defined by jonesforth. what do those do? 16:00:27 take the next cell in the colon list of the word and pushes it onto the datastack 16:00:31 takes* 16:00:58 I thought that's what LIT does 16:01:54 what does SEE LIT print? 16:04:30 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:05:28 LIT's implemented in assembly: lodsl; push %eax; NEXT 16:07:17 lodsl is what operation in x86 again? 16:09:30 but it seems to do what (LIT) in other forths do. 16:10:10 hmm.. how did you implement ' ? 16:11:54 : ' WORD FIND >CFA ; 16:12:01 oh crap 16:12:05 that needs to be immediate 16:12:16 wait, no it doesn't 16:12:52 maybe it does, I don't know 16:13:00 this dual mode of operation is confusing to me 16:14:04 lets walk through : 0x IMMEDIATE BASE @ HEX WORD NUMBER DROP ' LIT , , BASE ! ; word for word, okay? 16:14:20 ok 16:14:58 mode is executing (or evaling) then : is encountered 16:15:53 : takes the next word which is 0x and uses that as the name being added to the dictionary. It also changes the mode to compiling 16:16:16 yes 16:16:32 IMMEDIATE marks the latest word in the dictionary (which is 0x) as IMMEDIATE word 16:17:04 Zarutian: lodsl is "load [ds:si] into eax" 16:17:13 (which basically means that when mode is compiling the word is executed never the less) 16:17:18 Zarutian: and si is used as the interpreter pointer 16:18:27 then BASE is encountered and a reference to it is compiled into the latest defined word 16:18:53 ditto for @ and HEX 16:19:31 same for WORD and NUMBER and DROP 16:19:44 but ' is diffrent, yes? 16:20:33 nope, and there lies the error tripping you zy]x[yz 16:21:22 you want ' to execute at this juncture (when the 0x word is being constructed) so it does need to be immediate 16:22:00 yup 16:22:03 gordonjcp: christ, never like non load store architectures precisley do the the addressing complexities like these. 16:22:35 Zarutian: segment registers are still a thing, too, even if the segments are 4GB long :-D 16:22:58 gordonjcp: on x86 and such maybe. 16:23:08 yup, on x86 and amd64 16:23:28 why do I want ' to be executed when 0x is compiled? I want the codeword for LIT to be appended to the word where 0x is used, not to 0x itself 16:23:34 tick there is going to put the address of the word "LIT" on the top of the stack 16:24:40 which comma will then take and append to whatever word 0x is executing in the construction of 16:25:42 yeah, so don't I want ' to be compiled into 0x and for 0x to be immediate? 16:25:58 oh 16:26:04 I get it 16:26:28 hm, I see what you're getting at though 16:26:30 gordonjcp: the whole segmentation system on x86 feels like somebody heard about Boroughs 5000 addressing but didnt fully understand it. 16:26:38 yeah I don't want ' looking for the next word where 0x is used, I want it to look for LIT 16:27:04 zy]x[yz: yup 16:27:43 sorry for the slow replies my cat has something stuck to her and is freaking out, and as funny as it is I'm trying to help her whenever she comes out of hiding 16:29:33 haha 16:29:51 my cat keeps diving outside, howling at something, and diving back in and hiding under the bench 16:30:46 I had to get a cat down from a lamppost. I am still wondering how the hell it got up there in the first place. 16:31:08 I am talking about those metalic lampost and not the old wodden ones. 16:31:52 Zarutian: quadcoper misadventure 16:31:57 *quadcopter 16:32:13 my hippothesis that it hug shimmed itself up there but could go back down because it couldnt see 16:32:35 my cat can get into the back of the Range Rover but not out 16:32:52 somehow she can jump up onto the back bumper and over the tailgate from the outsde 16:33:08 but can't work out how to jump over the tailgate from the inside 16:33:08 I have seen my brothers cat climb up an gutter pipe that way. 16:33:45 I'm glad she doesn't really climb things, she'd end up on top of the aerial mast or some damn thing 16:34:15 ah-ha, ['] is what I wanted instead of ' 16:34:26 it works. thanks guys 16:36:10 a colleague of my friend (which is an radio electronics guy) found cat shit way up an aerial mast. And that wasnt a low one eather. 16:37:39 aha 16:37:42 solved it 16:37:54 there is a fox outside, that keeps trying to come into the garden 16:38:34 they were so puzzled by it that they put up an motion triggered webcam, turned out that a cat in the neighbourhood used the arial mast as a regular perch to survey the land. 16:39:13 Zarutian: can't say I'm surprised, I've seen the little semi-feral barn cats down at the farm up on the telephone poles 16:39:30 sitting on the "pegs" that engineers would stand on 16:41:02 this cat prompted an question regarding the safety protocols for climbing the mast and doing mantenance on stuff on it. 16:42:01 one of the rules is that only two may occupy the mast at any given time 16:42:46 ... so does the cat count as one of the two? 16:42:50 the question was "does it apply to any cats up there" and the answer "yup" 16:43:02 Zarutian: more importantly can you train the cat to draw cables up the tower? 16:43:59 gordonjcp: dunno about cats but I heard that minks have been used to lay down the first string for cable pulling in cable ducts 16:44:17 enclosed cable ducts that is 16:44:23 Zarutian: rats too 16:44:51 there was a cracking article a good few years ago about someone who trained her pet rat to pull a draw cord through walls, that she could then tie off cat5 to and pull it through 16:46:26 no cable pipes used in UK? 16:47:32 there are, this was in the US 16:47:46 although it would work pretty well for drawing cables over trays 16:50:20 I am wondering if you could train the rat to take direction through radio. 