00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.09.10 00:53:14 --- quit: phadthai (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 01:05:05 --- join: karswell (~user@216.18.189.80.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 01:05:05 --- join: groovy2shoes (~groovy2sh@unaffiliated/groovebot) joined #forth 01:05:05 --- join: djinni_ (~djinni@68.ip-149-56-14.net) joined #forth 01:05:05 --- join: jeremyheiler (sid81469@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pnegvuvcallwbpeh) joined #forth 01:05:05 --- join: nighty-_ (~cp@www.taiyolabs.com) joined #forth 01:05:05 --- join: eatonphil (weechat@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe91:94a9) joined #forth 01:05:05 --- join: diginet2 (~diginet@107.170.146.29) joined #forth 01:05:50 --- join: Vendan (~Vendan@li469-176.members.linode.com) joined #forth 01:05:50 --- join: the_cuckoo (~charlie@d51a50ae9.access.telenet.be) joined #forth 01:05:50 --- join: APic (apic@apic.name) joined #forth 01:05:50 --- join: Keshl (~Purple@24.115.181.94.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 01:05:50 --- join: gordonjcp (~gordonjcp@ilyushin.gjcp.net) joined #forth 01:07:03 --- quit: ggherdov`_ (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 01:07:05 --- quit: jeremyheiler (Ping timeout: 242 seconds) 01:09:15 --- quit: ovf (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 01:13:06 --- join: jeremyheiler (sid81469@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-msrtkfsmpqokrkyj) joined #forth 01:16:43 --- join: ggherdov`_ (sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nahlpsmormfifhrv) joined #forth 01:17:43 --- join: ovf (sid19068@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tngcltpxpyuawauy) joined #forth 01:19:35 --- join: neceve (~ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 01:27:23 --- quit: Skuzzzy (Quit: Cya Weeaboos) 01:28:25 --- join: Skuzzzy (~Skuzzzy@149-169-125-18.nat.asu.edu) joined #forth 01:58:46 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.222.10) joined #forth 02:02:40 --- join: phadthai (mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net) joined #forth 02:14:46 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 02:24:37 reepca: cool, thanks for the info. 02:34:19 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:814:f4fb:81c5:6d29) joined #forth 02:38:30 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 03:26:01 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:d19a:86fe:3cd5:8d64) joined #forth 03:30:30 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 04:41:13 --- quit: segher (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 04:41:25 --- join: segher (segher@bombadil.infradead.org) joined #forth 05:16:37 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:d19a:86fe:3cd5:8d64) joined #forth 05:21:52 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 05:55:07 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@180.183.132.18) joined #forth 05:55:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 06:34:59 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:919c:7b8c:834f:4257) joined #forth 06:39:26 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 08:07:17 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 08:26:50 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:193:5feb:ab8d:5402) joined #forth 08:31:14 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 08:53:49 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-72-50-87-229.prtc.net) joined #forth 09:24:50 --- quit: phadthai (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 09:28:32 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f0b1:9401:ade2:9b58) joined #forth 09:30:01 --- join: phadthai (mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net) joined #forth 09:32:46 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 09:40:16 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 10:08:25 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f0b1:9401:ade2:9b58) joined #forth 10:09:59 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 10:10:47 --- quit: Zarutian (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:11:02 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 10:37:25 --- quit: phadthai (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:41:43 --- join: phadthai (~mmondor@206.248.143.74) joined #forth 12:02:49 I was talking to some of my friends about forth and they were telling me that it doesn't scale very well because it can't multithread 12:04:15 Then they don't know much about forth. It's not that it can't, it's that it's not frequently done because the philosophy of forth usually finds such things to be unnecessary complexity. 