00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.10.03 00:10:35 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 01:15:49 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 02:09:18 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p57A2FB7D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 02:10:34 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 02:11:08 Man you got some pretty smart people in this channel and in the #concatenative channel who know the power of rpn 02:11:34 Certain other programmers may yet be convinced of the ability of forth such as lisp programmers. 02:14:07 It's not quite as easy as lisp to understand because of the stack. 02:14:39 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:b0ee:6b31:c1cc:c296) joined #forth 02:17:39 You can just embed forths ontop of things 02:17:43 including other forths 02:17:57 And so you have this system that naturally grows 02:18:43 But things in the system become interlinked and sometimes inseparable without etreme detriment to utility of the system. 02:19:35 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 02:22:38 When you learn the way that forth works you can just start spinning up a forth wheverever you are and just start scripting things together 02:22:46 to me forth is like the ultimate scripting language and shell 02:23:22 did you start to use it? 02:23:50 you mean forth? 02:25:05 yeah 02:26:21 No I still need to process it in my mind for a bit before I pursue it more 02:26:35 It's the first system I can learn all the way through really easily 02:27:47 I think you do it wrong, I hope you at least launch it and tried to make some hello worlds 02:29:13 something approximate to cn ." Hello, World!" cn 02:29:29 Should be pretty simple in gnu dc as well 02:31:19 Once you know one forth you know all the forths 02:31:34 Just have to be careful steppign into someone else's forth 02:44:09 --- quit: nighty (Remote host closed the connection) 03:05:52 nerfur`: yes, it is a custom CPU made in TTY logic. It also has a corresponding virtual machine to allow other people to develop code for it if they like. 03:07:36 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 03:40:07 url? 03:56:28 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@183.88.64.36) joined #forth 03:56:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 04:20:48 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 04:49:25 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Verlassend/leaving) 05:01:44 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:5455:8a1f:7596:7b49) joined #forth 05:06:47 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 05:47:12 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@24-246-56-85.cable.teksavvy.com) joined #forth 05:48:26 --- quit: rgrinberg (Client Quit) 05:48:51 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@24-246-56-85.cable.teksavvy.com) joined #forth 06:06:29 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:5d9a:b444:1a5:f76) joined #forth 06:11:23 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 07:07:57 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:29a3:d46a:a22a:5360) joined #forth 07:12:15 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 07:23:14 --- quit: mark4 (Quit: Leaving) 08:11:39 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:616d:1390:4976:2f75) joined #forth 08:14:30 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p57A2F491.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 08:16:09 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 08:44:13 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:616d:1390:4976:2f75) joined #forth 09:03:46 --- quit: Keshl (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 09:04:08 --- join: Keshl (~Purple@24.115.181.94.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 09:22:40 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 09:27:53 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 09:39:28 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 09:42:51 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 09:43:04 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 09:58:33 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@152.179.131.166) joined #forth 10:08:51 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@72.143.111.226) joined #forth 10:10:45 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@152.179.131.166) joined #forth 10:14:04 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 10:24:25 --- quit: reepca (Remote host closed the connection) 10:25:20 --- join: reepca (~user@std-001.cune.edu) joined #forth 10:35:45 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 10:37:06 --- quit: shagster (Remote host closed the connection) 10:51:23 --- quit: rgrinberg (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:56:26 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-64-237-237-37.prtc.net) joined #forth 11:01:16 --- quit: