00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.10.07 00:04:43 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 00:09:33 --- join: proteusguy_satri (~proteusgu@183.88.38.108) joined #forth 00:13:11 --- join: neceve (~neceve@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 00:13:28 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 00:51:40 --- quit: nal (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 01:09:12 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:3532:1095:72cf:ec20) joined #forth 01:13:29 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 01:54:13 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 01:55:14 --- quit: M-jimt (Write error: Connection reset by peer) 02:08:07 --- join: M-jimt (jimtmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ryoburxdjxdnypmw) joined #forth 03:31:35 these are the kind of graphics we need to bring back: http://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/56962433 03:31:49 oops meant this: http://i.4cdn.org/g/1475834932428.jpg 03:35:19 look at these really great graphics: http://i.4cdn.org/g/1475836423853.jpg 03:39:31 this is really good shit: http://i.stack.imgur.com/rURNG.jpg 03:41:00 https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c4/a4/0c/c4a40c1f09834a1d9d601940615fb3d4.jpg 04:09:44 what do you mean under bring back? It exists, just use it 04:26:02 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 04:39:19 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f9a8:8ae0:dfb6:8578) joined #forth 04:43:43 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 05:02:05 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 06:29:13 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Leaving) 06:31:03 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@24-246-56-85.cable.teksavvy.com) joined #forth 06:42:08 --- quit: eldre (*.net *.split) 06:42:56 --- join: eldre (~eldre@blip.afturgurluk.net) joined #forth 06:51:27 --- quit: M-jimt (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 06:57:03 --- join: M-jimt (jimtmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zqplnnhdnxfcktjy) joined #forth 07:22:53 --- log: started forth/16.10.07 07:22:53 --- join: clog (~nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 07:22:53 --- topic: 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN | http://projects.forthworks.com/standards/DPANS/ | www.greenarraychips.com' 07:22:53 --- topic: set by 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Have a nice day.) 17:57:59 --- nick: Guest82473 -> rprimus 18:04:36 --- quit: clog_ (^C) 18:04:36 --- log: stopped forth/16.10.07 18:04:55 --- log: started forth/16.10.07 18:04:55 --- join: clog (~nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 18:04:55 --- topic: 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN | http://projects.forthworks.com/standards/DPANS/ | www.greenarraychips.com' 18:04:55 --- topic: set by crc!sid2647@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-incoycbnpesmfspg on [Fri Nov 06 18:58:45 2015] 18:04:55 --- names: list (clog mnemnion nal ggherdov`__ rpcope APic impomatic fiddlerwoaroof systemsgotyou backer_ rprimus djinni Quozl` bluekelp npr reepca segher_ +proteusguy pointfree eldre rgrinberg irsol octo_ karswell nighty crc eatonphil Keshl John[Lisbeth] zy]x[yz taij33n Vendan pdewacht _longines cantstanya carc Zarutian jeremyheiler diginet2 phadthai yunfan ovf hexagon5un OriansJ` beretta dograt nerfur dzho ASau DGASAU CORDIC nighty- M-jimt) 18:52:56 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 19:17:56 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 19:34:04 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@183.88.38.108) joined #forth 19:34:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 20:05:07 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 20:09:16 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:4562:7a47:3d7b:1c63) joined #forth 20:15:09 meh 20:15:21 apparently dc in busybox does not have alot of the functionality that dc in other shells do 20:15:31 this is a setback for me because dc is not quite the standard environment that I thought it was 20:16:37 portability is an issue I guess 20:16:45 if you want to get things working on other people's computers 20:23:17 maybe I should just put a forth in awk 20:23:39 and then it'll run wherever I want 20:24:32 I've been finding it difficult to get loops figured out, I mean I understand how they work and stuff, but I have trouble managing the stack. There's this cyclic refilling to worry about and then you have to worry about getting rid of excess values left lying around after the loop finishes... 20:27:33 loops are just for repeating a set of words until a condition is met 20:27:50 I know. 20:28:32 loops are good in certain situations 20:28:46 like they are very good for creating finite state machines when you combine them with switches 20:30:04 I am not asking for information about when I should use loops, I know when I should use loops. I am just having trouble handling the data stack with them. 20:30:41 is something going wrong with your stack? 20:32:23 It's just taking a lot of conscious effort to reason about when and how the stack should be manipulated to achieve the desired result. 20:33:02 well what I would advise is get your desired result down in concrete words and then start manipulating the stack by hand to do this 20:33:11 and as you manipulate the stack by hand you'll see a pattern in what you do 20:33:22 then you write a word that follows that pattern 20:36:17 reepca: have you been here before? i'm sure whatever i'd suggest you've done already 20:46:23 nal: yeah, I've been here awhile. 