12:04:52 neither him nor I knew much about forth. We were both lispers 12:06:04 There's nothing inherent to forth that makes it impossible to use multiple threads. Each thread has its own stack, just like each thread in a virtual register machine has its own set of registers (either different physical registers or emulated different registers via context switching) 12:07:18 A more relevant concern might be that of instruction-level parallelism, which the stack would appear to limit (the stack being one big serialization point). There's some interesting research out there in this area - in short, you can make a superscalar stack machine, but it adds quite a bit of complexity (just like it does in register machines). That being said, I don't claim to fully understand it. 12:08:06 The area I am looking into right now is cloud containers 12:08:34 and the goal of it would be to have a sort of chroot environment where the only file available is a gforth binary 12:08:44 and you simply give it instructions and it spits out output 12:09:06 and coordinating many of these gforth containers together to solve programming problems 12:09:41 where it really interests me at the moment is in sorting data 12:13:45 There is a chip with 144 cores which are oriented for hardware Forth execution. 12:14:20 So, what about their Blub language? %) 12:15:48 You don't need to think in superscalar terms about stack architecture, even if you don't like MIMD for some reason. 12:17:15 Just try to understand how it's possible to increase amount of operations per cycle with stack processor. 12:18:41 One way is to use CISC-like instructions. 12:19:01 There's also the multiple-stack VLIW approach 12:19:36 Yes, but it's a bit too much for me :) 12:20:49 Personally I think that the simplicity of implementation of stack processors would make them a good fit for embarrassingly parallel problems. Where you don't really care much about the serial performance, and the cost/energy savings of each individual unit more than make up for it. 12:21:12 Even with "normal" VLIW machines there is a high risk that their FUs will be underloaded on real code. 12:21:59 makes me wonder why GPUs don't have tiny little stack processors on them. Or do they? I guess I haven't really checked. 12:22:48 No, they use RISC + CISC hybrid architecture. 12:23:57 A graph of tiny simple stack processors is very attractive think for many DSP-related tasks. 12:24:16 For real-time control of with many sources and targets. 12:26:17 do you guys get alot of lisp programmers who are curious about forth or just embedded programmers? 12:26:57 It might be a bit much to claim we get "a lot" of anybody, lol. 12:27:43 Well, Forth definitely got a lot from APL, Lisp and early stack machines like B5000. 12:28:25 It's just I never had much experienced with embedded, low level or assembly 12:28:40 and so my natural reaction to forth is to want to create an operating system with loadable libraries 12:28:47 REPL, dictionary, program transformation/metaprogramming... -- its all from Lisp, I suppose. 12:28:51 or I shoudl say a distribution not an operating system 12:29:27 all you need to load libraries is a compiler ;~) 12:29:37 which all forth systems come with 12:29:41 But to implement repositories is what I mean I guess 12:29:52 so that I coudl download lets say an ssh protocol from a repository 12:29:55 or something like that 12:30:14 Sort of like what you have with quicklisp for common lisp or pip for python? 12:30:23 many languages have this 12:30:32 The closest comparison would be apt or yum in linux 12:30:48 where you can install a package from a repository in the web and be assured that it is safe to load into your system 12:30:54 and users can add their own packages to this system 12:31:05 futhermore that users can rank each other's packages 12:31:11 John[Lisbeth], Then you can look at Forth-like languages: Postscript, Joy etc. They are like LIsp, but they based on stack combinators instead of lambda calculus. But from a pure functional point a choose of combinators or lambda -- it doesn't really matter. 12:31:41 could you implement lambda calculus in combinators? 12:31:44 stupid question but there it is 12:31:50 The thing is, those systems only work safely-ish because a lot of people spend a lot of time reviewing the packages. 12:32:12 true but it doesn't seem like there is even such a thing as forth packages 12:32:12 John[Lisbeth], Sure. The both have the same strength. 