'go left, go right' kind 16:52:56 heck some parts of sewer equipment are one way passers to prevent rats swimming up and then scrambling out of your toilet 16:53:39 --- quit: systemsgotyou (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:54:22 --- join: systemsgotyou (~User@71.91.8.13) joined #forth 16:56:00 back to the cat in the mast: so it was decided that if the cat was in the mast when mantenance workers showed up then it would be tempted to get down by a treat or tasty morsel 17:01:01 --- nick: karswell` -> karswell 17:07:22 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:07:58 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:a59a:2aab:2c74:1e88) joined #forth 17:54:57 --- quit: systemsgotyou (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:56:43 --- join: systemsgotyou (~User@71.91.8.13) joined #forth 18:00:30 he he he he he 18:00:35 he he he he 18:00:42 he he 18:00:43 he he he 18:03:38 what'cha cackling about? 18:04:36 400 20 + . 18:26:57 --- join: the_count (~weston@172-1-66-81.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 18:35:26 Would something like this work for a Forth? http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NXP/LPC1114FN28-10212/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduhfm%2fa8WR0pJPGMI7Jv0tpkPbZ0615KLGo%3d 18:58:51 Anyone around at this hour? 18:59:23 Yes. 18:59:47 yes 19:01:20 Did any of you check out that NXP chip? 19:01:36 Of course. Why specificaly that one? 19:02:10 It is in a DIP package, about the only one of it's caliber 19:02:18 anything special about it? 19:02:30 Not that I can tell 19:03:08 the_count: you have something against SMD packages? specially those on breakout boards that fit the DIP footprint? 19:03:24 Just that it would be nice to put in a breadboard is the only reason 19:03:47 I don't have anything against SMD 19:04:22 --- quit: djose (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 19:04:47 * Zarutian wished that more manifactures offered such populated breakout boards 19:04:50 I am not a low leveler I am a high leveler so I can't really relate 19:05:13 I cannot really relate because I am completely new to this. 19:05:33 Zarutian: ? 19:06:37 completely new to computers in general? 19:07:02 hmm... looked at sites such as hackaday.com? bunnies studios, dangerous prototypes, embeddedrelated.com, FabLab academy? 19:07:29 allaboutcircuits.com? 19:07:43 John[Lisbeth]: No, not by far, just new to Forth / Assembly, etc... So I don't really know what I am doing. 19:08:25 Zarutian: Are you pointing out things which fit on breadboards? 19:08:56 Or just wishful thinking? 19:08:58 the_count: I am pointing out resources relating to electronics 19:10:22 the_count: https://developer.mbed.org/platforms/ 19:10:30 For example. 19:12:43 This one does have the chip which I was looking at: https://developer.mbed.org/platforms/LPC1114FN28/ 19:14:04 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 19:15:30 the_count: Why that one? 19:16:23 I can stick it in a breadboard, I really like working with things like that. maybe it is just the cool factor though. 19:18:07 Like, take the chip out and put it on there by itself. 19:20:28 Or, is that stupid? 19:21:29 out of the package? 19:21:45 Just the chip 19:21:50 you got a wire-chip bonding machine? 19:22:42 I'm not sure what that is 19:22:42 the chip is what is inside the package. The package is DIP or one of the SMD form factors. 19:23:02 Oh.. Just the DIP package 19:23:17 I misunderstood the question 19:23:41 I was just nit picking about terminology 19:23:55 * the_count smiles 19:25:35 You can also stick https://developer.mbed.org/platforms/ST-Nucleo-L432KC/ on a breadboard. Unlike DIP it also has a quartz crystal, voltage regulator (and capacitor) and USB connector. 19:25:36 because there are such things as multi chip packages 19:27:00 I know what you mean 19:28:11 Would an FTDI cable work with something like what I was looking at? 19:30:21 I have to go, I'll be back later 19:30:23 --- quit: the_count (Quit: leaving) 19:40:00 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 19:40:38 --- join: karswell` (~user@124.209.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 19:40:54 --- join: ball (ball@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 19:48:51 FTDI are fakes, use something with a propper CDC chip 19:49:29 --- join: djose (~moby@200-216-6-33.user.veloxzone.com.br) joined #forth 19:49:53 --- nick: djose -> Guest2827 19:54:49 he's no longer on the channel unfortunately 19:55:17 I will point him to logs. 19:55:30 thanks 19:55:31 and I say this as a witness to one of my fellow electronics technician that ordered an FTDI chip and got paper work prooving its origin and the chain of custody but still got a fake. 19:59:54 How do You know it is fake? 20:17:07 possibly, it got bricked by one of FTDI's driver updates 20:25:53 --- quit: nal (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 20:29:35 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 20:54:08 --- join: ricky_ricardo (~rickyrica@2601:240:4203:ecb0:754f:61d5:b100:1e84) joined #forth 20:58:45 --- quit: ricky_ricardo (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 21:10:14 Huh, is IMMEDIATE immediate? It isn't in GForth. Is it specified in the ANS standard? I'm wondering because it seems like that could cause problems with zy]x[yz's 0x word in compile mode. It would also have some weird side-effects, making random words immediate and whatnot... 21:11:45 * reepca sleeps now 21:14:33 * ball collapses over his keyboard. 21:40:25 --- quit: ball (Quit: leaving) 22:44:04 he he he 22:44:04 he he 22:44:05 he 22:44:53 : he ." he " ; : hes 0 do he loop ; cr 3 hes cr 2 hes cr 1 he cr 22:49:30 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 23:45:08 --- nick: Guest2827 -> djose 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.10.28