00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.10.27 00:16:15 --- quit: regain (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 00:26:00 mark4: yeah, I heard that 6502 asm was very simple and good for beginners 00:30:09 also z80 00:30:27 they also are so limiting that forth is among the few decent choices :) 00:35:05 ohhh, this modern internetz, you started with asm, evolved into gay marriages and god and back to some "radio" and citroens... I also hope that I will hear again about some krivine or : stars ... ; :-D 00:47:20 yep, here it comes) ok, too much backlog, time to scroll down ) 00:48:50 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 00:52:50 and I still laugh as crazy when I see cover of this atari forth book ) 00:52:53 so 80s 01:11:40 nerfur: link? 01:12:16 http://www.atarimania.com/documents/FORTH-on-the-Atari-Learning-by-Using.pdf 01:12:52 hahaha 01:12:57 what the fuck 01:13:39 was it originally titles Forth Applications in Glam Rock? 01:13:46 ahaha 01:14:07 wasn't it common fashion in 80s? :-D 01:14:19 original text by Zardoz 01:14:26 not at these latitudes, you'd catch your death 01:17:43 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdBBILrsYgw (somewhat related) 01:18:03 or in french: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTx6-idHCVU 01:18:23 btw, I heard many anecdotes/jokes about stereotypical scottish greediness, is it real stereotype? Or I just was talking with some angry british? ) 01:18:26 http://www.amicue.org/Pictures/DSCN5945.jpg :))) 01:19:01 nerfur: it's not particularly true 01:19:08 I know similar stereotypes about Paris, Toronto... 01:19:36 nerfur: I think a comparison between how Scotland and England treat refugees is probably going to be quite instructive there 01:20:18 hell 01:20:33 we're so generous we pay on average two grand a year more than our fair share of taxes 01:20:57 amiga rocks 01:21:08 because obviously London needs the money from the rest of the country to build a new railway from one part of town to another 01:21:50 same shit everywhere 01:22:06 nerfur: well you could move to au/nz 01:22:37 yunfan: why? 01:22:46 you guys were lucky that there are so many lands you could escape to 01:23:20 nerfur: just assume you live in eu 01:23:35 i might wrong on that 01:23:36 I'm in russia ) 01:23:47 aha, fight mode 01:23:59 and i'm in china :[ 01:24:03 nerfur: ah, so you know the stereotype about Russians drinking a lot? 01:24:11 nerfur: and that's not particularly true? 01:24:21 sure and "we drink with bears together" ) 01:24:47 I remember reading that a single drop of non-boiled water in russian tea ruins it :) 01:24:53 nerfur: i recently watched that tv seris "how to become a rassian" 01:24:57 which was very funny 01:26:13 hm, don't know about this series 01:26:18 yunfan: mainland? 01:27:00 nerfur: maybe you send the ones that can't drink to Scotland, or something, I don't know 01:27:39 bears or man?:-D 01:29:08 Historically many Russian programmers were involved in Forth. Even here on the channel you may find a few lurking Russians (I've counted three of them) :) 01:29:35 speaking of Russia, I've seen the 1972 Solaris (Солярис) movie today 01:29:36 I know) there are also pretty big forum and "russian" forth 01:30:34 nerfur: were there any "specifically Russian" programming languages? 01:30:45 like, a language or technique that you've not really seen anywhere else? 01:31:58 phadthai, So, don't you think that it was a (bit) slow-moving? 01:32:22 gordonjcp, Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refal 01:32:24 1C :-D russian scripting language from biggest accounting system :-D but it is pure evil))) also there were/are niche like space/military/embed languages, I think) 01:32:40 oh, yeah Refal! 01:32:48 and Drakon (Dragon) 01:33:20 true-grue: that's true, it's not uncommon for old sci-fi also... on the other hand that particular pace has a special meditative feeling I find 01:34:31 phadthai, Yes, I especially like the scene at the library. 01:35:39 nerfur: of course, shanghai 01:37:24 yunfan, Have you heard about "wuxia" genre? It seems that the whole world started to read chinese fantasy books :) 01:38:44 true-grue: of course, wuxia note was very popular in china mainland , especially at my parent's day 01:38:53 and in my early time 01:39:12 its just like those middle earth story in western world 01:39:21 true-grue: as I understand it is "japanese inspired" with all their Monster Hunter/Dynasty Warriors games and "otakus" everywhere 01:39:33 true-grue: but the problem was none new authors now join in 01:40:33 maybe we should one day try to train an ai to do that 01:40:49 to write wuxia? 01:41:15 yes 01:42:51 I love btw mo lei tau movies from 90s 01:43:17 with Chow and Ng Man-tat 01:43:30 they was so naïve and "pure" ) 01:43:34 well prefer reading than watching on such imagine oriented story 01:43:49 especially for scifi 01:44:03 yeah, I love books 01:44:14 but for space opera type, i am very desired to look those images :D 01:48:29 Ah, the good-old space opera. "Star Kings" by Hamilton! One of the best book from my childhood :) 01:50:14 well i prefer a fire on the deep 01:50:23 "a fire on the deep" 01:50:48 sorry its a fire upon the deep 01:52:15 Well, Vinge is a hardcode sci-fi, of course :) 01:52:51 yes 01:53:15 any newer one recommend? 