12:32:30 so there is no review process in the first place for forth 12:33:32 I see soemthing like gforth as the base of something much larger to be built 12:33:54 but in keeping with the forth principles as much as possible this thing could still be very minimal 12:34:55 Most forth users tend to roll their own libraries. That way it perfectly fits their problem. If they really don't want to write something on their own, they would either find something on github to download or use what their system provides or write a C interface. A curated collection of code that many people find helpful could be nice, though. 12:35:29 Yeah I suppose you could just plug it up into c 12:35:36 that would be a good solution for certain things 12:35:55 (especially where there is no other way: see also unix sockets, opengl, etc) 12:36:03 The things are worse for Forth if you take its standard definition in account :) Just count the number of pages of ANS Forth standard. And then compare it with Scheme and its report. You will get an impression that Scheme is _much_ simpler than Forth. Or maybe it's not just an impression... 12:36:05 I suppose I am intending implementing a library which allows you to upload and download other libraries from a repository 12:36:57 John[Lisbeth]: I would look to quicklisp for inspiration/direction on how to do that, it sounds a lot like what you're describing. 12:37:23 And if we talk about simple languages there are also Oberon, Rebol, K and some others to check. 12:37:46 --- quit: John[Lisbeth] (Remote host closed the connection) 12:40:04 --- join: John[Lisbeth] (~user@104.210.150.234) joined #forth 12:40:12 sorry I had a weird crash in my development server 12:41:41 I guess what I am saying is I recognize that fourth is the way it is because when you combine stack processing with an assembly it allows you to create a very versatile system for very little 12:41:53 and I get that in forth you are able to easily build a language to suit your own problem 12:42:10 but I think one problem people try to solve is that they want standard protocols for certain things 12:42:41 and I think it is possible to allow people to use these protocols without drastically changing the way forth works, but rather simply add onto a forth implementation 12:44:58 rebol! its what i'm trying to learn now :D 12:45:37 true-grue: is it dead though? theres no irc channel, there doesnt appear to be a community for it, more for rebol though 12:45:49 and the other day the website went offline 12:46:02 nal, Try this http://www.red-lang.org/ 12:46:26 i know, i have it, but rebol has docs 12:46:55 and its incompatible at times 12:50:10 this is probably the biggest forth community there is, isn't it? 12:50:36 not really, it's quite fragmented. 12:50:46 I could imagine so 12:51:12 oh, and there was a word i ran the other day which i needed to use which just said "to be implement" or something like that (thats in red) 12:52:48 The community seems (in my opinion) to have more of a philosophy of "the coding is more interesting than the language", so you don't see many actively discussing it. It certainly seems less language-centric than lisp, for example. 12:52:51 --- join: Mat4 (~sommerspr@x4e30b8cf.dyn.telefonica.de) joined #forth 12:54:29 hello 12:54:34 hi 12:57:21 lol I accidentally redefined 12 12:57:31 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p4FCFE33C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 12:57:54 ah, and gforth doesn't implement FORGET... 12:57:56 I'm thinking about exploit ITC for self modificating words and word generators. Does someone here know if this was exploited before ? 12:58:37 self-modifying words? like "this word will append itself to itself when run"? 12:59:02 Or like "this word will change ; so that when run it will do something special and then change itself back to its original meaning"? 12:59:18 the later defination 12:59:35 yeah it's a pretty cool concept 13:00:02 but all of the postponing / parsing words makes it a bit of a headache to get right 13:01:10 as written, I use ITC modification (indirect-threaded code), which is quite elegant in my opinion to postpone and other 'concepts' 13:03:18 Perhaps I need to think more about how I do Boolean algebra in gelFORTH. 13:03:28 https://hackaday.io/project/12488-gelforth 13:03:32 in fact, it is somewhat similar to Lisp programming (please be aware that my Lisp experience is limited to early Lisp environments) 13:04:44 I want to eliminate named variables when defining Boolean logic in gelFORTH. 13:04:58 pointfree: Nice project 13:05:15 Mat4: Thanks! 13:05:56 Right now I have a kind of ladder-logic-ish wordset... 