fiddlerwoaroof (Quit: Gone.) 11:11:40 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@72.143.111.226) joined #forth 11:17:30 --- join: fiddlerwoaroof (~fiddlerwo@unaffiliated/fiddlerwoaroof) joined #forth 11:32:04 --- join: PoppaVic (~PoppaVic@unaffiliated/poppavic) joined #forth 12:11:46 --- quit: pointfree (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 12:12:02 --- join: pointfree (~pointfree@c-174-62-81-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:42:03 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 12:42:19 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 12:56:44 --- quit: fiddlerwoaroof (Quit: Gone.) 13:16:31 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 13:44:05 --- join: fiddlerwoaroof (~fiddlerwo@unaffiliated/fiddlerwoaroof) joined #forth 13:47:26 --- join: rgrinberg (~rgrinberg@24-246-56-85.cable.teksavvy.com) joined #forth 13:55:19 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 13:56:01 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 14:12:36 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 14:12:50 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 15:34:28 nerfur`: You can get the source code the for the VM here: https://github.com/oriansj/stage0 15:51:11 Oh. Hi PoppaVic. How are you? 15:51:26 getting along, coding madly 15:51:42 LOL. As I expected it from you. :-) 15:52:09 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:52:10 well, I got the code done to talk to the little arduino boards, then I decided to start working on the host-side 15:53:23 Uh. Sounds like good progress. 15:54:24 Yeah, I think so.. File extensions w/ gforth, ported in an avr assembler for cross-assembling - added ihex file support.. 15:57:30 Much work done during the last two or three weeks. 15:59:16 Yeah. I got into a groove with gforth 15:59:51 Which assembler have You ported? 15:59:52 the docs are still iffy/bloated|poor, but you can test shit so fast, you just rock-on 16:01:29 Uh. Sounds good if one succeeds in spite of the docs. :-) 16:01:57 It's a mixed-case.. Some of their docs are quite useful, then you run into "we just didn't feel like it" 16:02:09 lol 16:02:33 happily, it all works a load better if you grab the gforth from git and build it - plus sources when you get irate. 16:03:19 I shit--you-not: This is the first gforth I've ever had that actually does code-disasm with "see" - every ubuntu gforth package I've installed has been busted. 16:03:20 Cant blame them. Docs are the boring part. I fight with them either. Piece by piece. 16:04:00 I can blame them.. They went GNU, so: do the work, boys. 16:04:48 Hope they hear you. 16:05:03 From the looks of it, it's barely maintained anymore. 16:05:27 Oh. 16:05:48 bad 16:06:08 BUT, now that I got a cross-assembler for AVR, and all these other supports I've hacked-up, I can start to focus on the target. 16:06:46 ..Just now, integrating the image-file words with the xasm, so I'll be back on track by next week. 16:07:07 Take your time. :-) 16:08:17 well, I've been straying left & right to extract words and create their own little files for future-use.. Like words to fetch/store u16 and u32, etc byte and word-swappers, etc. Much fun. 16:08:58 Oh ja. These neat little simple aux words. I know that. 16:09:32 Crossing fingers at each assembler run, if memory will be not stressed too much. 16:09:34 yeah, I love 'em.. Heh.. I had to create a hidden-words support-system to see where the hell I was going ;-) 16:10:02 Oh. You have also hidden words. Like me. Funny. 16:10:28 Is that very common? Never asked me that. 16:10:43 heh.. I can do all the asm on the PC, create a bin or hexfile, upload it and try it.. BUT, the uno wordset relies on a small tether-program to peek & poke and execute on the uno and I should be able to use that, too 16:11:36 MickyW: The pundits don't really even like 'vocabulary' - they prefer to dump it all in 'FORTH' - but geezus-god, there must be 500 words in there 16:12:08 so, I've created a voc-hierarchy and use the search-orders. 16:13:18 each voc that gets a little support-bloated can create and use a 'hidden' voc.. HIDE{ and }HIDE will stuff words therein, and you can always .HIDE to list what you've hidden. 16:13:37 Aha. 16:14:54 those freaky "wordlists" were the other alternative, and I really dislike 'em... Like, they show up in 'vocs' listings, but only as "???" 16:16:28 --- join: nighty (~nighty@p001.gate.atson.jp) joined #forth 16:17:03 Hm. 16:17:26 Different approaches. But however. 16:19:12 In the meantime I changed subject on various occasions - as it is my usual behavior. Right now, trying to fix my old MacIntosh. But that was at weekend. But thought about continuing on my FORTH. Think I will do so, this week. Some more delays, blocking now. Still recreacting my lost backup. So I was not really motivated. 16:19:13 Yeah, I thought about 'em, but.. I'm not sold.. I think it costs more overhead than a nested 'hidden' voc 16:20:11 I just set the namelength to zero. That aborts the name output. But, as I said ... different approaches. 