20:46:48 I feel like it's something that would just come with experience, but it's a rough road 20:47:34 I try writing a fibonacci loop and it doesn't work very well, it seems like with stack-based parameter passing there's always an edge case to every loop 21:00:38 --- quit: dograt (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 21:01:40 try writing fibonacci with function composition 21:02:03 what forth are you using? 21:02:04 --- join: dograt (~dograt@unaffiliated/dograt) joined #forth 21:02:11 gforth 21:02:35 ok show me what you're doing 21:03:44 : fib >r 1 0 0 begin dup r@ < while >r over + dup 21:03:45 swap r> 1+ repeat drop + dup r> drop ; that's what I came up with 21:05:11 well 21:05:30 Considering we can produce fibbionacci by adding the last two things 21:05:40 I can sort of start typing like this: 21:06:15 First I need a word that takes the last two things on the stack and duplicates them 21:06:24 I don't know what that would be so I'll call it last-two-dup 21:06:40 1 1 last-two-dup .s would produce 1 1 1 1 21:06:54 and then I can + 21:07:20 1 1 last-two-dup + .s produces 1 1 2 21:07:52 so then we can 1 1 last-two-dup + last-two-dup + last-two-dup + last-two-dup + and so on 21:08:10 and we can just slowly fill our stack with fibbionacci this way 21:08:26 but that would steadily keep using more stack space, I want to only store the current iteration information 21:08:59 we can change our thing slightly 21:09:24 by writing it so that it does not retain a new number every time 21:09:47 I suppose I can start manually 21:09:52 1 1 2 3 5 8 21:10:15 so I need to start with 1 1 and then + and I get 2, but then I don't have two things to add 21:10:43 so I can try 1 1 dup + and then I get 1 2 21:11:31 There's a trick to it I just don't have my dups and my rots and all those memorized 21:11:58 similar to the trick I did before wehre you can just repeat the same words over and over again 21:13:55 I can go through my old program in my head 1 1 last-two-dup + produces 1 1 2 21:14:08 so then I can do a rot and then whatever snuffs it out 21:14:14 why is your entire thought process here? 21:14:31 Just helps me work it out easier I guess 21:14:40 Because I said I was having problems with my process 21:14:49 I would assume he's trying to demonstrate 21:15:07 problem is I don't have my stack manipulation words memorized 21:15:15 alright 21:15:22 I need like a word cheat sheet 21:16:03 http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Docs-html/Data-stack.html#Data-stack 21:18:02 I think I just need two tucks 21:18:09 1 1 tuck tuck + 1 1 tuck tuck + 21:20:16 1 1 swap over + swap over + swap over + 21:21:11 I think that does it, but then there's also the current iteration and the max iteration to manage on the stack 21:22:04 I feel like there's more stack manipulation words my cheat sheet is not tellign me about 21:22:12 but basically you gotta pop the third item on the stack 21:22:13 --- quit: Quozl` (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 21:22:29 --- join: Quozl` (~quozl@download.laptop.org) joined #forth 21:22:31 "pop" here meaning get it to the top? 21:22:37 or meaning move it to the return stack? 21:22:44 If you can get it to the top sure but then you just gotta delete it 21:23:04 I am trying to figure out how to do this withoutusing rot 21:23:22 --- quit: nal (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 21:23:53 it can be done using over and swap or a single tuck 21:24:21 1 1 tuck + tuck + tuck + tuck + 21:25:09 I suppose that works 21:26:09 but when you add on 2 more values to juggle it really complicates things, and as far as I can see you basically have to start using the return stack 21:26:32 The way I see it you've got to just drop the third value each time 21:26:41 you only need two pieces of data for the + 21:27:09 the third one gets added every time in my version and in my version I would use a word that perhaps brings it to the top of the stack then pops it 21:28:00 it's still 4 values that need to be on the stack at all times: current, previous, iteration count, max iterations 21:28:53 I don't see why you need an iteration count 21:29:10 so that you know how far you are 21:29:22 I suppose 21:31:05 the rosettacode example uses a ?do ... loop construct, but I've been trying to figure out how to avoid using those (apparently chuck moore doesn't like them? I'd like to at least consider why that is) 21:31:15 in my version I basically end up just replicating what it does manually though 21:31:18 I wouldn't use loops for recursion 21:31:30 unless you can create a program where you iterate over the same words over and over 21:32:14 --- quit: fiddlerwoaroof (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 21:34:51 I should read more of thinking forth... 21:35:04 do you have any experience with lisp? 21:35:48 a fair bit 21:36:12 doing things in forth isn't so drastically different from doing them in lisp 21:40:20 --- join: fiddlerwoaroof (~fiddlerwo@unaffiliated/fiddlerwoaroof) joined #forth 21:45:39 --- quit: fiddlerwoaroof (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:53:36 --- join: fiddlerwoaroof (~fiddlerwo@unaffiliated/fiddlerwoaroof) joined #forth 22:08:42 --- quit: fiddlerwoaroof (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22:19:20 --- join: fiddlerwoaroof (~fiddlerwo@unaffiliated/fiddlerwoaroof) joined #forth 22:52:57 --- join: X-Scale (~ARM@2001:0:53aa:64c:0:9d4f:b176:3a49) joined #forth 23:59:45 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.10.07