13:07:34 xor gate: (~a*b)|(a*~b) is written like : xor /- -- , -- /- , ; 13:08:18 ah, take a look at the 6502 PLA (the control bus) for some inspirations 13:10:13 /- is not gate (AND/in-series switch). -- is yes gate (AND/in-series switch). , (comma) creates a parallel wire (effectively OR-gate) 13:12:03 routing is also expressed in Boolean algebra also as parallel or in-series wires and switches. Thus combining routing with synthesis. 13:13:01 Permutivity and Associativity properties in Boolean algebra give placement flexibility. 13:15:09 Right now I'm taking a user driven, hands-on, factoring based approach to factoring Boolean algebra directly on the UDB/CPLD array (with the gate's word headers stored in flash of course). 13:17:03 My problem now is how would I express the following without named parameters? X=(A&B)|(~C&D) 13:18:28 This time Product Terms are not reused in the second OR term. 13:19:38 One reason for eliminating named parameters was for the sake of Forthiness... 13:22:55 The other reason was because I considered naming variables to be an initial human level optimization stage in which the human makes statements about what is the same... and in Forth I don't like to have multiple stages of parsing and filtering etc. I prefer to do it in one pass. 13:23:09 Yet I still take a factoring based approach hahas... 13:23:46 * Zarutian really like Forth for its bootstrabability and seamlessness between words (routines) defined by user and those defined by language or system 13:25:28 pointfree: I think the problem lays in the fact that you need at least a 'functional' pattern for handling state changes if you don't want relate to 'named variables' 13:25:33 pointfree: : ble ( A B C D -- X ) & ~ >R & R> | ; should work 13:26:25 you can define a stack for that 13:26:57 ok, you use the return stack, all right 13:29:36 however as I have not taken a look at gelForth, I'm unsure to understand your problem right 13:31:29 So, I may need to use stack manipulators in the expressions unless argument references (I/O pins etc) are embedded in the expression. 13:35:19 (The UDB array aka CPLD and routing registers themselves are used as a multidimensional stack directly at the moment so configuration is live) 13:35:56 I think so. My working Retro version implement a newer VM, which is accumulator/stack based. With such a ISA stack items can be reserved for such purposes and the overhead is avoidable 13:44:38 I use mainly combinators like bi, tri, @bi (which are compiled directly to stack relative addressing operations) 13:52:52 Ok, you don't want to do embedded tasks on Forth and, especially, on Forth processor. Then what the point in all these >r r> and such "Forthiness"? Why not to generate stack combinators on the fly? 13:55:09 No names. Use inputs and outputs. Just like you do in logic synthesis. So, for example, swap has two inputs and two outputs and we need to describe it in 1d text form. {1 2 -> 2 1}. 13:55:25 : x {a b c d -> a b d c} ~ & {a b d_&_~c -> d_&_~c a b} & | ; 13:56:18 So you get executable specifications for free :) And it should be very readable with a good syntax highlight. 13:56:51 ~. 14:14:30 arg... apparently 0 50 do ... loop will cause an infinite loop. That's problematic... is there a version where that *doesn't* cause an infinite loop? 14:15:08 reepca: `+do' in GForth. 14:15:19 DKordic: thanks 14:15:33 Not really an infinite loop, but `cell' is quite large :) . 14:27:33 My original thought was that if I don't use names I get good reuse almost for free (what looks the same is the same). In contrast, I thought that with names I would get some redundant expressions simply because the human chose different names for expressions that would otherwise be the same. 14:27:39 But I suppose, true-grue, the 'what looks the same is the same' principle applies with name pin/peripheral inputs as well. 14:28:31 --- quit: Zarutian (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:28:49 *named 14:29:26 is there a way I can retrieve a byte treated as a two's-complement 8-bit number instead of an unsigned number? 14:29:41 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 14:31:10 -1
c!