16:20:39 yeah, the arduino IDE managed to nuke my working directory, so I lost a weeks notes and work. Happily, I was so into-it at the time, I was able to recreate the losses from a week-old tarball in about 6 hours of panic-typing ;-) 16:20:55 Ooooh, no. 16:21:06 Too bad. Im so sorry for you. 16:21:19 Needless to say, I then went off and learned how to use "Crontab" ;-P 16:21:44 dude, I saved myself in record time, so it just pissed me off at the stupid IDE 16:22:36 Said all what has to be said about Arduino! :-) 16:22:44 yeah. 16:22:56 accursed java-abortion 16:23:14 Grmbl. Java. 16:23:51 But to be fair. Its not the language. Merely lack of tests. 16:23:56 My opinion. 16:24:02 I may just get peeved and ascertain what and how to talk to the optiboot bootloader myself.. Although, I have modded mine to add flash-support usable from the app-space. 16:24:59 Oh. Thats a bit tricky as well. 16:25:36 Already have that complete. (Fingers crossed). 16:27:20 PoppaVic: are you not putting your work and notes in version control synced to a seperate physical system? 16:27:32 Updatable bootloader? 16:29:00 OriansJ: I never use git, and I basically have only one. Although, I do throw to dropbox about monthly 16:30:40 MickyW: well, there is room in optiboot to add the few instructions to run SPM and reset RWW enable and return - so, the app can just make a regular call, with the proper initial register settings - and the return should arrive in enabled flash again (I believe that enable I was missing was the entire issue I was having) 16:30:43 I do use git. But mine was an exceptional case as I wanted to work on a laptop and then the working copy got lost. (Will not tell why :-) ) Normally I backup every second day. 16:31:25 PoppaVic: Is there any particular reason you don't value the things you create? 16:31:31 PoppaVic: Did the same. Likely, there is only this way. 16:31:39 I let cron build the versioned tarball one level up, every 30min.. I may switch to hourly, but I was peeved. As well, I may tell it to publish to dropbox every week. 16:32:10 OriansJ: I've created tons over the years. No one else cared It's a hobby. 16:33:05 MickyW: could you codepad your addition to the bootloader? I'll check against mine as well.. 16:33:16 PoppaVic: I assume my case is not as critical, as I work on a VM on an NAS-RAID5. (Again fingers crossed). 16:33:25 ah 16:33:26 What das "codepad" mean? 16:33:49 codepad.org lets you post snippets.. THere are other sites, but some really suck 16:33:50 das -> does 16:34:36 And what "addition" do you mean? Sorry. Apparently missed something. 16:35:04 pastebin ok? 16:35:10 sure! 16:36:00 PoppaVic: private chat ok? 16:36:12 sure 16:36:35 This is what I appended: http://pastebin.com/jSQVjdsh 16:37:26 Their sources embed the opcodes inline all over, so I needed a single, we-always-see-a-func-call/ret point. 16:38:31 As-is, my app-space code can now load up the apropos regs, do a regular call to a fixed address, and it should do whateverthehell I told it - even nuke me, (but the bootloader remains intact). 16:44:56 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 17:13:41 --- join: nal1 (~nal@adsl-72-50-84-145.prtc.net) joined #forth 17:16:49 --- quit: nal (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 17:50:18 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Verlassend/leaving) 18:05:14 --- quit: mnemnia (Remote host closed the connection) 18:07:32 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@152.179.131.166) joined #forth 18:12:07 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 18:19:37 --- quit: groovy2shoes (Quit: Leaving) 18:23:32 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 18:36:11 --- quit: karswell` (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 18:36:55 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:11ff:e02e:9aea:fe9) joined #forth 18:39:19 --- join: karswell` (~user@216.160.115.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 19:01:52 --- quit: karswell` (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 19:09:44 --- join: karswell` (~user@187.124.114.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 19:40:47 --- quit: karswell` (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 20:21:56 --- join: karswell` (~user@187.124.114.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 20:29:03 --- quit: pointfree (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 20:46:37 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 20:48:20 --- part: PoppaVic left #forth 20:53:08 --- join: pointfree (~pointfree@c-174-62-81-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 23:02:40 --- quit: rgrinberg (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:41:04 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 23:45:29 --- quit: nal1 (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.10.03