01:54:30 I loved one sci-fi series of novels/books, I can't recall it names and author 01:55:04 guy from our world was like body swapped with some sort of noble from far far planet 01:55:21 because this noble travels world like space tourist this way 01:55:51 but while he was body swapped war in this distant space world was started 01:58:09 yunfan, Sadly, I can't. I've read a lot of western sci-fi books. But they are belong to classical period. And for me is much easier to reread Zelazny, Lem, Bradberry than to search for something both modern and interesting enough in this genre. 01:59:07 --- quit: pdewacht (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 01:59:13 --- join: pdewacht (~repent@kulon.2k38.be) joined #forth 02:02:03 true-grue: well, if on other genre, i think that's not a problem, but for scifi, time matters 02:03:09 true-grue: for eg, when i was young, those novels describing laser guns could satisfy me, but now, they became real, so those novels just lost their attraction to me 02:03:16 other issues was same 02:07:00 yunfan, Well, let's take The Time Machine by Wells, for example. Is is so outdated? In fact, this book is not about particular tech. gadget (the time machine itself), but about the society and its future. And Wells still absolutely modern here. 02:11:20 --- quit: segher (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 02:15:33 true-grue: one thing i have learnt from carl marx is society running also depend on tech, and never affirm an truth 02:31:58 --- join: joneshf-laptop (~joneshf@73.220.86.28) joined #forth 02:40:40 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 02:48:08 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 02:57:02 --- join: nighty (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 02:57:14 --- quit: nighty (Remote host closed the connection) 03:04:18 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 03:37:50 --- join: segher (segher@bombadil.infradead.org) joined #forth 03:47:49 --- quit: mark4 (Quit: Leaving) 04:04:50 --- quit: ASau (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1)) 04:13:13 --- join: nighty (~nighty@220.157.229.123) joined #forth 04:44:06 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@14.207.9.220) joined #forth 04:44:06 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 04:51:20 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 05:43:36 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@202.183.208.75) joined #forth 05:43:36 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 05:48:46 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@blk-212-79-74.eastlink.ca) joined #forth 06:06:23 mark4: to clarify somewhat, tom novelli (tcn) wrote the original 4 versions of retro, before I took over. Retro 10, 11, and 12 are complete rewrites that have a significantly different implementation approach to tcn's models. 06:31:48 --- join: regain (~moby@200-216-6-33.user.veloxzone.com.br) joined #forth 06:35:54 --- join: karswell` (~user@124.209.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 07:07:12 --- quit: karswell` (Remote host closed the connection) 07:08:07 --- join: karswell` (~user@124.209.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 07:15:00 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 07:27:08 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 07:55:05 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 07:57:49 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-64-237-239-9.prtc.net) joined #forth 08:03:46 --- nick: karswell` -> karswell 08:05:50 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 08:05:56 --- join: ASau` (~user@89.204.138.247) joined #forth 08:49:35 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08:50:14 --- join: ASau` (~user@89.204.130.95) joined #forth 08:56:02 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 08:57:19 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 08:58:40 --- join: karswell (~user@124.209.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 09:09:07 --- join: mark4 (~mark4@99-164-75-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 09:15:29 --- quit: ASau` (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 09:21:05 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 09:37:49 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@14.207.9.220) joined #forth 09:37:49 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 09:48:05 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 09:48:23 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 09:52:15 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 09:58:25 --- join: [X-Scale] (~ARM@2001:0:53aa:64c:0:d51c:b176:2199) joined #forth 09:59:21 --- quit: X-Scale (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:59:28 --- nick: [X-Scale] -> X-Scale 10:16:56 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 10:19:14 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 10:33:41 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:7083:82d1:3db2:2e3d) joined #forth 10:43:37 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 10:44:25 --- quit: Zarutian (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:44:26 --- quit: ASau (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1)) 10:44:41 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 10:53:03 --- quit: nal (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 11:19:54 hmm 11:20:02 these blackout blinds are the shit 11:20:13 from the outside it looks like I'm not in and there are no lights on in the house 11:21:39 I guess that's why someone's at my front door, trying to break in 11:22:56 okay, they've had their fun, time for the outside floods 11:34:17 amateur, when I was a driver for the local parcel delivery service you were supposed to listen through the mailslot to determine if someone was home (that is if the lights were out). It can result in your ear being licked by the dog of the home though. 