c@ . => 255 but I want -1 back :/ 14:32:45 this feels like one of those obvious things I always miss 14:32:48 --- join: ASau` (~user@176.7.91.16) joined #forth 14:32:50 or misunderstand 14:33:03 --- quit: ASau (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:35:48 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 14:36:03 true-grue: good idea 14:38:07 ... question... is a VALUE allowed to be inlined in ANS Forth? 14:39:26 what do you mean with 'inlined', a literal ? 14:39:44 yeah. 14:40:26 --- quit: Zarutian (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 14:41:04 I ask because I have a definition that doesn't work, and then I compiled another one with a different name but the exact same content, and then it worked. 14:41:10 reepca: ``: sign-extend ( u bit-index -- n ) 1 swap lshift over and negate or ;'' 14:41:42 `` 255 7 sign-extend .'' 14:44:03 .. and then I redefined the original word with the exact same definition and now it works? 14:45:34 Oh never mind, I see it now that I restarted gforth - it depended on another word defined after it, so whenever I compiled it it was one iteration behind the thing it depended on 14:58:48 --- join: nal1 (~nal@adsl-64-237-234-68.prtc.net) joined #forth 15:02:31 --- quit: nal (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 15:17:33 --- quit: Mat4 (Quit: leaving) 15:20:52 --- quit: ASau (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:31:17 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f0b1:9401:ade2:9b58) joined #forth 15:33:44 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 15:34:39 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 15:36:21 --- quit: mnemnia (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:56:02 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:09:46 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Verlassend/leaving) 16:10:50 --- quit: neceve (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 16:25:19 do you guys know how to get forth onto busybox? 16:26:20 John[Lisbeth]: that question doesn't make a lot of sense 16:26:39 can you explain what you're trying to do? 16:27:48 get a forth repl in busybox 16:28:01 as in a binary that when I run it will start a forth rpl or allow me to execute a file 16:30:22 John[Lisbeth]: ARM? 16:30:26 "BusyBox is software that provides several stripped-down Unix tools in a single executable file" - Wikipedia. In this context the question doesn't seem to make much sense, unless you're wondering how to include a forth system as one of the tools? 16:31:09 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:31:11 well I am trying to get the most minimal forth repl going inside of a docker container 16:31:27 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f0b1:9401:ade2:9b58) joined #forth 16:31:27 preferably I could just take from my /usr/bin/gforth 16:32:32 but I may end up doing something like copying the gforth binary in with wget 16:41:42 --- join: lambda-11235 (~lambda-11@184.63.207.209) joined #forth 16:49:16 I tried to download a binary from here: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Binonly/ 16:49:30 it says that it does not come without the sources but that file does indeed come with the sources 16:49:35 and I can't seem to run it 16:50:40 I can't find an executable that I seem to be able to run with my shell in there 16:51:48 the one I used was http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Binonly/gforth-0.4.0-binonly-i386-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz 16:52:40 probably the file called "gforth" 16:52:56 I try to run ./gforth and it says file not found 16:52:59 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 16:53:00 --- quit: ASau (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:53:06 in busyboxy it says sh: ./gforth: not found 16:53:21 is it built for the architecture you're running it on? 16:53:27 Not sure 16:53:29 wtf has busybox got to do with it? 16:53:44 busybox is the container I am running 16:53:51 perhaps I need to compile gforth after all 16:53:56 almost certainly 16:54:11 sounds like you have a profoundly overcomplicated setup 16:54:33 just a container 16:56:28 how familiar are you with Linux? 16:57:22 I've been using linux for six years 16:57:32 I am pretty familiar with the command line and cli utilities 16:57:37 I don't know alot about the inner workings of the system 16:57:53 hm 16:58:16 okay, so the "not found" thing is probably because you haven't got the libraries needed to run that build of gforth 16:58:36 did you notice the date stamp on the website? 