00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.09.20 00:25:19 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 00:28:14 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #forth 00:54:30 --- join: dys (~dys@et-0-55.gw-nat.bs.kae.de.oneandone.net) joined #forth 01:00:57 forth is sort of like a special computer skill 01:01:07 it's like perl in that it can be like a glue and duct tape language 01:01:32 perl base is very portable 01:01:55 but forth is also very portabe because you can be implemented just about anywhere and most places that you'd want it to be implemented in it is. 01:07:30 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 01:12:25 --- quit: nal (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 01:15:05 --- quit: DocPlatypus (Quit: Leaving) 01:23:13 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 01:41:50 forth really makes me think about code in a different way than I did before 01:42:35 I saw it through the lense of a distribution with these gigantic cogs that when you try to replace them or even fidget with them a bunch of little pieces fall out of place and you just end up with a broken machine. 01:42:54 and it's like it's wired so tight that the engineers are running around putting out fires in it 01:43:09 things are becoming very abstracted in computer distributions 01:43:37 most users who use distributions are so abstracted that all they can understand is pictures that they can touch. 01:43:38 --- join: DKordic (~user@79-101-189-88.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) joined #forth 01:44:03 with the mark of hololense we are transforming into a virtual age where we wear gaming desktops on our heads. 01:45:54 Kids growing up to day learn to use cloud interfaces when they are toddlers 01:46:19 But amongst all this bootstrapping is alot of confusion and alot of things shifting around trying to outdo each other 01:46:50 each is just like a fish swimming in the ocean seeking a mate so it can populate the world had and give it's genes an evolutionary advanatages 01:47:04 languages bud off of each other just like ideas or like animals in evolution 01:47:36 So the reason why I like forth is arbitrary 01:47:47 and yet I very greatly enjoy using forth it is a delight 01:48:07 everything I've learned about forth points it to be the answers that I've been trying to solve in computers 01:48:25 within days of learning forth I was learning about the internals of a computer processor 01:48:29 that means something to me 01:48:49 I tihnk the folly of forth is that it is not seen as being a high level programming language 01:49:01 and also that when people google forth they get alot of accounts of many different versions of forth 01:49:44 it can be tricky until you've used some forth to see how robust it can be 01:50:03 and forth can be made to do any high level thing you like 01:50:15 you can even abstract the stack away from yourself and make it work like lisp 01:50:57 but the magic as you learn forth is that as you keep reinventing forth and recuztomizing these things from scratch to meet your needs, you start to realize that reverse polish notation basically already meets all of your needs 01:51:14 sort of like how many lispers just choose to live with parens rather than shake things up 01:51:51 and as you learn the simple tricks of using a stack you realize you can build up a language of words for doing common manipulation techniques on a stack and that this meta language is one of the truly powerful languages available to forth 01:52:29 for example it seems most object systems that forthers use flow from some original source many of which are slightly altered on that 01:53:34 the other thing you have to think about is how values in the stack can get passed through and sandwitched between many functions and transformed as the functions sort of ride along the stack 01:53:50 and whatever is left in the stack at the current moment is your current state/answer 01:54:40 but really there's no limit to how you can program forth. forth is made so minimal clearly because once you go reverse polish notation it allows you to create a very very minimal base. So minimal it is too good to pass up such a minimal base 01:55:08 though I think in the world we are living in where we have 8 gb + of ram coming out on computers owned by teens, it is necessary to rethink our policies about bootstrapping and high level programming 01:55:35 holy molly 01:55:46 I think you mean moley 01:56:34 Do you has comment? 01:58:54 I was just surprised by amount of text just in moment of time 02:00:14 yeah 02:00:19 I have lots of thoughts about forth 02:01:40 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 02:13:03 the problem is if you want a really massive game like fallout 3, then you'd have to basically reprogram that into every system 02:13:27 you need to actually be able to install a program that can run on lots of computers 02:13:58 but every time someone tries to make a base everyone can agree on it doesn't work out 02:41:28 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:b431:81f:9b0b:be26) joined #forth 02:43:05 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 02:45:41 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 03:01:46 --- quit: DKordic (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 03:27:07 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:2ce9:b158:492e:75d) joined #forth 03:31:27 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 03:39:45 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 03:40:43 --- join: karswell (~user@13.239.113.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 04:54:42 --- join: DKordic (~user@93-87-111-119.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) joined #forth 05:26:28 --- join: CORDIC (~user@93-86-105-234.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) joined #forth 05:27:43 --- quit: DKordic (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 05:40:12 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 06:12:36 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@c-73-166-108-48.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:04:38 --- quit: DGASAU (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08:06:01 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 08:27:42 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:a192:c7a9:b4fb:e219) joined #forth 08:32:15 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 08:42:51 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 08:52:47 --- quit: nighty (Remote host closed the connection) 08:54:36 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 09:20:47 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:a192:c7a9:b4fb:e219) joined #forth 09:26:13 --- quit: DocPlatypus (Quit: Leaving) 12:09:13 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 12:23:31 --- join: dys (~dys@x5f723b74.dyn.telefonica.de) joined #forth 12:51:57 --- join: groovy2shoes (~groovy2sh@unaffiliated/groovebot) joined #forth 13:01:36 --- join: gyxile (~nick@cpc80309-grim18-2-0-cust167.12-3.cable.virginm.net) joined #forth 13:19:16 --- quit: gyxile (Quit: Ex-Chat) 13:50:07 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 13:56:19 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 13:56:45 --- quit: nha_ (Quit: Ex-Chat) 13:56:49 --- join: nha__ (~nha@rea75-3-88-190-132-231.fbxo.proxad.net) joined #forth 14:29:43 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 15:02:13 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:26:19 --- join: CodeTortoise (~CodeTorto@2602:306:37fe:b70:6c11:9682:136f:1ad8) joined #forth 15:27:54 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 15:33:32 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 15:50:04 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 16:06:09 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-64-237-236-166.prtc.net) joined #forth 16:31:43 --- quit: CodeTortoise (Quit: Leaving) 16:47:47 --- join: nighty (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 17:03:48 --- join: DKordic (~user@93-87-160-76.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) joined #forth 17:05:09 --- quit: CORDIC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 17:25:30 --- join: ASau` (~user@176.7.124.122) joined #forth 17:25:43 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 17:33:16 --- quit: nha__ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 17:48:18 --- quit: irsol (Remote host closed the connection) 17:48:56 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 18:05:29 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 18:11:56 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 21:36:18 --- quit: phadthai (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 21:44:33 --- quit: nal (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 21:55:50 --- join: phadthai (mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net) joined #forth 23:24:05 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 23:36:41 --- quit: phadthai (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 23:44:46 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 23:45:54 --- join: phadthai (mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net) joined #forth 23:49:07 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.09.20