11:34:44 hahaha 11:34:57 it would appear they've tried their luck at the next house 11:35:05 which is the one that belongs to the farmer's son 11:35:33 he's got a very barky and bitey labrador bitch, and he's about 6'6" in every direction 11:36:02 and that would be the police helicopter, so they've probably run down to the river 11:36:08 which won't be fun in this weather 11:36:57 gordonjcp: the stupidity of some people 11:38:39 Zarutian: the best bit is, I've a pretty good idea who it is 11:39:05 gordonjcp: a local wannabe yobber? 11:42:01 yeah 11:43:41 funny how you know what exactly I mean by that, isnt it? 11:45:58 there's this guy, lives in the housing estate on the other side of the canal a couple of km away 11:47:31 go on, sounds like the description is not even half done 11:53:50 sorry, phone, I'm on call this evening 11:54:11 anyway yeah, as you say, "wannabe yobber" 11:55:07 doesn't appear to understand that turning over the local post office the day after pension day won't get him much money but will mean that the shopkeeper who has known him since he was a tiny child will recognise him instantly even with the hood of his jacket up 11:55:37 gets arrested, gets six months, gets out, couple of months later does the same thing again 12:04:30 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 12:06:25 --- quit: mykespb (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 12:18:35 --- quit: dys (Remote host closed the connection) 12:20:46 --- join: dys (~dys@x4d02bce6.dyn.telefonica.de) joined #forth 12:24:34 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@24.222.87.130) joined #forth 13:01:18 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 13:11:00 --- join: Mat4 (~claude@ip5b4107eb.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 13:11:35 --- quit: regain (Quit: Leaving) 13:21:15 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@blk-212-79-74.eastlink.ca) joined #forth 13:49:58 --- part: Mat4 left #forth 14:18:49 difference between a jump table and a call table? I would think that execution then resumes after the call table construct when the indirectly called word exits. (Which word is selected by the index that is TOS when the call table construct was encountered in execution) 14:40:12 Zarutian: differnce in what context? 14:40:23 depending on the CPU architecture, a call table might be more efficient 14:41:06 that's a tad counterintuitive - wait what, it's got to hit RAM twice for the stack, and a couple of register accesses for the stack pointer - but some architectures optimise the shit out of that 14:41:17 gordonjcp: in what happens after. With jump tables the flow of execution just continues at what ever place jumped to with absolutly no gurantees that it ever returns. 14:41:41 well the last jump in your word is going to be to NEXT, isn't it? 14:42:18 and if you think of NEXT as a special class of return instruction 14:42:25 heh, if you are keeping your stacks in the same RAM as your program then you are causing more pressure in the cpu<->memory bottleneck 14:47:03 gordonjcp: your are assuming machine instruction calls to code words? Well, I have maybe been too much down in dual stack machine architecture lately. I meant in the way of Forth VM level calls and branches. 14:51:21 why does this segfault in jonesforth? should this work: ": write-header [ ' LITSTRING , 8 , 1234 , 5678 , ] write SWAP DROP ;" <-- using the tick in immediate mode seems to be the cause 14:51:23 oh, okay, I thought you meant in the way the words assemble 14:52:34 zy]x[yz: I have half an idea that in jonesforth tick is somehow a bit of a cheat 14:54:34 oh yeah, I read that comment like two days ago and forgot about it. thanks 14:55:07 might be a good exercise to see if I can implement a non-cheating version 14:57:33 well, turns out that wasn't that much of an exercise... : ' IMMEDIATE WORD FIND >CFA ; 14:57:35 it's a Neat Hack though 14:57:52 doesn't WORD look for a delimiter? 