16:59:37 that does indeed complicate things 16:59:52 those were current around the era of kernel 2.0 17:00:27 I should be able to copy a copy of gforth from my host distribution 17:00:33 since it works on my architecture 17:03:41 This is a binary directly from my host machine from /usr/bin/gforth 17:03:48 and I have copied it into /gforth on my container 17:04:14 when I enter my container and type ./gfrth I get /bin/sh: /gforth: not found 17:06:57 you've got some sort of library missing, most likely 17:07:25 gosh darnit 17:08:04 I've got to figure out what binary that is 17:08:45 the problem is there is hardly any documentation on forth 17:09:04 unsure if trolling or unable to use google 17:29:20 certainly not trolling and I'm googling like a madman 17:29:29 just not alot of documentation on forth outside of how to use a forth repl 17:31:13 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:31:20 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f0b1:9401:ade2:9b58) joined #forth 17:32:50 John[Lisbeth]: uhm 17:33:01 not sure what you're typing into google then 17:33:12 you haven't read Brad Rodriguez's articles? 17:36:04 no I can't say that I have 17:50:15 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 17:50:23 --- quit: ASau (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:56:19 btw, Thanks all for your advice on gelFORTH. 17:56:49 true-grue: I'm liking your idea. 18:05:35 Well I foudn out my ubuntu container was alot smaller than I thought 18:05:56 it runs gforth at around 900k to 4 meg and the descrepancy I could not tell you why it happens at this point 18:06:06 some start at 900 k and some start at 4 meg 18:07:14 but eventually I would have to find out what architecture a docker scratch image runs and then write some sort of standard forth into it 18:20:04 --- quit: mekaj (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 18:24:53 --- quit: karswell (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 18:28:08 http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/551.jvn.fall01/fsm.html 19:33:14 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f0b1:9401:ade2:9b58) joined #forth 19:35:31 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 19:39:11 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f0b1:9401:ade2:9b58) joined #forth 19:41:02 --- quit: mnemnia (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:49:04 do you guys know where I could go to find one of those really old forth implementations? 19:49:22 like the ones from like the commedore 64 era 20:01:42 I'm currently housing the entire remaining stock of Mountain View Press (a Forth publisher) in two storage lockers by my apartment. There are a lot of C64 Forth cartridges. 20:02:30 My friend recently offered to give me her dad's old commedore 64 20:02:35 John[Lisbeth], I could send you a cartridge and other Forth goods after sorting if you're interested. 20:02:48 Do you have a machine that will run the cartridge? 20:02:55 or know one that does that will still run today 20:03:24 otherwise there is the jupiter ace archive (and web-based jupiter ace emulator) 20:03:45 I don't have a Commondore 64 myself. 20:07:42 John[Lisbeth]: there's also the FIGnition which provides the 1980's era Forth experience and it's still sold: https://sites.google.com/site/libby8dev/fignition 20:09:08 do you think the commedore 64 programs will run on the fignition? 20:13:03 They might need to be adapted a little, such as for the bitmap graphics and other things. Otherwise yes I think so. 20:16:03 *the C64 Forth programs that is 20:49:47 that computer has 8 k wow 21:22:03 --- join: karswell (~user@216.18.189.80.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 21:34:41 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 21:51:00 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 21:55:33 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 22:15:03 --- join: ringer1 (~ringer1@104-54-234-157.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 22:34:52 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:a476:21e9:1cac:f1c2) joined #forth 22:40:59 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 22:50:40 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 22:51:19 --- join: karswell` (~user@216.18.189.80.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 22:54:35 --- quit: lambda-11235 (Quit: Bye) 22:59:11 I feel like it's rude to ask this but are there implementations of postfix which you consider better than forth? 23:00:32 John[Lisbeth]: I have no idea what You mean. 23:00:56 Well more commonly used among postfi programmers than forth 23:01:57 from what I have been reading forth seems to be the grand daddy of postfix notation languages 23:02:05 but some people say joy or postscript 23:03:33 Or [[http://factorcode.org/][Factor]]. I think it is called Type System. 23:11:51 Or http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Pointfree 23:28:22 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:9d8:1cf1:17f4:aaae) joined #forth 23:32:59 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 23:33:02 --- quit: nal1 (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.09.10