14:58:25 if by delimiter you mean any whitespace, then yes. isn't that what it should do? 14:58:42 sorry, unclear 14:58:53 doesn't WORD look for a value for a delimiter on the top of the stack 14:59:02 oh, not in jonesforth 14:59:03 but it looks like jonesforth WORD doesn't 15:15:27 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:19:19 --- quit: rgrinberg (Remote host closed the connection) 15:21:03 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 15:21:44 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@blk-212-79-74.eastlink.ca) joined #forth 15:35:00 --- quit: nerfur (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 15:36:03 --- join: nerfur (~nerfur@mail.freeside.ru) joined #forth 15:51:24 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 16:37:46 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@blk-212-79-74.eastlink.ca) joined #forth 16:45:10 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 16:51:21 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 16:56:00 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-64-237-239-9.prtc.net) joined #forth 17:23:35 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:41:12 --- join: karswell (~user@124.209.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 17:51:16 --- join: nighty (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 18:06:49 --- join: neceve (~ncv@86.125.241.206) joined #forth 18:06:49 --- quit: neceve (Changing host) 18:06:49 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 18:35:36 --- join: ball (ball@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 18:35:43 There's a Forth channel! 18:47:32 of course :) hello, ball 18:47:54 hello phadthai! :-) 18:48:50 Is Forth still used in control applications? 18:52:14 Is Forth still used? 18:53:15 I've been using it for nearly a week now to learn forth, so yes it is still used. by me. for about a week, for the purpose of learning forth. 18:54:05 Oh good. 18:54:17 Which Forth are you using? 18:57:23 i think i've seen you before ball 18:58:19 are you the same ball that's on #netbsd? 18:58:22 oh you are! 18:58:24 hey ball! 18:58:38 * ball nods 18:58:40 hello nal! 18:59:58 and here i thought netbsd folks disliked forth because asau is here 19:00:17 I didn't notice ASau 19:00:35 Hopefully he won't be offended by that. 19:01:17 yeah, he comes here and basically shits/rants on forth, everyone gets angry and talks about kicking him, and then nobody does 19:02:06 zy is probably using gforth 19:02:16 everyone is using gforth unfortunately 19:03:00 or maybe he was learning jonesforth, another person was asking about it 19:03:16 --- nick: nal -> Kumool 19:04:35 I hope JonesForth is Welsh. 19:05:02 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@blk-212-79-74.eastlink.ca) joined #forth 19:06:26 --- nick: Kumool -> nal 19:08:40 ball, I'm using jonesforth 19:08:42 oh? what makes you say that? 19:08:57 Jones is a very common Welsh surname. 19:09:51 --- quit: rpcope (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 19:09:57 --- join: the_count (~weston@172-1-66-81.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 19:11:21 you're welsh? 19:11:43 quincy jones isnt welsh i think 19:11:46 No. I did live there for years though. 19:12:21 mark4: I found this, it isn't thumb2, but it seems to be a very good source on ASM: http://arantxa.ii.uam.es/~gdrivera/sed/docs/ARMBook.pdf 19:13:11 thumb2 as in ARM? 19:13:24 Oh, the clue's in the URL 19:13:35 :D 19:14:01 I read about Thumb in the ARM system architecture book though, I think. 19:15:03 IRC is switching hosts on me... 19:15:44 --- part: the_count left #forth 19:15:53 --- join: the_count (~weston@172-1-66-81.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 19:23:36 ball: I just discovered the Forth channel as well 19:28:37 --- join: rpcope (~rpcope@162.245.217.4) joined #forth 19:31:57 * ball nods 19:33:22 any reason why jonesforth stop host at the origin site? 19:39:03 I din't know there was any different site than GitHub 19:41:39 you go to forth.org and look at teh compiler section and see all teh 404's 19:49:00 --- quit: ball (Quit: leaving) 19:54:26 --- quit: the_count (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 19:56:30 --- join: the_count (~weston@172-1-66-81.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 20:27:53 --- quit: the_count (Quit: leaving) 20:30:43 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 20:38:00 --- join: mykespb (~myke@213.141.133.133) joined #forth 20:51:58 --- join: regain (~moby@200-216-6-33.user.veloxzone.com.br) joined #forth 21:02:46 i did not look at that pdf in depth but yes that is a good source for information on arm programming 21:02:53 all you have to do is read it... ALL :) 21:03:09 just got back from work and wont be active in here 21:34:01 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 21:38:16 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 21:47:00 --- quit: Keshl (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 21:48:37 --- quit: nal (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 21:50:32 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 21:54:05 --- join: the_count (~weston@172-1-66-81.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 21:57:58 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 22:00:20 --- quit: the_count (Remote host closed the connection) 22:16:19 --- quit: nerfur (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22:23:59 --- join: dys (~dys@x5f71d5f1.dyn.telefonica.de) joined #forth 22:28:24 --- join: nerfur (~nerfur@mail.freeside.ru) joined #forth 22:39:23 00:02 all you have to do is read it... ALL :) 22:39:36 and practice several months at least :) 23:10:00 --- join: Keshl (~Purple@24.115.181.94.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 23:38:21 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.10.27